Eurostar security

[PeterDR]

There's been much discussion here about the impediment that border controls put on Eurostar operations, but what about the security check.

When using Le Shuttle or cross channel ferries, I've not has to go through a metal detector and have by bags x-rayed. Therefore, what is the reason for the more onerous security check on Eurostar, and could it be rationalised?

Was it a concern in relation to Northern Irish related terrorism in the mid 90s; in which case surely a car could carry a much greater threat into the tunnel?
A response to complaints by airlines that their new rival wouldn't have to subject their customers to what air passengers are?

Any insights would be much appreciated.

 

[williamn]

Just security theatre. It used to be spot checks rather than every bag.

 

[Starmill]

They do search cars as part of Tunnel security. They just don't have to search every single vehicle.

 

[Gaelan]

They do search cars as part of Tunnel security. They just don't have to search every single vehicle.

So why do they have to search every single Eurostar passenger?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why do they have to search every single Eurostar passenger?

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

 

[AlterEgo]

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

Eurostar didn't have full airport security scanning every passenger until much later than this. I'm unsure of the exact date but the threat would be much more along the lines of post-Sept 11th threats than the IRA.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar didn't have full airport security scanning every passenger until much later than this.

It certainly had the full setup - I used it regularly around 2000. However when busy it often ushered people past to shorten the queues. I can't remember if it had metal detectors then though, but it certainly had X-ray machines.

I'm unsure of the exact date but the threat would be much more along the lines of post-Sept 11th threats than the IRA.

I believe it was post-9/11 when they stopped ushering people past, yes.

 

[brooklynbound]

When first opened at Waterloo I think check-in was 20 minutes before the train and very quickly it was extended to half an hour. I remember asking Eurostar management why are they pretending to be an airline rather than a train service and they said they had been forced to do it.

 

[rvdborgt]

I believe it was post-9/11 when they stopped ushering people past, yes.

I think I've been ushered past in Brussels at least once post-9/11.

 

[StephenHunter]

Another concern has been illegal immigration and smuggling. Security against that is often intelligence-led or watching for suspicious behaviour. There must be X-ray scanners at the terminals for lorries, I think.

 

[Thames99]

At St Pancras the bottleneck seems to be passport checking rather than putting luggage through the scanners. I don't think there would be any advantage in bypassing the scanners as far as speeding things up.

 

[Taunton]

When first opened at Waterloo I think check-in was 20 minutes before the train and very quickly it was extended to half an hour. I remember asking Eurostar management why are they pretending to be an airline rather than a train service and they said they had been forced to do it.

I think it was initially 15 minutes, then extended to 30 minutes around the time the first stage of CTRL/HS1 to Fawkham Junction opened. As this cut 15 minutes off journey time, the whole benefit of that investment was wasted by a single security decision.

The bottleneck does seem to be passports rather than luggage security. The latter is done by Eurostar's own staff, and they can set up what they like, although at St pancras they are constrained by space available, which seems less than there used to be at Waterloo. Passports are done by government officials, and you just have to suck up how many (or few) they choose to provide.

A further delay factor is managements who set "targets". These often have an amount of flexibility to be achieved, say 95% of passengers processed through security within 20 minutes. The staff thus feel that as long as they achieve the 20 minute value, they have "done their job". It's easy to tell the normal 20 minute queue ending point, so if things look shorter than that some staff can get sent for an extra tea break, still keeping things within the 20 minute limit and thus still "doing their job" as stipulated, and management can claim "all targets are met"..

 

[NCT]

At St Pancras the bottleneck seems to be passport checking rather than putting luggage through the scanners. I don't think there would be any advantage in bypassing the scanners as far as speeding things up.

In a way it would. The space freed up could be repurposed for additional passport gates (as long as the increased border staff level can be provided).

 

[30907]

There's been much discussion here about the impediment that border controls put on Eurostar operations, but what about the security check.

When using Le Shuttle or cross channel ferries, I've not has to go through a metal detector and have by bags x-rayed.

Purely FYI both were done at Santander port recently.

Therefore, what is the reason for the more onerous security check on Eurostar, and could it be rationalised?

Was it a concern in relation to Northern Irish related terrorism in the mid 90s; in which case surely a car could carry a much greater threat into the tunnel?

