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Express coach proposed for north to south Wales link

TheSel

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I’ve read before that that wasn’t always the case, everyone swapped buses and the Crosville bus went back north and the Western bus went back south. I’m not familiar with how it operated so that may be wrong.
Generally the idea was that the vehicle would work through, but there were odd examples of vehicles returning whence they'd come. For example - a substitute vehicle may be of a type with which the 'other' driver was unfamiliar.

On one memorable occasion, a Crosville driver was - shall we be kind, and say 'reluctant' - to take over a stick box coach and insisted on taking his almost new semi-auto Leyland Leopard back "home" with him.
 
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Gareth1990

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Who on Earth is going to take that 0042 departure? Yes I know it’s for ferry traffic but even then, if your destination was Southwest Wales why wouldn’t you take the ferry from Rosslare?
 

Farigiraf

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if your destination was Southwest Wales why wouldn’t you take the ferry from Rosslare?
Getting to Rosslare for the 11.30pm ferry isn't too easy as there's no well-timed rail or bus service from Dublin. Going via Holyhead with a near-direct coach is a more comfortable option than changing in Wexford / Clarbeston Road or waiting for a few hours in Rosslare.
 

stuartn

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as is the 6/X6 in West Cumbria: everyone swaps buses and the buses themselves head back to where they were based.
That will be the 7/X7 (which were the 6/X6 many years ago before the route was cancelled by Cumbria Council). But the reasons are different with the 7/X7- it is to allow for inter-working with the M1 (Millom Town Service) for crew changeover, avoid crew working the M1 only all day, and avoid dead working to and from Barrow for the M1.
 

johncrossley

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What are the options for buying tickets for this service?

Book online at the website or telephone 03333 211 202 up to 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time. I wonder if that's 15 minutes before it leaves its first stop or 15 minutes before the scheduled departure of the stop you want to get on.
 

Roverebbw

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Who on Earth is going to take that 0042 departure? Yes I know it’s for ferry traffic but even then, if your destination was Southwest Wales why wouldn’t you take the ferry from Rosslare?
Students going back to Aberystwyth after a night out in bangor or coming back home from the North of England. Its the same with the bus from Carmarthen whic h leaves at 0215 which connect with the train from cardiff
 

endofthelines

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Who on Earth is going to take that 0042 departure? Yes I know it’s for ferry traffic but even then, if your destination was Southwest Wales why wouldn’t you take the ferry from Rosslare?
Not clear if the coach waits for the ferry (or vice versa as railsail used to do in the good old days) either. The FAQs seem to imply if you miss the coach, that's it: enjoy an overnight at Holyhead.
 

Jack Russell

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When Traws Cambria Service 701 (Bangor to Cardiff) was operated jointly between Crosville / Crosville Wales and National Welsh, the coaches operated end to end and the drivers changed at Aberystwyth during the simultaneous 45 minute or so comfort break. However, when National Welsh ceased trading in 1992, Tellings Golden Miller and then Rhondda Buses took on the southern section and the requirement to change coaches was introduced.
 

markymark2000

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Eyersey468

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Book online at the website or telephone 03333 211 202 up to 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time. I wonder if that's 15 minutes before it leaves its first stop or 15 minutes before the scheduled departure of the stop you want to get on.
At a guess it would be the stop that the passenger wants to board at
 

Belperpete

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At a guess it would be the stop that the passenger wants to board at
I suspect that it's tied in with the 15 minutes that you are required to be at the stop before departure time. However, a lot about this service is still very vague, but hopefully more details will be firmed up before it starts running.

UPDATE: the webpage now includes links to timetables.

These timetables specify where the bus stops are in each place. For Porthmadog it is The Australia (the town centre bus interchange), not the railway station. For Machynlleth it is the Red Lion, which again is in the town centre not the railway station.

In both cases, these stops are about a ten minute walk from the railway station. And as you have to be at the stop 15 minutes before departure, that is going to rule out some potentially useful connections. For example, there is a train from Birmingham that gets into Mach at 1139, and a Taith coach leaving Mach at 1156, but you ain't going to get from the railway station to the Red Lion in two minutes to be there 15 minutes before coach departure. With the initial promotional fares being so low, I might be tempted to chance it, but we wait to see what the regular fares are going to be.
 
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6Gman

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Few people from Bangor go for a night out in Bangor, let alone from Aberystwyth! That'll be a non-existent market, sadly.
Cariadon.



(Lovers. The two principal Welsh-speaking Universities are going to have "social" links.)
 

