Supermarkets discussion

[SuspectUsual]

Probably Manual Intelligence - remote video feed to a low-wage country with humans making the decision

Pardon Our Interruption

I don’t think it is. Link to the Coop website and some information about a trial they were part of - I suspect this is the rollout of that

 

[jon81uk]

Probably Manual Intelligence - remote video feed to a low-wage country with humans making the decision

Its often just a video feed to the kiosk counter in the same store for the staff to verify.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Its often just a video feed to the kiosk counter in the same store for the staff to verify.

I see a flaw. I wonder if the person at the kiosk counter has one button to press (covering all tills).

So.. Any under age purchaser just need to time their purchase so that it happens just before an obviously old enough person buying booze.

 

[speedy1]

Pardon Our Interruption

I don’t think it is. Link to the Coop website and some information about a trial they were part of - I suspect this is the rollout of that

Oh interesting!

The system doesn’t retain your image because once the transaction has completed it is deleted. As the image isn’t retained, your image won’t be used to improve the algorithm.

aahahah.... hahaha. HAHAH. Right. Sure. Probably in some insecure S3 bucket or passwordless WebDAV endpoint

"As the system uses facial analysis, we will always ask all our customers for consent before using the system"

@johntea did they ask your consent?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Oh interesting!


aahahah.... hahaha. HAHAH. Right. Sure. Probably in some insecure S3 bucket or passwordless WebDAV endpoint

"As the system uses facial analysis, we will always ask all our customers for consent before using the system"

@johntea did they ask your consent?

There is probably a wee little sign on the (open) door stating that if you enter then you imply consent !.

 

[speedy1]

There is probably a wee little sign on the (open) door stating that if you enter then you imply consent !.

IANAL but in my opinion, legally that is not the same as "asking consent".

 

[jon81uk]

I see a flaw. I wonder if the person at the kiosk counter has one button to press (covering all tills).

So.. Any under age purchaser just need to time their purchase so that it happens just before an obviously old enough person buying booze.

To the best of my knowledge at stores that do it, the kiosk has a view showing what is happening on the self-checkouts with the ones that need attention highlighted in red. I've noticed it at Tesco Express stores that the person at the kiosk has their till and a screen showing the self-checkout data. Yes they would need to be cautious of which they are looking at but I expect they would need to push two seperate buttons for each check-out.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I see a flaw. I wonder if the person at the kiosk counter has one button to press (covering all tills).

So.. Any under age purchaser just need to time their purchase so that it happens just before an obviously old enough person buying booze.

Kiosk verification is at individual self-checkout level - similar to authorisation of petrol pumps from the kiosk

 

[jon0844]

To the best of my knowledge at stores that do it, the kiosk has a view showing what is happening on the self-checkouts with the ones that need attention highlighted in red. I've noticed it at Tesco Express stores that the person at the kiosk has their till and a screen showing the self-checkout data. Yes they would need to be cautious of which they are looking at but I expect they would need to push two seperate buttons for each check-out.

What will happen at the stores that Tesco is continually destaffing, so that the poor person in the kiosk has to go out to fulfill a Whoosh picking, and now nobody is around to manage the self checkouts (or the 'staffed' checkout)?

I can very much see that the next step would be for Tesco to send the footage off site for someone (or a computer) to determine age and therefore use the staff for other things and not risk needing extra staff.

With all the issues with shoplifting, I was rather surprised to hear that Tesco is considering (or already doing) a reduction in security staff at many locations. Staff will have a safe room to run to if needed, but otherwise it seems some more losses are acceptable if it means one less staff cost.

(Source; Tesco employee discussions on Reddit).

 

[Peter Sarf]

IANAL but in my opinion, legally that is not the same as "asking consent".

I agree. Implicit agreement is a bit unfair.

 

[Sonic1234]

Staff will have a safe room to run to if needed, but otherwise it seems some more losses are acceptable if it means one less staff cost.

Staff are only effective against the somewhat civilised thieves, they are powerless against the gangs clearing out the whole booze isle.

Same thing on the railway. While no TOC would ever say it publically, I expect they would be happy with slightly higher fare evasion in return for destaffing.

 

[GusB]

Kiosk verification is at individual self-checkout level - similar to authorisation of petrol pumps from the kiosk

This is what happens at my local Co-op. If I go to a self-checkout I normally see the staff member at the kiosk looking over to check. I don't know if the facial recognition AI thing yet.

-----

On a separate issue, I note that Sainsbury's and Morrison's were in negotiations about a merger but nothing came of it.

Sainsbury’s and Morrisons ‘held talks this year’ on multibillion-pound merger

Deal would have created a supermarket with a market share of 23.6%, still well behind Tesco’s 27.8%

www.theguardian.com

Deal would have created a supermarket with a market share of 23.6%, still well behind Tesco’s 27.8%
Sainsbury’s held merger talks with rival Morrisons this year to discuss a multibillion-pound deal that would have been the biggest shake-up for UK supermarkets in decades, according to reports.
The two companies held exploratory negotiations, according to the Financial Times and Sky. It is believed they are no longer in live discussions.

