Eurostar security

[PeterDR]

There's been much discussion here about the impediment that border controls put on Eurostar operations, but what about the security check.

When using Le Shuttle or cross channel ferries, I've not has to go through a metal detector and have by bags x-rayed. Therefore, what is the reason for the more onerous security check on Eurostar, and could it be rationalised?

Was it a concern in relation to Northern Irish related terrorism in the mid 90s; in which case surely a car could carry a much greater threat into the tunnel?
A response to complaints by airlines that their new rival wouldn't have to subject their customers to what air passengers are?

Any insights would be much appreciated.

 

[williamn]

Just security theatre. It used to be spot checks rather than every bag.

 

[Starmill]

They do search cars as part of Tunnel security. They just don't have to search every single vehicle.

 

[Gaelan]

They do search cars as part of Tunnel security. They just don't have to search every single vehicle.

So why do they have to search every single Eurostar passenger?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why do they have to search every single Eurostar passenger?

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

 

[AlterEgo]

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

Eurostar didn't have full airport security scanning every passenger until much later than this. I'm unsure of the exact date but the threat would be much more along the lines of post-Sept 11th threats than the IRA.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar didn't have full airport security scanning every passenger until much later than this.

It certainly had the full setup - I used it regularly around 2000. However when busy it often ushered people past to shorten the queues. I can't remember if it had metal detectors then though, but it certainly had X-ray machines.

I'm unsure of the exact date but the threat would be much more along the lines of post-Sept 11th threats than the IRA.

I believe it was post-9/11 when they stopped ushering people past, yes.

 

[brooklynbound]

When first opened at Waterloo I think check-in was 20 minutes before the train and very quickly it was extended to half an hour. I remember asking Eurostar management why are they pretending to be an airline rather than a train service and they said they had been forced to do it.

 

[rvdborgt]

I believe it was post-9/11 when they stopped ushering people past, yes.

I think I've been ushered past in Brussels at least once post-9/11.

 

[StephenHunter]

Another concern has been illegal immigration and smuggling. Security against that is often intelligence-led or watching for suspicious behaviour. There must be X-ray scanners at the terminals for lorries, I think.

 

[Thames99]

At St Pancras the bottleneck seems to be passport checking rather than putting luggage through the scanners. I don't think there would be any advantage in bypassing the scanners as far as speeding things up.

 

[Taunton]

When first opened at Waterloo I think check-in was 20 minutes before the train and very quickly it was extended to half an hour. I remember asking Eurostar management why are they pretending to be an airline rather than a train service and they said they had been forced to do it.

I think it was initially 15 minutes, then extended to 30 minutes around the time the first stage of CTRL/HS1 to Fawkham Junction opened. As this cut 15 minutes off journey time, the whole benefit of that investment was wasted by a single security decision.

The bottleneck does seem to be passports rather than luggage security. The latter is done by Eurostar's own staff, and they can set up what they like, although at St pancras they are constrained by space available, which seems less than there used to be at Waterloo. Passports are done by government officials, and you just have to suck up how many (or few) they choose to provide.

A further delay factor is managements who set "targets". These often have an amount of flexibility to be achieved, say 95% of passengers processed through security within 20 minutes. The staff thus feel that as long as they achieve the 20 minute value, they have "done their job". It's easy to tell the normal 20 minute queue ending point, so if things look shorter than that some staff can get sent for an extra tea break, still keeping things within the 20 minute limit and thus still "doing their job" as stipulated, and management can claim "all targets are met"..

 

[NCT]

At St Pancras the bottleneck seems to be passport checking rather than putting luggage through the scanners. I don't think there would be any advantage in bypassing the scanners as far as speeding things up.

In a way it would. The space freed up could be repurposed for additional passport gates (as long as the increased border staff level can be provided).

 

[30907]

There's been much discussion here about the impediment that border controls put on Eurostar operations, but what about the security check.

When using Le Shuttle or cross channel ferries, I've not has to go through a metal detector and have by bags x-rayed.

Purely FYI both were done at Santander port recently.

Therefore, what is the reason for the more onerous security check on Eurostar, and could it be rationalised?

Was it a concern in relation to Northern Irish related terrorism in the mid 90s; in which case surely a car could carry a much greater threat into the tunnel?

Suicide bombers weren't in the picture back then.

 

[brooklynbound]

Bag x-rayed at Portsmouth when taking ferry with my car to St Malo. Outbound checks seem to have increased dramatically at Portsmouth over the last 18 months. Had the car inspected 3 times in 3 trips though the x-ray was just once. What I find interesting is that it's not done by actual Customs officers, they seem to be contractors who aren't quite sure what to do but with a Customs officer nearby.

 

[bkhtele]

Spot checks are the best solution perhaps aided by sniffer dogs, we dont seach & scan everyone @ London tube stations!

 

[duesselmartin]

Passenger scanning

It was set up that way because it was seen to be a high risk IRA target. Would you be the one to sign off on removing it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

 

[RT4038]

Passenger scanning

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

The Enterprise does not go through a long undersea tunnel.

You do not address the other part of the post of @Bletchleyite - Who is going to sign off removing the checks and why would they take on that responsibility and effort? Because it would likely be an onerous task, for little or no gain for that person.

 

[StephenHunter]

Passenger scanning

and yet that was not standard in Northern Ireland. Took the Enterprise several times in the 90s and never been checked.

The IRA generally preferred car or truck bombings.

 

[duesselmartin]

There was reasonable amount of incidences as I recall.
As to responsibility. It lies with the terrorists. Full stop. If one target is unavailable, a terrorist chooses another soft target. The only exception I eould make is the airline industry due to the massive impact.
Also there are plenty of tunnels lines in Europe of significant lenght.

As to why bother? Not only smoother travel but trusting people with having freedom of trust. An element governments has reduced on a continious basis over the last 25 years.