Suicide bombers weren't in the picture back then.

 

[brooklynbound]

Bag x-rayed at Portsmouth when taking ferry with my car to St Malo. Outbound checks seem to have increased dramatically at Portsmouth over the last 18 months. Had the car inspected 3 times in 3 trips though the x-ray was just once. What I find interesting is that it's not done by actual Customs officers, they seem to be contractors who aren't quite sure what to do but with a Customs officer nearby.

 

[bkhtele]

Spot checks are the best solution perhaps aided by sniffer dogs, we dont seach & scan everyone @ London tube stations!

 

[duesselmartin]

Passenger scanning

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

 

[RT4038]

Passenger scanning

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

The Enterprise does not go through a long undersea tunnel.

You do not address the other part of the post of @Bletchleyite - Who is going to sign off removing the checks and why would they take on that responsibility and effort? Because it would likely be an onerous task, for little or no gain for that person.

 

[StephenHunter]

Passenger scanning

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

The IRA generally preferred car or truck bombings.

 

[duesselmartin]

There was reasonable amount of incidences as I recall.
As to responsibility. It lies with the terrorists. Full stop. If one target is unavailable, a terrorist chooses another soft target. The only exception I eould make is the airline industry due to the massive impact.
Also there are plenty of tunnels lines in Europe of significant lenght.

As to why bother? Not only smoother travel but trusting people with having freedom of trust. An element governments has reduced on a continious basis over the last 25 years.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Passenger scanning

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

There were luggage checks on the Enterprise in the 1980s and early 90s (not sure precisely when they disappeared). However, they were only at the terminal stations. (I can recall boarding at Drogheda on many occasions and never experiencing anything more than a ticket check.) Clearly this limited their effectiveness (I'm not the biggest fan of the term "security theatre", but this does seem like a case where it was applicable). There was a bombing on an Enterprise arriving at Dublin Connolly around autumn 1994 - carried out by one of the loyalist groups, not the IRA, and indeed while the latter was on ceasefire - and I recall it being stated that the bomber must have boarded at an intermediate stop. (Fortunately, only the detonator went off.)

Overall there were quite a number of attacks on the railways, including the Enterprise (for instance, there was a fatal bombing of an Enterprise near Central Junction around 1978, which may have triggered the aforementioned checks; there was also an Enterprise derailed by a bomb on the tracks in the 1970s, fortunately without serious injury, and a number of CIÉ Mark 2s destroyed by a bombing at Newry station in 1985) as well as internal NIR services, freight trains and the infrastructure itself (e.g. the incessant attacks on the cross-border route in the late 1980s/early 1990s). Of course, not many of these were amenable to being addressed by passenger checks at stations.

 

[oscar654]

There are scanners of some sort at the channel tunnel from memory, as you are instructed not to drive through until your exit is clear. I’ve had my car searched on several occasions and also swabbed for traces of explosives.

 

[jopsuk]

the most theatrical is Harwich. If you're taking Stena from Harwich to Hoek van Holland as a foot passenger, you have to pass through a metal detector and get your bags x-rayed. There's very little that you're not allowed to carry. Vehicles and passengers in vehicles mainly get no scans.
Coming the other way? Nothing. As a foot passenger, on boarding all you get is a ticket check and exit passport control. I think they might have facility for spot checks but I've not seen it used.

 

[nbdm]

There are scanners of some sort at the channel tunnel from memory, as you are instructed not to drive through until your exit is clear. I’ve had my car searched on several occasions and also swabbed for traces of explosives.

I've had my car checked a handful of times at the tunnel & various ferry routes, similarly driver & steering wheel often gets swabbed.
All UK ports have radiation detectors too (the yellow upright structures you drive through) - at airports these are white and look like bulky doors.

Always a bit odd that you can go through the huge alpine tunnels on the continent with no checks but Eurostar has x-ray/metal detectors! But then again, Spanish HSR has overt security checks like Eurostar too.
I wonder which approach the new German-Danish tunnel will adopt when it opens, likely very little as it is planned to be a free-flow motorway as well as rail tunnel, like the Øresund bridge.

As said above, no politician is going to wind it back. Look at how long it took TSA in the US to allow people to keep shoes on!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Always a bit odd that you can go through the huge alpine tunnels on the continent with no checks but Eurostar has x-ray/metal detectors! But then again, Spanish HSR has overt security checks like Eurostar too.

