Class 175s to GWR

[John Hardee]

Generally I see banners put over the entrances saying do not board, but I've only seen a few trains on text in this way and no clue if 175s are doing the same.
So you could physically press the open button, but you'd need to duck under the banner to get on (and if anyone was watching you'd probably get shouted at).

Is no banners on GWR just the guard keeping a keen eye and having a word if anyone attempts to.

The PIS screens don’t advertise then however and have a message about keeping back

 

[REVUpminster]

Can only see 006 in passenger service and 114+002 out and about.

Regarding 197s. Why did TFW think they needed them? Why did GWR not take them from TFW; probably because they thought the 769s were the answer and the better/greener solution to replace the 166s/165, which Bristol, Plymouth, and Exeter would have got.

 

[3RDGEN]

Can only see 006 in passenger service and 114+002 out and about.

Regarding 197s. Why did TFW think they needed them? Why did GWR not take them from TFW; probably because they thought the 769s were the answer and the better/greener solution to replace the 166s/165, which Bristol, Plymouth, and Exeter would have got.

TfW needed a replacement for the 158's so they decided to replace 158 & 175's with a single fleet which makes perfect sense, shame they bought junk to achieve it and didn't provide suitable depot capacity but there you go.

GWR/DfT didn't need or want the 175's when released by TfW, I suspect they wanted the TfW 15x fleets instead however they haven't become available so the 175's were the only solution available, doesn't mean it was a good solution. If you really want the 769's then good luck to you but I suggest you go and read the thread regarding 769's at Northern, they would have been even worse.

 

[Concorde9289]

Can only see 006 in passenger service and 114+002 out and about.

Regarding 197s. Why did TFW think they needed them? Why did GWR not take them from TFW; probably because they thought the 769s were the answer and the better/greener solution to replace the 166s/165, which Bristol, Plymouth, and Exeter would have got.

011 also out on 2C18

 

[XFeed]

TfW needed a replacement for the 158's so they decided to replace 158 & 175's with a single fleet which makes perfect sense, shame they bought junk to achieve it and didn't provide suitable depot capacity but there you go.

GWR/DfT didn't need or want the 175's when released by TfW, I suspect they wanted the TfW 15x fleets instead however they haven't become available so the 175's were the only solution available, doesn't mean it was a good solution. If you really want the 769's then good luck to you but I suggest you go and read the thread regarding 769's at Northern, they would have been even worse.

I totally agree about lack of 197 depot capacity especially at Chester and I often wonder if TfW and CAF may have been a bit to over confident in their belief that being new the 197s would be super reliable and need less out of course visits to Chester, which hasn't been the case.

When I was involved in 175 and 197s here are some numbers that might put capacity at Chester into perspective, the maximum number of units permitted on depot at any one time was 13 or 14 and this number included all under maintenance on depot and this was fine for the 27 strong fleet of 175s as the remainder were then stabled at Canton, Holyhead, Carmarthen, Shrewsbury sometimes Fishguard and the middle yard when required.
Now there is a 77 strong fleet of 197s with around 21 of this number for Machynlleth and the Cambrian, when the changeover happens, leaving 56 units with Chester based maintenance requirements which includes 26 three car units nearly the entire original 175 fleet size. I also don't envisage Machynlleth carrying out major overhaul work on the Cambrian fleet so those units are going to be returned to Chester also for this I imagine, increasing the pressure on the depot even more.

Now back to 175s

 

[RPI]

I am sure the passengers will agree with you about a two hour gap at Newquay and Barnstaple as they pass Laira and wonder what all those trains are doing there.

I'm not sure how it has any relevance to a car striking a level crossing in Camborne or a failed 158 on the Barny line, as has been pointed out. Whilst the 175's are far from perfect , you can't blame every delay on them.

 

[The exile]

I'm not sure how it has any relevance to a car striking a level crossing in Camborne or a failed 158 on the Barny line, as has been pointed out. Whilst the 175's are far from perfect , you can't blame every delay on them.

And, to be somewhat nit-picking, the number of people affected by a two-hour gap at Barnstaple who have either just seen, or are going to see, a line-up of 175s at Laira is pretty small. (As a proportion of those affected, Newquay probably slightly larger)

 

[RPI]

And, to be somewhat nit-picking, the number of people affected by a two-hour gap at Barnstaple who have either just seen, or are going to see, a line-up of 175s at Laira is pretty small. (As a proportion of those affected, Newquay probably slightly larger)

Probably zero

 

[REVUpminster]

You can defend GWR all you like. If passengers knew there were two passenger trains operating out of 18 they wouldn't be happy. I don't think Newquay, where the new train and service was introduced last December has seen one since 29 August when 115 was on the diagram.

