TPE bodycams flashing red - meaning

[speedy1]

On a few TPE services recently the revenue staff have been on board and I've noticed their cams are flashing red as they are walking around or sat in 1st class on a break etc.

Is a flashing red LED at a 'normal' speed an indicator that's it's recording video and audio? If so, is that in line with TPE policy to record when there is no threat, no incident, etc?

 

[notspy]

Flashing red is a pre-record setting, i.e. if activated it will save the last 30 seconds before activation. Steady red is activated and recording.

 

[speedy1]

Ah, thanks!

 

[muz379]

If so, is that in line with TPE policy to record when there is no threat, no incident, etc?

Is that actually a policy ?

I mean on board CCTV is recording all of the time whether there is a threat, incident or everything is perfectly normal ?

 

[speedy1]

I worded it badly. I meant is there any such policy.

And regarding your implication that constant bodycam recording is fine, I disagree as it includes audio.

Anyway, no need for this thread to veer off in another direction. Question was answered

 

[Olivine]

Is that actually a policy ?

I mean on board CCTV is recording all of the time whether there is a threat, incident or everything is perfectly normal ?

Just for clarification

Most, if not all bodycams record all the time when out of the dock. Varying between models, then then overwrite the video/audio from two minutes prior, and when the bodycam is activated it will effectively keep the recording from 2 minutes before, and onwards.

Stops the ‘well what did you say to him that made him upset’ rather than only activating when it’s pressed!

 

[bunnahabhain]

I worded it badly. I meant is there any such policy.

And regarding your implication that constant bodycam recording is fine, I disagree as it includes audio.

Anyway, no need for this thread to veer off in another direction. Question was answered

Pre-record doesn't record audio until the camera is activated in my experience.

 

[Mike_0ne]

Pre-record doesn't record audio until the camera is activated in my experience.

Depends on models, most current gen and future will also pre record sound too for 30 sec.
As an aside, I'll always vouch for staff to wear them... especially for the verbal abuse they face... the Magistrates *love* BWV far more than CCTV.

 

[Undiscovered]

Depends on the model of the body cam.

Ours display lights at all times, which alter when the camera is active, either in colour, or intensity, both or neither.

However, it it always records, both audio and visual, on a set, timed self deleting, rolling loop.
That footage only formally saved when the camera is activated by the wearer. It saves audio and visual footage again, until deactivated.

Staff know how to recognise if a body cam is active, and we know how long they record, 'pre-activation'. I've not published these details here, for obvious reasons

Edit: I can activate my body cam at any time I wish. During ticket checks, during general walkthroughs, whenever I wish. I am not permitted to film in Staff Only areas, like mess rooms etc.

 

[speedy1]

I'm pretty surprised to learn all this to be honest. (Apologies if I've misunderstood things, I've got yet another cold)

These were definitely bought in under the justification of activated-when-necessary, as a deterrent, to be used for escalating situations

eg https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/abo...r-anglia-conductors-deter-abuse-railway-staff

Conductors on Greater Anglia trains are being issued with new ‘badge cams’ to deter anti-social behaviour and staff assaults.

Every conductor now has access to one of the hi-tech badges – which contain a small built-in video camera - to help them defuse difficult situations.

The badge cam works by constantly recording, but not actively storing footage until a flap is flicked. Once the camera has been activated, it will keep filming until it is stopped. 30 seconds of footage prior to the activation is also automatically stored – useful in case of an escalating situation.

Green and red lights will also show, while a camera symbol will also be unveiled, so it is clear that a recording is being made.

(edited to add Northern too):

Body-worn cameras to make the Northern railway network safer

Train operator Northern are introducing over 350 body-worn cameras for staff in the North of England.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Although the cameras will not be recording all the time, they will be used to capture ongoing incidents, or to help secure evidence for British Transport Police.

Now they're recording for longer, can be activated whenever you like for any purpose, and no standard for knowing when recording is active - almost on purpose ("which alter when the camera is active, either in colour, or intensity, both or neither" ?) ?

edit:

The ICO also says:

Some BWV devices offer the ability to continuously buffer recording, so if you turn it on it may also have recorded the previous few seconds. It is important that you ensure any buffered recording is not excessive, and you only record the amount of footage you intend to.

Are they aware of 120 seconds of pre-recording?

and

It may be appropriate for a security guard to switch on their BWV camera when they believe an individual is being aggressive towards them. However, it may not be appropriate to switch it on when an individual is merely asking for directions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder what the legality is with regard to the pre-recording in places like lavatories, where an offence could be committed by filming, particularly if children are using the facility? I wonder has there been a test case here?

Can staff turn the camera off completely when using the lavatory?

 

[Undiscovered]

I wonder what the legality is with regard to the pre-recording in places like lavatories, where an offence could be committed by filming, particularly if children are using the facility? I wonder has there been a test case here?

Can staff turn the camera off completely when using the lavatory?

I really thought it should have gone without saying, but we are instructed not to wear them in toilets. They go in our kit bags. They are detachable, from their mounts, again, ways I won't explain, and we can fully switch them off too. As in off off off.

And, to answer others, whilst I'm not sure of the exact specifics, for any footage we capture to be accessed, there is a strict set of guidelines. I think it needs the approval of three very senior managers, plus outside requests from other authorities, for the footage to even be viewed. Release to third parties is even more stringent.
We're not talking about footage on a camera phone, that can be edited by A Blogs and uploaded to utube, to suit whatever narrative they wish to portray. We're in the realms of criminal proceedings, recorded on cameras, governed by strict rules. If I take out a body cam, I sign, every time, to say I am aware of the rules and procedures relating to its wearing, use, and activation. With most of my company policies, infringement has consequences.


This is a public forum, and I'm aware that disclosing workings of devices deployed to protect staff safety are being discussed.


As a tongue in cheek aside, I wonder if people are having the same discussions on retail forums, about recording length etc,or if this is just Railway bashing.
I mean, I for one am disgusted by my local supermarket as all their staff wear body cams, even their area managers! who don't wear a uniform! and who are only identifiable by a tiny little name badge on their own clothes!I have to almost headbutt them to read who they are!!!

Perhaps we should be having a wider discussion on just WHY frontline staff,in many fields, are more and more choosing to wear body cams...


Edit- removed flippant comment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a tongue in cheek aside, I wonder if people are having the same discussions on retail forums, about recording length etc,or if this is just Railway bashing.

I have significant issues with the overuse of CCTV in any context. In particular the use of audio which may pick up conversations which may have been private before it existed, and the use by private individuals with few or no controls such as Ring doorbells.

It is something I would like to see strong privacy legislation on.

So no, it's not just the railway.

 

[Undiscovered]

I have significant issues with the overuse of CCTV in any context. In particular the use of audio which may pick up conversations which may have been private before it existed, and the use by private individuals with few or no controls such as Ring doorbells.

It is something I would like to see strong privacy legislation on.

So no, it's not just the railway.

I agree with all your points.
I am especially concerned with the proliferation of ring cams, their inherent security vulnerabilities, and lack of adherence to well established rules regarding cctv.

Edit- but that's a separate discussion.

Edit- FTA:

From my point of view, I think the prerecording is a protection,for both parties. It picks up the quiet "I'm gonna nut this guy if he asks for my ticket" that I might not hear, while I'm checking someone else's ticket, just as it picks up the "Tickets please, you planks!"when I enter a situation, causing the inherent kerfuffle. Also shows that i was either being an asshole to everyone,or that that one person was being an asshole to me. That context helps evaluate any situation.