Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[londonmidland]

810022 suffered from brake issues. It does beg the question as to just why there are so many brake issues with the 810s?

 

[50002Superb]

810022 suffered from brake issues. It does beg the question as to just why there are so many brake issues with the 810s?

Dragging the rear wheels the technician said

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 19:17 ==

A Meridian has just turned up

 

[Dave61]

On my way to Birmingham yesterday (Saturday) I passed Etches Park on the way into Derby and was surprised at how few units were parked up. I know it was a Saturday daytime so most should have been out earning their daily (or training runs or whatever) crust but there were just 3 810's and 3 222's (one of them was missing one cab unit) that I could see. In the past there would be many units parked up and unless they were hiding behind the closed doors of the maintenance buildings there does not seem to be much spare for any breakdowns...

 

[Amos390]

Both the next two (Sheffield and Notts) have passed us.

We have been told that an engineer is coming out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 18:02 ==

They can’t get it going so are going to deboard us at West Hampstead Thameslink.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 19:04 ==

Nearly two hours later and we’ve made it to….West Hampstead Thameslink and been de boarded

RailRecord seems to have attributed the cancellation as just NM - Brake System Fault, no further breakdown

 

[BJames]

Dragging the rear wheels the technician said

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 19:17 ==

A Meridian has just turned up

Looks like this is the 1D48 1905 service from St Pancras, but on National Rail it seems that it was cancelled at St Pancras? So I assume came in empty for you all. On another thread it's mentioned the 1835 unfortunately was also cancelled at Cricklewood - did your train make an additional stop there too?

Hope you make it to your destination soon!

 

[50002Superb]

Looks like this is the 1D48 1905 service from St Pancras, but on National Rail it seems that it was cancelled at St Pancras? So I assume came in empty for you all. On another thread it's mentioned the 1835 unfortunately was also cancelled at Cricklewood - did your train make an additional stop there too?

Hope you make it to your destination soon!

It came into West Hampstead Thameslink empty which I thought was strange.

We didn’t stop at Cricklewood.

Will be interesting to see if we stop at Kettering as the original was due to but a 360 also stopped at West Hampstead to take passengers there.

 

[Wyrleybart]

If 810015 hadn't had the TPWS intervention at Elstow then two more of EMR's fleet would have been in traffic today.

 

[InTheEastMids]

If 810015 hadn't had the TPWS intervention at Elstow then two more of EMR's fleet would have been in traffic today.

I think this a very simplistic take on what is clearly a complex investigation. My layperson's reading of the interim report suggests RSSB think a combination of a fault with the AWS magnet on the track, and the train crew's response to an unexpected AWS alarm might be the issue why it came to a stand i.e. it doesn't look like they think there was a fault with the train itself.

Back on topic: Only 3 Cl810s seem to be in service today ("Normal" seems to be 5-6).
There are extra Cl222 out (looks like 15) so no cancellations yet, thankfully.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think this a very simplistic take on what is clearly a complex investigation. My layperson's reading of the interim report suggests RSSB think a combination of a fault with the AWS magnet on the track, and the train crew's response to an unexpected AWS alarm might be the issue why it came to a stand i.e. it doesn't look like they think there was a fault with the train itself.

Back on topic: Only 3 Cl810s seem to be in service today ("Normal" seems to be 5-6).
There are extra Cl222 out (looks like 15) so no cancellations yet, thankfully.

Yes 810010 810011 and 810016

 

[DannyMich2018]

Yes 810010 810011 and 810016

014 too supposed to be out but failed problem with doors before working it's first service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This is unfortunately a "known" issue with the 80x family. This time of year, having a set with regen braking is always a pain, as at 10mph the brakes release and then reapply with the friction brake. In slippy conditions this often causes a slide, and at a very crucial time in the station stop, especially when accurate stopping is required. I myself have had close calls in past couple of years and talking to colleagues im not alone. I'm not quite sure why regen brakes can't be switched off fleet wide throughout Autumn.

Surprised that is compliant to group standards but then we have GSMR radios that dont work when power is lost to the OLE.

 

[810013]

Do we know if 008/009 are being Brought to Passenger Standard Currently?

