Should trains have yellow rear ends to reduce collisions?

[positron]

The BBC on Saturday posted an photo of the impact and it shows 60115 rear painted yellow crushed by 810015. So unless its a AI image the rear was yellow not grey.

The 360 (the train with yellow paint) went into the back of the 810 (the one without yellow paint). Jumping to AI rather than 'maybe I'm wrong' is a bit odd.

 

[lowe1409]

The BBC on Saturday posted an photo of the impact and it shows 60115 rear painted yellow crushed by 810015. So unless its a AI image the rear was yellow not grey.

Least damage doesn't mean fastest moving. All as what that proves is that the 810 was a better designed and constructed unit that proved to be more crash worthy. To put it another way, if a car rear ended a stationary lorry at 50+mph, I guarantee the lorry will crush the car despite the lorry being stationary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Least damage doesn't mean fastest moving. All as what that proves is that the 810 was a better designed and constructed unit that proved to be more crash worthy. To put it another way, if a car rear ended a stationary lorry at 50+mph, I guarantee the lorry will crush the car despite the lorry being stationary.

Or that if you hit a flat thing with a pointy thing it's very hard to make the flat thing strong enough for the pointy thing not to cave it in.

 

[ox_chap]

This might sound a slightly trivial contribution, but I wonder if we have lost something by not painting the front of trains bright yellow any more? Any extra second gained in realising there is the potential for collision ahead, means a slightly lower speed at the time of any impact.

 

[JamesT]

This might sound a slightly trivial contribution, but I wonder if we have lost something by not painting the front of trains bright yellow any more? Any extra second gained in realising there is the potential for collision ahead, means a slightly lower speed at the time of any impact.

Trains are allowed to not have yellow ends if they have suitably bright lights which should be at least as visible. The interim report doesn't mention an issue with the lights on the 810.

 

[Spartacus]

Trains are allowed to not have yellow ends if they have suitably bright lights which should be at least as visible. The interim report doesn't mention an issue with the lights on the 810.

I wouldn't expect the interim report to do so, either way. I've never been one to say we should keep yellow ends but there's something about that 10 second gap and people mentioning time taken to realise what you're looking at is really what you're looking at, not just a couple of random lights. Still, could well be some other explanation that's not come out yet, but I've started to wonder if losing it for purely aesthetic reasons might have been a bit overkeen, even if it wasn't a cause.

 

[devon_belle]

The GBR livery features yellow panels, presumably for aesthetic reasons, so going forward we can probably expect all passenger stock to have them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The GBR livery features yellow panels, presumably for aesthetic reasons, so going forward we can probably expect all passenger stock to have them.

The TPE new units don't.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 08:25 ==

I wouldn't expect the interim report to do so, either way. I've never been one to say we should keep yellow ends but there's something about that 10 second gap and people mentioning time taken to realise what you're looking at is really what you're looking at, not just a couple of random lights. Still, could well be some other explanation that's not come out yet, but I've started to wonder if losing it for purely aesthetic reasons might have been a bit overkeen, even if it wasn't a cause.

That only really applies on a single line. Presumably on a double or more track formation it has to get fairly close before you can see that it's on your line rather than the other one where it would be perfectly safe.

Bedford does highlight visibility from the rear, but there was never any requirement for that to be yellow nor have bright lights. It's just because MUs have a rear cab that yellow is present. LHCS doesn't and has no requirement to be so. Though it does in some countries e.g. I think Thailand.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This might sound a slightly trivial contribution, but I wonder if we have lost something by not painting the front of trains bright yellow any more?

No, because the removal of yellow front ends only applies where the headlights are of sufficient brightness. If you can’t spot the high-lumosity headlights you’re not going to spot a yellow panel. Nobody else running large rail networks has yellow panels on their trains; if they made the slightest bit of difference other countries would have copied the UK, but they didn’t.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nobody else running large rail networks has yellow panels on their trains; if they made the slightest bit of difference other countries would have copied the UK, but they didn’t.

Often not yellow, but some others do use high visibility colours of some kind. DB traditionally used red with what I recall is a high visibility white stripe, for instance, and I've seen orange and black stripes. The idea isn't exclusive to the UK.

 

[devon_belle]

The TPE new units don't.

I thought those images were just an artist's impression.

It seems that all units painted into GBR so far have got the same yellow panel arrangement as the preceding livery (including SWR with it's different colour of yellow). I guess we won't know until they repaint one from a livery without yellow panels.

 

[sprinterguy]

I guess we won't know until they repaint one from a livery without yellow panels.

They already have done, with a Chiltern mark 5 rake - Same black front end as previously.

 

[devon_belle]

They already have done, with a Chiltern mark 5 rake - Same black front end as previously.

Whoops. Well then who knows what will happen, so much for GBR consistency

 

[bahnause]

Could yellow ends on the stopped train have made the driver of the second train brake sooner? Those high-intensity LED lights seem to have a relatively narrow beam, and wouldn't be so visible on a curve.

How many incidents are we talking about?

 

[Posa]

If it's a four aspect area the driver didn't react to an aws warning, a double yellow, an aws warning, a single yellow, an aws warning, and finally blasted past the RED signal and crashed into the back of a train.

I very much doubt a yellow end would make a difference.

 

[baz962]

If it's a four aspect area the driver didn't react to an aws warning, a double yellow, an aws warning, a single yellow, an aws warning, and finally blasted past the RED signal and crashed into the back of a train.

I very much doubt a yellow end would make a difference.

Didn't have a double yellow. Had a single yellow on the platform as you pretty much always do, unless staying on the up slow . Reacted to the red and then single yellow at the junction and navigated the junction perfectly.

 

[mmh]

The TPE new units don't.

The TPE new units don't exist.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TPE new units don't exist.

The mock ups show black ends.

 

[The exile]

Often not yellow, but some others do use high visibility colours of some kind. DB traditionally used red with what I recall is a high visibility white stripe, for instance, and I've seen orange and black stripes. The idea isn't exclusive to the UK.

Well - DB used red with a white stripe or bib from the late 1980s onwards. Previous liveries (the electrics’ dark green or blue in particular) were almost deliberately inconspicuous, so I’m not sure about “traditionally”.

 

[Trackman]

On yellow ends, I thought they were implemented for track workers only, after a few fatalities; - not for trains.

 

[AlterEgo]

If it's a four aspect area the driver didn't react to an aws warning, a double yellow, an aws warning, a single yellow, an aws warning, and finally blasted past the RED signal and crashed into the back of a train.

I very much doubt a yellow end would make a difference.

The 810 could be seen on CCTV for 11 seconds before any attempt to show the train was made. And CCTV is poor quality. The train was, it turns out, there to be seen. The 11 seconds was likely the time it took for the driver to process the 810 was in fact on his line out of the four available (remember it was on a curve), and to process "was that a red back there?".

The yellow ends discussion here is jumping the gun in my view.

 

[Acathater]

Well.....maybe the answer is yellow paint on the front and red on the rear so it's more obvious whether the train you're approaching is on the same track.

 

[skyhigh]

Well.....maybe the answer is yellow paint on the front and red on the rear so it's more obvious whether the train you're approaching is on the same track.