johncrossley
Established Member
No driver ticket sales which is good. No free passes is a sensible.
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Express coach proposed for north to south Wales link
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The overnight one is odd - there surely can't be that much demand for a 3 hour journey overnight, not enough for some decent sleep. Is that a positioning move to get the coach back to the depot I wonder?
I wonder why they've got it in a separate booking system rather than treating it as a train?
I wonder why they've got it in a separate booking system rather than treating it as a train?
Does anyone have a link to a traditional timetable for this? I can’t see to find a simple look-up version anywhere including bustimes or realtrain times.
I also see that this is pre-booked only with no pay on boarding option. It’s not making things easy.
I also see that this is pre-booked only with no pay on boarding option. It’s not making things easy.
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johncrossley
Established Member
Most passengers expect to book in advance for other long distance coaches sich as Flixbus and National Express even if it might be technically possible to pay on board. The regular buses are available for those who want to pay on board.
It says you can book up to 15 minutes before departure and it says you have to be at the stop 15 minutes before the booked time, presumably to allow them to run early if there is no one booked.
At least with National Express I can find timetables that give me a range of options before I go into ticket searches.
Of the groups likely to find this service appealing, the older segment might find the spin and win approach to finding a suitably timed journey hard work. I do!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
How's it spin and win? You select where you want to go from and to, select the date and it shows you all journeys on that day. What could be simpler? Traditional timetables suit enthusiasts who want to understand the overall service in a way end users don't generally need to on a service like that.
One welcome aspect is that there doesn't appear to be dynamic pricing, at least not yet, and fares are refundable (in line with rail) up to the day before, though there isn't a feature to change your journey on the day of travel which is a serious weakness.
fishwomp
Established Member
Holyhead ferry perhaps - that one is only one that goes to Holyhead. It looks like that's the only overnight one (0042 departs) which would connect easily for 23.00 arrival from Dublin (19:45 dep, Irish Ferries). First train out of Holyhead is 04:27 to Cardiff - a _long_ wait..
The other direction bus arrives 23:00 would be an easy connection for the 01.30 ferry (same ship as the inbound connection). Last train into Holyhead that'd connect would be ex-Euston at 23:53 (others arrive at a time too late but ok for 4am ferry).
It works if you have a simple A to B journey. However if you are looking to use it as just part of your journey it becomes opaque.
As an example, a Surrey to West Mids journey can use the NX Gatwick to Wolverhampton service in whole or part, joining or leaving at the most suitable places (e.g. Heathrow, Digbeth or others). Having the whole timetable lets me plan.
It’s not about being an enthusiast, I just happen to be from a generation that’s capable of using a timetable and can plan options.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Knowing how sparse Welsh public transport is, I can't see that there will be many journeys involving it where multiple change points are viable, to be honest.
johncrossley
Established Member
Not being able to get a refund on the day is in line with rail, but there is of course no fraud possible in this coach context. This is where they could learn from Ember who let you get a refund even after departure. Ember check in passengers on boarding so they can refund passengers who haven't checked in without worrying about fraud.
The Porthmadog to Machynlleth and Aberystwyth portion of the TaithCymru service parallels two rail routes so there are multiple options for any journey that needs to start with a connecting rail service.
The connectional time requirements will vary between users depending on their reasons for changing, whether that is speed, economy, convenience, tourism etc..
Denying the user the ability to self plan is seriously unhelpful.
Wuggie Norple
Member
Will this route be included in the TfW Explore Wales Passes?
stevieinselby
Established Member
As far as I can make out, this is the daily timetable. Single-hop journeys are often not bookable, eg Bangor to Caernarfon, or Aberaeron to Aberystwyth. I didn't check every pair of adjacent stops so I don't know exactly what the rules are governing that.