This is the nub of the issue. The UK at the time had issues with the IRA. Spain at the time had issues with ETA, the Basque separatist group. Same issue in effect (the question of whether part of the country should be part of it and resulting terrorism), same "solution".

 

[MaidaVale]

At St Pancras the bottleneck seems to be passport checking rather than putting luggage through the scanners.

I actually find it's the opposite. The main bottleneck in my regular experience seems to be people backing up at the ticket gates awaiting security, and then re-gathering all of their belongings directly on the conveyor rather than taking their tray and moving aside to let others flow through. This then results in people "queueing" (more like crowding) back to the gates to the point where nobody else is able to scan their tickets. After security, I usually find the queue for passport control often non-existent and post-security to being finished with passport control usually takes no more than 5 minutes including both exit and entry.

Also there are plenty of tunnels lines in Europe of significant lenght.

I think the concern more lies that if the channel tunnel is severely damaged or destroyed, that essentially severs the UK's only "land" connection to mainland Europe. Whilst there would still be regular ferries and of course flights so it wouldn't exactly make us genuinely cut-off, it'd be a much more symbolic loss than your average rail tunnel, which probably makes it more of a likely target.

I find the security arduous and mostly pointless, and would personally much rather see it removed (along with passport controls, but that's another issue), however I can fully see why actively removing it in the current day after decades of operation would be a very difficult move and would potentially send out the wrong signals to potential bad-actors, especially if it wasn't in conjunction with also removing border formalities which would essentially make the Eurostar akin to that of a regular cross-border European train service that we see across the continent that function essentially no different to that of a domestic one, and possibly much less of a viable target.

 

[Gordon]

Just to add my two penn'orth.

It was indeed IRA threat (and fire regs) not 9/11 that created all the train design etc security requirements (enclosed parking places for Estar at overseas terminals etc) for the Channel tunnel and killed off the nightstar.

It will not be reversed now as scanning etc has become the norm (and there is nowadays more strict security on platforms for French TGV than in the 'old days' ) - for example at cruise ship terminals

 

[rvdborgt]

It will not be reversed now as scanning etc has become the norm (and there is nowadays more strict security on platforms for French TGV than in the 'old days' )

I haven't seen any security for French TGVs. Ticket gates, yes, but no baggage scanning etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I haven't seen any security for French TGVs. Ticket gates, yes, but no baggage scanning etc.

They briefly did it at some stations for Thalys (Eurostar Red) after those knife attacks a while back but I believe it's gone again now. It's only standard in Spain.

 

[trebor79]

I actually find it's the opposite. The main bottleneck in my regular experience seems to be people backing up at the ticket gates awaiting security, and then re-gathering all of their belongings directly on the conveyor rather than taking their tray and moving aside to let others flow through. This then results in people "queueing" (more like crowding) back to the gates to the point where nobody else is able to scan their tickets. After security, I usually find the queue for passport control often non-existent and post-security to being finished with passport control usually takes no more than 5 minutes including both exit and entry.

Having travelled a few times including today (currently trundling through Belgium) there’s actually nowhere to move aside with your tray.
The security check is utterly pointless anyway. I’ve got a safety razor and a load of spare blades for it. No issue.

I detest the St Pancras experience. It’s far too cramped. Once you’re through security etc there’s nowhere to sit until the previous train leaves, and a very poor selection of food and drink.
It worked ok back in the day when you could turn up 15 minutes before departure, but it’s inadequate for the current setup.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 18:08 ==

the most theatrical is Harwich. If you're taking Stena from Harwich to Hoek van Holland as a foot passenger, you have to pass through a metal detector and get your bags x-rayed. There's very little that you're not allowed to carry. Vehicles and passengers in vehicles mainly get no scans.
Coming the other way? Nothing. As a foot passenger, on boarding all you get is a ticket check and exit passport control. I think they might have facility for spot checks but I've not seen it used.

I’ve used Harwich a lot. Only had my bag scanned once. It is indeed completely pointless.

The ferry is my favoured route too and from work HQ. Alas timings didn’t work this time, hence I’m on this interminable Eurostar.
Quite looking forward to Business Premier on the way back though (no other seats left)!