Morrisons, which was once one of the big four UK grocers alongside Sainsbury’s, Tesco and Asda, was bought by the US private equity firm Clayton Dubilier & Rice in 2021.
The deal loaded it with more than £7bn in debt on its balance sheet, and it has since struggled to grow as fast as its rivals. The German discounter Lidl overtook it in market share this year.
A merger between Sainsbury’s and Morrisons would have created a business with a 23.6% market share, putting it still some way behind Britain’s biggest retailer, Tesco, which has 27.8% of the market, according to analysts at Worldpanel by Numerator.

The last attempt to merge two of the big four supermarkets was in 2019, when Asda and Sainsbury’s almost joined forces. That £7bn deal was blocked by the Competition and Markets Authority on the basis that it would result in a loss of competition and higher prices for customers.

The CMA would have almost certainly reviewed any merger between Sainsbury’s and Morrisons, and could have required the former to sell some of its stores to gain approval for any deal.
Reducing competition in the grocery sector could also be politically sensitive, given that millions of households have grappled with persistent food inflation in recent years.

Clayton Dubilier & Rice, however, is open to a tie-up between Morrisons and another major supermarket, according to Sky. It reported that Asda, which is majority owned by the private equity firm TDR Capital, could also be drawn into deal talks.

On the final point, I'm not sure which other major supermarket Morrison's could tie-up with other than Asda. Any combination with Tesco would give the enlarged organisation too big a market share. Morrison's and Asda combined would be around 20%. Do M&S and Waitrose count as "major supermarkets"?

 

[BuhSnarf]

This is what happens at my local Co-op. If I go to a self-checkout I normally see the staff member at the kiosk looking over to check. I don't know if the facial recognition AI thing yet.

-----

On a separate issue, I note that Sainsbury's and Morrison's were in negotiations about a merger but nothing came of it.

Sainsbury’s and Morrisons ‘held talks this year’ on multibillion-pound merger

Deal would have created a supermarket with a market share of 23.6%, still well behind Tesco’s 27.8%

www.theguardian.com

On the final point, I'm not sure which other major supermarket Morrison's could tie-up with other than Asda. Any combination with Tesco would give the enlarged organisation too big a market share. Morrison's and Asda combined would be around 20%. Do M&S and Waitrose count as "major supermarkets"?

Waitrose, yes. But M&S are only really supermarkets in very few locations - most of their food halls aren't a full style supermarket. I would say M&S would be categorised more as a department store.

 

[DelW]

Waitrose, yes. But M&S are only really supermarkets in very few locations - most of their food halls aren't a full style supermarket. I would say M&S would be categorised more as a department store.

M&S has been expanding its food-only estate considerably round my way - the one that's recently opened near me occupies the whole of what was previously a Homebase store. It's about the same size as the nearby Waitrose, and probably has a similar retail area to the food section of the local Sainsbury's (though that also has a household goods and clothing area). I've read of similar M&S new openings in other towns in the area as well.

 

[SuspectUsual]

On the final point, I'm not sure which other major supermarket Morrison's could tie-up with other than Asda. Any combination with Tesco would give the enlarged organisation too big a market share. Morrison's and Asda combined would be around 20%. Do M&S and Waitrose count as "major supermarkets"?

Two businesses drowning in debt forced on them by their owners. I said last year at least one of them will be gone by 2028

Its been discussed before on here, I think, but you only have to go in a Morrisons or Asda that you're familiar with from five years ago to see the decline in infrastructure and standards

 

[jon0844]

Staff are only effective against the somewhat civilised thieves, they are powerless against the gangs clearing out the whole booze isle.

Same thing on the railway. While no TOC would ever say it publically, I expect they would be happy with slightly higher fare evasion in return for destaffing.

Supermarkets can employ security that can protect stock by pushing people out and taking back items, and we've seen videos of where it has happened - not all resulting in that staff member being sacked.

Likewise Travel Safe Officers on the railway can grab someone and physically eject them to prevent travel.

However many security guards despite the accreditation, protective clothing and training don't get involved for whatever reason.

I think it is now becoming a bit of a myth that staff can't intervene. Your normal shop or rail worker can't, but you can bring in people who can.

St Pancras, Blackfriars, West Hampstead and St Albans now have more TSOs who can and will get involved to protect the railway and they will touch people - causing a lot of shock because I think the reason things are so bad now is because everyone believes they won't be touched.

If Tesco gets rid of security the problem will get worse for society in general. Obviously Tesco doesn't care about the bigger picture and I guess they're not worried about the local losses either which can just be passed on.

 

[Buzby]

I have certainly given up with Asda in the past few years - once WallMart abandoned it there was a constant decline and I find the place depressing to visit. As for Morrisons, I’m lucky enough to have a brand spanking new build which looks good and has a bakery, cafe and pharmacy as well as a petrol station. Prices there are higher than I would like, but with the recent news of cafe and pharmacy closures across the estate, its future looks decidedly uncertain.

 

[skyhigh]

Its been discussed before on here, I think, but you only have to go in a Morrisons or Asda that you're familiar with from five years ago to see the decline in infrastructure and standards

Asda has been dire but I get the feeling they're beginning to turn a corner. Morrisons feel like a dying business with no clear direction.