| Northbound | |||||||||||
| Carmarthen | 0215 | -- | 0715 | 0915 | 1115 | 1315 | 1515 | 1715 | 1915 | 2115 | 2315 |
| Aberaeron | 0321 | -- | 0821 | 1021 | 1221 | 1421 | 1621 | 1821 | 2021 | 2221 | 0021 |
| Aberystwyth (a) | 0400 | -- | 0900 | 1100 | 1300 | 1500 | 1700 | 1900 | 2100 | 2300 | 0100 |
| Aberystwyth (d) | 0415 | 0715 | 0915 | 1115 | 1315 | 1515 | 1715 | 1915 | 2108 | 2315 | 0100 |
| Aberystwyth Uni | 0420 | 0720 | 0920 | 1120 | 1320 | 1520 | 1720 | 1920 | 2113 | 2320 | 0107 |
| Machynlleth | 0456 | 0756 | 0956 | 1156 | 1356 | 1556 | 1756 | 1956 | 2149 | 2356 | -- |
| Dolgellau | 0532 | 0832 | 1032 | 1232 | 1432 | 1632 | 1832 | 2032 | 2225 | 0032 | -- |
| Porthmadog | 0617 | 0917 | 1117 | 1317 | 1517 | 1717 | 1917 | 2117 | 2310 | 0117 | -- |
| Caernarfon | 0653 | 0953 | 1153 | 1353 | 1553 | 1753 | 1953 | 2153 | 2346 | 0153 | -- |
| Bangor | 0715 | 1015 | 1215 | 1415 | 1615 | 1815 | 2015 | 2215 | 0008 | 0215 | -- |
| Holyhead | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 2300 | -- | -- | -- |
| Southbound | |||||||||||
| Holyhead | 0042 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| Bangor | 0127 | -- | 0520 | 0717 | 0920 | 1122 | 1323 | 1520 | 1720 | 1924 | 2137 |
| Caernarfon | 0149 | -- | 0542 | 0742 | 0942 | 1142 | 1342 | 1542 | 1742 | 1946 | 2159 |
| Porthmadog | 0227 | -- | 0620 | 0820 | 1020 | 1220 | 1420 | 1620 | 1820 | 2024 | 2237 |
| Dolgellau | 0311 | -- | 0704 | 0904 | 1104 | 1304 | 1504 | 1704 | 1904 | 2108 | 2321 |
| Machynlleth | 0347 | -- | 0740 | 0940 | 1140 | 1340 | 1540 | 1740 | 1940 | 2144 | 2357 |
| Aberystwyth Uni | 0423 | 0623 | 0816 | 1016 | 1216 | 1416 | 1616 | 1816 | 2016 | 2220 | 0033 |
| Aberystwyth (a) | 0430 | 0630 | 0823 | 1023 | 1223 | 1423 | 1623 | 1823 | 2023 | 2227 | 0040 |
| Aberystwyth (d) | 0436 | 0636 | 0836 | 1036 | 1236 | 1436 | 1636 | 1836 | 2036 | 2236 | -- |
| Aberaeron | 0511 | 0711 | 0911 | 1111 | 1311 | 1511 | 1711 | 1911 | 2111 | 2311 | -- |
| Carmarthen | 0620 | 0820 | 1020 | 1220 | 1420 | 1620 | 1820 | 2020 | 2220 | 0020 | -- |
markymark2000
On Moderation
It's not been added to any journey planner yet, that is why you can't find it.
Yesterday Traveline added a new operator code to their database TCED TaithCymru. Which I presume means that unlike TrawsCymru and various other bits, this service will be promoted under the brand name rather than the operators name/names. This is likely one of the steps needed for Traveline Cymru to add the service to the Traveline database, which then feeds through to Google Maps, Bustimes and various other places.
It's seemingly going to operate the same as Flixbus and most of NatEx to save registering the service, no journeys less than 15 miles as the crow flies.
Flange Squeal
Established Member
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Just to add a bit more to this, it would appear Edwards Coaches will be "leading the operation", but in cooperation with Llew Jones who are currently recruiting for drivers to be based at Bangor for the service. A news article by Llew Jones reads "Llew Jones will work in partnership with Edwards Coaches, operating the northern section between Bangor and Aberystwyth. Edwards Coaches will operate the southern section between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen, as well as leading the overall operation".
Source: https://llewjones.com/edwards-and-llew-jones-partner-up-to-deliver-taithcyrmu/
Belperpete
Established Member
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I believe that is the weekend timetable. On Mondays to Fridays, the last coach from Bangor leaves at 2120.
It is disappointing that the coaches don't appear on the traveline journey planner. Currently if I enquire about a journey on the 26th for example, I am only being shown the existing T2 service.