Surely The more units they have available for each day The better for redundancy if a unit fails out in service and they can use any unit for Driver training

 

[Amos390]

I have just noticed on diagrams in Derby that the 5S00 that has been sat in Chadd for a very long time (and I believe was 810008/009) is currently on the move back into Derby, can anyone confirm that it was just 810008/009 in Chadd and if so, that move is the both of them?

Edit: Looked on Derby camera on Railcam, can definitely see at least 810 in platform (stopped quite far back too so I wonder if there is another unit at the front), too far to tell which one though

 

[liamf656]

As far as I know it was just 008/009 in Chad Sidings, and have been used for coupling training for a while now. Both will need to return to Newton Aycliffe for work to be done as the interiors are unfinished, but when that happens I don't know

 

[InvHst]

Any truth in the rumours coming out that some 222s are having lease extended due to the 810 introduction

 

[DannyMich2018]

Any truth in the rumours coming out that some 222s are having lease extended due to the 810 introduction

Almost certain.
Currently there are 9 available 810s which usually covers 6 diagrams (810006, 010-014, 016, 018 and 022) it's very unlikely a 7th diagram could run plus we have units 015 and 019 which have carried passengers not available. So 6/9 is best for now, there's no new passenger ready units available so the only way any more 222s can go is if the timetable gets reduced again. Our friend Liamf656 here will know more.
Spare ex Avanti or Grand Central 222s are also rumoured but staff need training on them and most likely needed clearing on the southern section of route.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Any truth in the rumours coming out that some 222s are having lease extended due to the 810 introduction

Almost certain.
Currently there are 9 available 810s which usually covers 6 diagrams (810006, 010-014, 016, 018 and 022) it's very unlikely a 7th diagram could run plus we have units 015 and 019 which have carried passengers not available. So 6/9 is best for now, there's no new passenger ready units available so the only way any more 222s can go is if the timetable gets reduced again. Our friend Liamf656 here will know more.

100% agree with this. It's certainly something that the acting MD of EMR has mentioned as an option in public media. It becomes the only option assuming that yesterday's announcements confirm that the ex-Avanti 221s will go direct to XC, and the 4 off-lease 180s, or what's left of them, are to GC.

Or, to put it another way, if the EMR service was allowed to collapse and one of the many speculative ideas was taken up, it would shatter everything that the Govt are trying to project with GBR - i.e. competence. Politically, this could also "infect" other policy areas ("If they can't even run a train service, how can they defend us from the Russians, USA and especially the French?").

12 diagrams are being run by the residual ~18 Cl222 that are still with EMR. That's low utilisation by historic Cl222 standards so could a few be let go? Perhaps, but that brings back the fragility that the new MD said he would banish (e.g. Monday, only 3 Cl810 were in use so 15 Cl222 were needed, hard to see that happening if EMR were down to 15-16 Cl222). Plus I think at least one more diagram is needed to fully deliver the normal EMR IC timetable before we start luxury talk of 10-car services.

So it needs at least another 13 daily Cl810 diagrams, which points to somewhere between 23-25 sets accepted and in service. That could easily slip to 2028 given the way things have gone. Especially if the idea is to bring back peak-time 10-car services sooner.

 

[NCT]

I can imagine growing grumblings inside the corridors of Holyrood.

(I, and evidently many others, have lost track of the proliferation of spin-off threads. A direct consequence of this seems that we simply expect management to come and do the clean-up)

 

[STINT47]

If EMR services colapse isn't this a good thing for the government and GBR?

In a years time when we have gone through the pain and things are starting to improve the government can say look at what public ownership cam do. It's turned round a failing privat sector company.

I have often wondered if the two worst TOCs XC and EMR also being the last to return to public ownership is a coincidence.

 

[DaveyJones]

I have often wondered if the two worst TOCs XC and EMR also being the last to return to public ownership is a coincidence.

I think they're genuinely the last Franchises Awarded

"Today (19 September 2023) we have awarded a National Rail Contract to First Trenitalia to continue operating the West Coast Partnership, providing West Coast train services as Avanti West Coast. This contract, starting on 15 October 2023, will have a core term of 3 years and a maximum possible term of 9 years. After 3 years, the contract can be terminated at any point with 3 months’ notice at my discretion"
https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...and-cross-country-rail-operator-direct-awards

"Today we have awarded a National Rail Contract to Arriva UK Trains Ltd to continue operating the Cross Country rail services. This contract, starting on 15 October 2023, will have a core term of 4 years and a maximum possible term of 8 years. After 4 years, the contract can be terminated at any point with 3 months’ notice at my discretion."