Rhydgaled

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must admit to being quite disappointed at the earliest departure from Dolgellau down south will still be the 7.02am T2 service closely followed the new service at 7.04am meaning you still can’t get an earlier train from Machynlleth before 8am towards Shrewsbury/birmingham.
Of course for Dolgellau in particular there might have been the option of the T3 to Barmouth (with M-F departures from Eldon Square on the T3 at 05:13 and 07:03 reaching Barmouth at 05:35 and 07:28 respectively) had TfW not withdrawn the early train from Barmouth (I forget whether that reached Machynlleth before 8am)?

I wonder why they've got it in a separate booking system rather than treating it as a train?
I was wondering that too; particularly since some TrawsCymru services already appear in some of TfW's PDF rail timetable booklets. Perhaps they've done it this way because TaithCymru isn't going to offer 'walk-up' services or flexible 'anytime' tickets, unlike rail?

It works if you have a simple A to B journey. However if you are looking to use it as just part of your journey it becomes opaque.
Agreed.

Knowing how sparse Welsh public transport is, I can't see that there will be many journeys involving it where multiple change points are viable, to be honest.
There are already multiple potential options a long-distance traveller could use. For example, starting with a TrawsCymru T5 from New Quay, depending on the relevant timetables, a passenger could change to TaithCymru at Aberaeron, to rail, TaithCymru or TrawsCymru (T2) at Aberystwyth, from one of those three to another in Machynlleth etc.

That said, my biggest objection to this whole TaithCymru is the current 'spareness' of the Welsh bus network. Assuming TaithCymru will require a subsidy, I think patching up the network of local bus services should be a far greater priority right now.

The Porthmadog to Machynlleth and Aberystwyth portion of the TaithCymru service parallels two rail routes so there are multiple options for any journey that needs to start with a connecting rail service.

The connectional time requirements will vary between users depending on their reasons for changing, whether that is speed, economy, convenience, tourism etc..

Denying the user the ability to self plan is seriously unhelpful.
Agreed.
 

Harpo

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These timetables specify where the bus stops are in each place. For Porthmadog it is The Australia (the town centre bus interchange), not the railway station. For Machynlleth it is the Red Lion, which again is in the town centre not the railway station.
The journey planner doesn’t detail the location of each stop. Right up to the point of payment for a ticket it is simply ‘Porthmadog to Machynlleth’, in exactly the same way that the rail journey would be offered by the self-same TfW website.
 

Polarbear

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One assumes that existing 1 bws and Traws Cymru tickets won’t be valid on these services? I can’t see anything on the website to confirm either way.
 

johncrossley

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One assumes that existing 1 bws and Traws Cymru tickets won’t be valid on these services? I can’t see anything on the website to confirm either way.

I don't see how that can be possible. Go to the online booking system and you can see that it tells you how many seats are left on each journey (up to 49). That means they have to account for each seat and there is no option to select anything else other than online payment. It is not like Scottish coaches where you can say that you have an Entitlement Card. The Traws Cymru day ticket is £7 so clearly it wouldn't make sense for coach fares to be £10 if a day ticket was valid.
 

Farigiraf

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Perhaps they've done it this way because TaithCymru isn't going to offer 'walk-up' services or flexible 'anytime' tickets, unlike rail?
The fares are technically 'flexible' since all fares are fixed price so you could just purchase a ticket 15 minutes before the service you want to take. It's not exactly walk-up but it's as close as you can get without the driver needing to sell tickets onboard.

The lack of any in-person purchase method isn't great though, as the userbase of this coach service will be a little different from the typical NatEx/Flix market where 95%+ prefer e-tickets. Telephone booking being the only option for those who can't use an app will probably deter some potential passengers. Could've at least offered to sell the tickets at railway ticket offices if not onboard the bus.



It is a bit strange that they've opted for a pricing system where tickets are only valid on a specific service, when the fares are all fixed anyway. Giving the fares a 24h validity alongside a compulsory reservations system might work better IMO, as it'd make it easier to enable ranger/rover/day ticket validity and allow people the option to book tickets in advance without committing to a specific service. The issue is that as long as services can get fully booked, you can never really offer truly flexible fares. Not sure how Ember resolve this - do they just not let you board the bus if you want to buy a ticket from the driver but there are no seats left onboard?
 
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johncrossley

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Not sure how Ember resolve this - do they just not let you board the bus if you want to buy a ticket from the driver but there are no seats left onboard?