As they claim to have integrated the coach times with train times, it is also disappointing that they don't seem to have any integrated coach and train fares, as already exist for the T2.
Not making concessionary passes valid, and insisting on pre booking, is going to limit the abstraction of passengers from the existing T2 service.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
This bit about needing to be at the stop 15 minutes before departure seems to be buried in the FAQ. It really should be more prominent, for those who are planning to get a connecting bus or train to catch the Traith service.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
According to Wales Online, these are "promotional fares" which will be available until January 2027. After that, the "standard fare structure" is introduced. It also says that the times are subject to change.
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Wuggie Norple
Member
It does seem bonkers not to publish a conventional timetable. Do they want people to travel on these coaches or not?
I have emailed TaithCymru asking if they intend to publish the timetable on their website, and await a reply. They say they "...aim to respond within 10 working days". Not a very ambitious aim in my view.
I have emailed TaithCymru asking if they intend to publish the timetable on their website, and await a reply. They say they "...aim to respond within 10 working days". Not a very ambitious aim in my view.
Statto
Established Member
Cannot see this service doing well with so many hoops to go through to use it, Bangor to Aberystwyth fare is £4 single on the T2, & this service will be more than double the fare for that journey, although it's up to an hour quicker.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
So you can only buy in advance, you can’t find a full timetable, and the journey planners which show a through journey will actually require a change of coach at Aberystwyth.
Other than that, really easy to use!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Given that the coaches are owned by TfW, what makes you think that? Presumably it's just that, like a classic international train, the other company's drivers will just take over?
Statto
Established Member
That makes it more farcical, when 2 operators Crosville/Western Welsh operated the old Traws Cambria service back in the day it was the drivers that changed coaches at Newtown/Aberystwyth, coaches still travelled through, i'll say it again, with the hoops you have to go through to use it, they've set this service up to fail straight away.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Absolutely nothing is stating that it would be necessary to change coaches. As the coaches aren't owned by the operators this would be very surprising were it true, but can those suggesting it is provide evidence at all?
Being run the same way as TfW’s mid Wales train services then?
It is probably just vague wording in the press release, and the drivers will change over at Aberystwyth but not the TFW-owned vehicles.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Being run the same way as TfW’s mid Wales train services then?
I don't think the wording of the press release would indicate a change of bus to anyone other than an enthusiast who might infer it from it being "operated by" two organisations. As TfW own the coaches I can see no reason a change of coach would be required.
Is the refusal to sell short distance tickets to avoid the need to register it as a local bus service (and thus apply 56 days notice to any changes) perhaps?
Belperpete
Established Member
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In Bangor, they explicitly say it stops at the railway station, so presumably not also at the town centre bus station. But for Machynlleth, they don't say whether it stops at the railway station or in the town centre. There are some potentially useful connections if it is the railway station, but I would hate to be waiting there only to have it sail straight past.
Likewise in Porthmadog, does it stop at the "bus station" (as the T22 refers to the town centre bus stops!), or at the railway station?
Likewise in Porthmadog, does it stop at the "bus station" (as the T22 refers to the town centre bus stops!), or at the railway station?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This is a strange omission - it's indeed not clear where it stops in any of those places bar the ones specifying a station! Oops.
Belperpete
Established Member
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What journey planners are you referring to?
Currently the only journey planner I can find that shows it, is TfW's Traith Cymru booking site, and that doesn't show any change required at Aber.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I can see no evidence at all that a change would be required. It's just been inferred by a couple of people from the line about who is operating which bit.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I’d certainly hope so, but the inference I’d take is that “operation” is the whole thing, not just the drivers. One presumes that certain coaches are allocated to certain operators, even if they are owned by TfW, and so a certain amount of swapping of passengers will inevitably happen.
It’s something I’ve seen a few times where supposedly through buses actually require a change. Some of the early 685 Newcastle-Carlisle buses are like that, as is the 6/X6 in West Cumbria: everyone swaps buses and the buses themselves head back to where they were based.
Here’s hoping I’m wrong, but we’re talking about TfW here!
I’ve read before that that wasn’t always the case, everyone swapped buses and the Crosville bus went back north and the Western bus went back south. I’m not familiar with how it operated so that may be wrong.