And EMR got 4 years minimum in 2022 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/abellio-east-midlands-limited-2022-rail-contract)

 

[InTheEastMids]

If EMR services colapse isn't this a good thing for the government and GBR?

I cordially disagree. The problem for Govt of it happening now is that Govt cannot claim to have been unaware (1) that the 810s were very late; (2) that EMR was having problems delivering its IC service as far back as Summer 2025 and (3) knew that the service was crumbling in Summer 2026.

So to then feebly go "Our hands are tied. What on earth do you expect us to do? We're only the Government!" and then allow 222s off to Scotland after having sent 8 Cl221 off to XC would just look staggeringly incompetent.

On reflection, perhaps part of the reason DfT might have signed off on the Cl221 transfer to XC might be growing confidence that they won't be needed to rescue EMR?

 

[WesternLancer]

I cordially disagree. The problem for Govt of it happening now is that Govt cannot claim to have been unaware (1) that the 810s were very late; (2) that EMR was having problems delivering its IC service as far back as Summer 2025 and (3) knew that the service was crumbling in Summer 2026.

So to then feebly go "Our hands are tied. What on earth do you expect us to do? We're only the Government!" and then allow 222s off to Scotland after having sent 8 Cl221 off to XC would just look staggeringly incompetent.

On reflection, perhaps part of the reason DfT might have signed off on the Cl221 transfer to XC might be growing confidence that they won't be needed to rescue EMR?

Further to your post I noticed this on BBC East Mids - trying to make sure they don't get the blame for poor service when they take it over?

East Midlands Railway (EMR) told to improve ahead of renationalisation

The government expects the operator to transfer into public ownership by the end of 2027.

www.bbc.co.uk

partial extract of the article:

• • 12 October 2026

East Midlands Railway (EMR) has been told by the government it needs to take "immediate action" to improve its performance before the service is renationalised.
The Department for Transport (DfT) said it was expecting the rail operator to transfer into public ownership by the end of 2027.
Problems with EMR's new Aurora (Class 810) fleet led to months of delays, cancellations and overcrowding on services, as well as strike action by RMT union members.
The government has said the operator needs to do everything it can to resolve the issues as quickly as possible, to give passengers a "more reliable" service.
Renationalisation is part of the government's plan to improve rail infrastructure, cut train delays and improve experiences for passengers.

 

[cduncan]

Two of Grand Central 221s will be on a short-term lease to EMR, with these going into service probably in December. Full tender notice: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/097228-2026

 

[midland1]

Two of Grand Central 221s will be on a short-term lease to EMR, with these going into service probably in December. Full tender notice: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/097228-2026

Will get my camera ready for a shot of them. at Wigston south Jn.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Two of Grand Central 221s will be on a short-term lease to EMR, with these going into service probably in December. Full tender notice: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/097228-2026

Well spotted!

Further to your post I noticed this on BBC East Mids - trying to make sure they don't get the blame for poor service when they take it over?

My trusting soul would never think that they are playing both ends. Beat up current EMR to manage down expectations and then claim credit as and when things improve

 

[Trainman40083]

Will get my camera ready for a shot of them. at Wigston south Jn.

I keep seeing them in Derby area, off to Central Rivers for maintenance

 

[43096]

I can imagine growing grumblings inside the corridors of Holyrood.

And relief, too, that they won’t have to pay for two fleets of trains for the same work for as long.

 

[liamf656]

Photo of unit T9 as it heads into Chaddesden Sidings, making use of the depot whistle, before returning shortly after

 

[Mikey C]

Further to your post I noticed this on BBC East Mids - trying to make sure they don't get the blame for poor service when they take it over?

East Midlands Railway (EMR) told to improve ahead of renationalisation

The government expects the operator to transfer into public ownership by the end of 2027.

www.bbc.co.uk

partial extract of the article:

Handy for the Government to have a private operator to blame. If the same thing happens under GBR, it'll be more difficult to pass the political buck!

 

[WesternLancer]

Handy for the Government to have a private operator to blame. If the same thing happens under GBR, it'll be more difficult to pass the political buck!

I tend to agree