URGENT please advise

[bobtim374]

I'm 19, my sister is 15. She has an 11-15 Zip Oyster photocard for concessionary travel. I've been using her card on and off for about a year to get to uni, since it meant free/reduced fare. A few weeks ago I was stopped by TfL staff at a station while using it. I gave a false name in the moment (said I was her) rather than my own. They didn't get my actual details, but they confiscated the card.


About a week later, TfL's Security, Policing and Enforcement (Appeals and Prosecutions) team sent a letter addressed to our parent/guardian. It gave a case number, said the card had been flagged for use by "another person" in breach of the Behaviour Code, and asked for an explanation of the circumstances — with a two-week deadline before they'd consider withdrawing her concession.


We (my parent) replied, apologised, acknowledged the card should only be used by her, and asked for it to be resolved with a warning rather than a withdrawal, without naming who'd actually used it. TfL replied asking why another person had used the card (not specifically who). We responded again without naming anyone, saying there'd been confusion over who had permission to use it and that it had been addressed at home.


It's now been about a week since that last reply with no response yet.


Has anyone dealt with this specific process (Zip card concession withdrawal, not the adult fare evasion/prosecution route) before? Particularly:

• How long did TfL typically take to come back with a decision?
• Did a vague explanation (not naming who used it) cause issues, or was it accepted?
• Realistically, can TfL track down who was actually using the card after the fact (e.g. through CCTV, contactless top-up payment history) for a case at this level, or is that only something they'd pursue for more serious/repeated fare evasion?
• Does an open case like this have any bearing on her applying for a 16+ Zip card when she turns 16 in a couple of months?

 

[Swedenorer]

How would anybody here know of this threadbare 'vague explanation' was accepted? They'll tell you soon enough.

But for a start don't be daft enough to trot out 'confusion about who can use the card' again. It is a photocard.

If you do a simple search on '11-15' under Disputes here you will find you join a number of 19 year olds who've been in the same situation. Do your own research.

TfL take misuse of concession cards very seriously - and so they should. They will trawl any evidence of use they can.

Come back when they have contacted you again.

 

[Gooner18]

They will simply think “ if there had been confusion and an innocent mistake why is the person not being named “. Also as mentioned it has a a picture so that excuse is not going to work, further more by not saying who used it adds to suspicion and points even more to dishonesty and fraud.
In my opinion TFl will certainly prosecute for this , no doubt the TFl will have BWV footage etc

 

[AlterEgo]

In my opinion TFl will certainly prosecute for this , no doubt the TFl will have BWV footage etc

Prosecute whom? They don't know who used the card.

 

[Gooner18]

Prosecute whom? They don't know who used the card.

I would imagine it’s either name the person or face the possibility of not getting another Zip card.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would imagine it’s either name the person or face the possibility of not getting another Zip card.

Not a hard decision for a parent to make then. I know what I'd do.

 

[SuspectUsual]

We responded again without naming anyone, saying there'd been confusion over who had permission to use it and that it had been addressed at home

Prosecute whom? They don't know who used the card.

So you didn't name anyone but told them where the offender lives. They're not daft you know

 

[AlterEgo]

So you didn't name anyone but told them where the offender lives. They're not daft you know

They don't have any evidence as to who used the card, nor does anything that has been disclosed actually provide evidence of the offender's address or identity.

Obviously a good parent is not going to rat out their daughter to get prosecuted.

 

[tatitiliti]

They don't have any evidence as to who used the card, nor does anything that has been disclosed actually provide evidence of the offender's address or identity.

Obviously a good parent is not going to rat out their daughter to get prosecuted.

Agree

 

[bobtim374]

Agree

They don't have any evidence as to who used the card, nor does anything that has been disclosed actually provide evidence of the offender's address or identity.

Obviously a good parent is not going to rat out their daughter to get prosecuted.

But can’t they track down contactless payment top ups and cctv footage?

 

[30907]

But can’t they track down contactless payment top ups and cctv footage?

They could do so in theory but for a low-level offence like this I would think it unlikely (and the top ups would not themselves constitute an offence).

TfL work on the basis of prosecuting under their Byelaws for travel without a valid ticket - easy to prove, enough of a hit to the offender, but not causing lasting repercussions (certainly for UK nationals).

As to your sister's situation, I would read the small print of the 16+ application carefully to see if TfL could refuse to grant one.

 

[bobtim374]

UPDATE

How would anybody here know of this threadbare 'vague explanation' was accepted? They'll tell you soon enough.

But for a start don't be daft enough to trot out 'confusion about who can use the card' again. It is a photocard.

If you do a simple search on '11-15' under Disputes here you will find you join a number of 19 year olds who've been in the same situation. Do your own research.

TfL take misuse of concession cards very seriously - and so they should. They will trawl any evidence of use they can.

Come back when they have contacted you again.

UPDATE : They sent a letter saying that the card is suspended for a year. We can earn it back by doing the EYTB participation form. Shall I still be worried about being prosecuted?

 

[Titfield]

Who was the letter addressed to?
Who does the letter specify as being the person to EYTB? (You use the phrase "we can earn it back")

 

[bobtim374]

Who was the letter addressed to?
Who does the letter specify as being the person to EYTB? (You use the phrase "we can earn it back")

To parent/guardian of my sister. And my sister is required to do the volunteering. Nothing addressed to me

 

[jfollows]

Please explain abbreviations:

4. Earn Your Travel Back (EYTB)

EYTB is an initiative that was launched by the Mayor of London on 27 August 2009. It allows the

minority of young people who lose their travel concession due to a breach of the Behaviour

Code to earn it back earlier by taking part in a volunteering activity.

The initiative is led by Transport for London.

EYTB is often the quickest way for a young person to have their access to concessionary travel

reinstated.

EYTB is not compulsory but young people are encouraged to take part.

from https://content.tfl.gov.uk/zip-enforcement-policy.pdf

 

[Titfield]

I would suggest that there is a possibility that there may be a letter on its way to you as you were the person evading the fare and you are an adult.

If nothing is received with a few weeks then you would almost certainly be in the clear as it would be unlikely that the whole matter isn't being dealt with at this time though a prosecution letter may take longer to be generated and sent to you.

Of course this presupposes that somehow they have got your name (on the basis that your prior posts suggest that you did not give it.).

If they do not have your name it seems odd that they have not asked your sisters parents / guardians for it as part of the response letter you refer to if they were seeking to prosecute you.

My gut feel is that you have got away with it but I would wait for a few weeks before I was reasonably certain.

If you have got away with it, this is a monumental piece of good fortune.

 

[bobtim374]

I

I would suggest that there is a possibility that there may be a letter on its way to you as you were the person evading the fare and you are an adult.

If nothing is received with a few weeks then you would almost certainly be in the clear as it would be unlikely that the whole matter isn't being dealt with at this time though a prosecution letter may take longer to be generated and sent to you.

Of course this presupposes that somehow they have got your name (on the basis that your prior posts suggest that you did not give it.).

If they do not have your name it seems odd that they have not asked your sisters parents / guardians for it as part of the response letter you refer to if they were seeking to prosecute you.

My gut feel is that you have got away with it but I would wait for a few weeks before I was reasonably certain.

If you have got away with it, this is a monumental piece of good fortune.

Thanks for your response. I will post an update in a few months. I have learnt my lesson and won’t use it again. Picking up extra work shifts alongside studies to somehow do this

 

[Egg Centric]

I

Thanks for your response. I will post an update in a few months. I have learnt my lesson and won’t use it again. Picking up extra work shifts alongside studies to somehow do this

And it goes without saying reimburse your parents/sister!