Everybody boarding an Ember coach checks in, either by scanning a barcode or by telling them your name. The driver has a list of all passenger names on the driver's tablet. The computer knows where there they are going to and from. So when someone doesn't board then that seat can be immediately released for additional bookings. The system knows precisely how many seats are available between each stop so it is impossible to overbook. Passengers turning up without booking are only sold tickets, or let on for free with an Entitlement Card, if there are any spare seats for the whole journey according to the computer.

The way TfW are doing it means no need for the driver to know anything about quotas etc. All the driver needs to know is to only allow passengers on who have a valid booking for that service. No fancy computer system required on board.
 
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Statto

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The timetable has appeared on bustimes.org in the new TaithCymru section


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

My main takes.

It goes to/from Bangor station not the City Centre, which is disappointing given it has about an hour on layover in Bangor, it is a bit of a hike from the City Centre to the station (i know this as i've done the walk a few times). The departure times is that it's almost hourly with the T2 southbound but not northbound from Aberystwyth, the overnight services are operating every day as well

As for fares, £7 single Bangor-Aberystwyth, were as it's £4 on the T2 & the 1bws range of tickets are valid on the T2 but not this service
 
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johncrossley

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The lack of any in-person purchase method isn't great though, as the userbase of this coach service will be a little different from the typical NatEx/Flix market where 95%+ prefer e-tickets. Telephone booking being the only option for those who can't use an app will probably deter some potential passengers. Could've at least offered to sell the tickets at railway ticket offices if not onboard the bus.

Presumably there will be very few free passholders using this service, as they can use the regular TrawsCymru services, which are already quite decent. Therefore most passengers will be middle age or younger, so there won't be a concern about passengers not being tech savvy. The richer pensioner willing to pay for the coach is probably tech savvy. If I'm going to continue stereotyping, the few younger people that aren't tech savvy would typically be low income, non drivers, and would probably not want to pay the premium for the coach anyway.
 

317 forever

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What I wonder is whether the only differences are it using coaches and having fewer stops - or whether it uses different roads from the TrawsCymru bus routes?
 

markymark2000

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What I wonder is whether the only differences are it using coaches and having fewer stops - or whether it uses different roads from the TrawsCymru bus routes?
There will be some differences but not many. In Bangor I'd presume the coach would run via Holyhead Road/Treborth Road or Caernarfon Road rather than down Penrhos Road, Caernarfon to Porthmadog it would just stay on the A487 rather than doing the stupid T2 diversion via Criccieth, and in Aberystwyth it would stick on the A487 rather than diverting off via Commins Coch.
 

Polarbear

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What I wonder is whether the only differences are it using coaches and having fewer stops - or whether it uses different roads from the TrawsCymru bus routes?
There aren’t really too many alternative routes these coaches could take, away from the existing Traws Cymru routes.

Taking the T2, the express presumably wont travel via Ystyby Gwynedd or Criccieth. After Porthmadog, the route will be identical to the T2, aside from the two small diversions.
 

317 forever

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There aren’t really too many alternative routes these coaches could take, away from the existing Traws Cymru routes.

Taking the T2, the express presumably wont travel via Ystyby Gwynedd or Criccieth. After Porthmadog, the route will be identical to the T2, aside from the two small diversions.
OK thanks, I shall ride one for the vehicle, but not the whole route. I doubt I shall ride it over route T1 given that the route seems identical over that section.
 

Rhydgaled

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I doubt I shall ride it over route T1 given that the route seems identical over that section.
That isn't actually a given, since the various TrawsCymru services between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth don't follow an identical route throughout. The 'T1' itself alternates between journeys via Llanwnnen and journeys via Pencarreg between Carmarthen and Lampeter. Meanwhile; the 'T1A' (a once-daily service that travels via Tregaron instead of Aberaeron) manages to travel via Llanwnnen northbound but the southbound working serves Pencarreg instead. However, since Lampeter isn't served by TaithCymru, the new express coach service is more-likely to follow a similar route to the T1C and T1X, both of which are once-daily services and travel via Llandysul (although that's also not served by TaithCymru) instead of Lampeter. Without the constraints of intermediate stops, I do wonder what roads TaithCyrmu is likely to use between Aberaeron and Carmarthen.
 

oldman

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I don't know if it's true, but the map on bustimes.org shows it running from Dolgellau to Machynlleth via the A470 and Cemmaes Road rather than through Corris. They also show it stopping at the Clock in Machynlleth, like the T2, whereas the TFW timetable stops are the Red Lion and Wynnstay Arms. A bit confusing.
 

stevieinselby

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If it's registered as a coach rather than a bus then does that mean it can use whatever road is best on the day, rather than being required to stick to a specific route?
 

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