 

[The exile]

Surprisingly enough, I would imagine that GWR would quite like it if:
1) they hadn’t bee forced to ditch the HSTs
2) they hadn’t been forced to ditch the 769s
3) the 175s hadn’t been left to moulder for so long
4) the 175s actually worked.
The only one of those that they have any influence over is no 4) and I can’t imagine all their staff are sitting around drinking tea and placing bets as to what will fail next.
We are where we are….

 

[BillStampy]

Surprisingly enough, I would imagine that GWR would quite like it if:
1) they hadn’t bee forced to ditch the HSTs
2) they hadn’t been forced to ditch the 769s
3) the 175s hadn’t been left to moulder for so long
4) the 175s actually worked.
The only one of those that they have any influence over is no 4) and I can’t imagine all their staff are sitting around drinking tea and placing bets as to what will fail next.
We are where we are….

If some of the units recently are anything to go by, they're making good progress on number 4. They've just gotten another unit passed out on their milage and gotten a 2nd diagram reinstated for 175 usage today - so fingers crossed more positive stuff over the next 2 months!
Presumably they're using the reliable units too to carry on with some more training for the Exeter crews, as that needs to be sorted too!

 

[RPI]

You can defend GWR all you like. If passengers knew there were two passenger trains operating out of 18 they wouldn't be happy. I don't think Newquay, where the new train and service was introduced last December has seen one since 29 August when 115 was on the diagram.

There's a difference between "defending GWR" (which trust me, I've no interest in doing/not doing) or just actually using a bit of common sense and reading the room.

 

[fgwrich]

There's a difference between "defending GWR" (which trust me, I've no interest in doing/not doing) or just actually using a bit of common sense and reading the room.

Agreed, the hyperbole in this thread sometimes is ridiculous. Sure the introduction has not been smooth, but when @Jrocks and his team gets to grip with the fleet they will be a valuable addition to the West Country fleet.

 

[BillStampy]

Some positive news from today, 175011 and 006 both survived without any major issues that I can see from RTT.
002 and 114 have done well today on their runs between Exeter and Plymouth, presumably Exeter crew training rather than milage considering both units have been in service recently without major issues.
007 and 112 both came off Laira into Plymouth but neither went anywhere.

 

[Rhydgaled]

You have to wonder why previous operators got rid of them when they hadn't even completed a half life of service.

Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) didn't get rid of them, and I'm not sure First North Western (FNW) and TPE really did either. I probably still lived in England back then and was certainly not aware of the 175s before they started to appear in South Wales, but wasn't it a case of franchise boundary remapping, with the North Wales Coast Line (together with the 175s to (help) run it) transferring from FNW into the Prism/NatEx. Wales & Borders Trains franchise? I don't claim to have any more than a layman's / interested bystander's understanding of either the process or the politics that surrounded the end of the ATW franchise and the award of the 'Operator & Development Partner' contract to KeolisAmey which (trading as Transport for Wales Rail Services) replaced ATW from late 2018. All I know is that TfW promised to replace the entire ATW fleet; not just the 175s but the whole lot (except, perhaps, the class 67 locomotives, although TfW today uses higher-numbered 67s than ATW's original trio (67001-003)) - maybe that helped them win the contract?

Regarding 197s. Why did TFW think they needed them?

TfW needed a replacement for the 158's so they decided to replace 158 & 175's with a single fleet which makes perfect sense, shame they bought junk to achieve it and didn't provide suitable depot capacity but there you go.

ATW/TfW needed something to boost capacity as well (far more urgently than replacing the 158s) and ATW already had all 27 class 175s, which were typically run as single units (ie. just 2 or 3 coach trains) on busy routes such as Manchester-Swansea, because they had such a limited fleet. The 175s are unable to work in multiple with other types, so there is an argument (not necessarily a sufficiently strong one) for replacing them in favour of a uniform fleet rather than just supplementing them. I still think supplementing them (and, in hindsight, not with brand-new DMUs, but with bi-modes or cascades from elsewhere) would have been the better plan.

 

[fgwrich]

Some positive news from today, 175011 and 006 both survived without any major issues that I can see from RTT.
002 and 114 have done well today on their runs between Exeter and Plymouth, presumably Exeter crew training rather than milage considering both units have been in service recently without major issues.
007 and 112 both came off Laira into Plymouth but neither went anywhere.

The only reason for 011 picking up a minor slight delay in the Blackpool Driers / Burngullow area was as a result of trespassers, resulting in an emergency stop.