EMR Sprinter only using one door?

[jfowkes]

I'm on a 4-car 158 from Nottingham to Skegness (2S23 if it's relevant).

There was an announcement that passengers for Bingham and Aslockton should use the very front door of the train only due to short platforms. Not just "the front three carriages" or whatever, very explicitly just the front door of the first carriage.

My best guess is this is because these trains don't have SDO, so opening as usual would also open non-platformed doors. So it just has to be a door opened locally by the train manager/guard. Is that right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My best guess is this is because these trains don't have SDO, so opening as usual would also open non-platformed doors. So it just has to be a door opened locally by the train manager/guard. Is that right?

Yes, that's correct. It's not unusual practice, e.g. it's done at Corrour.

 

[DelW]

I think it was said recently on another thread that all Sprinter types had to be local door only at stations where they are unable to fit all doors on the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it was said recently on another thread that all Sprinter types had to be local door only at stations where they are unable to fit all doors on the platform.

Yes correct, no 15x I know of have any kind of SDO. It could be fitted but I haven't heard of any TOCs that have done so other than that 159s lock off the front vestibule door and passenger doors when the driver's key is in.

 

[jfowkes]

Yes, that's correct. It's not unusual practice, e.g. it's done at Corrour.

Cool thanks for confirming that. I do Nottingham-Grantham quite regularly so I guess I've just missed it up to now, maybe it's not that common on this route or something. I don't know how common the 4-car 158s are on Nottingham - Skegness.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes correct, no 15x I know of have any kind of SDO. It could be fitted but I haven't heard of any TOCs that have done so other than that 159s lock off the front vestibule door and passenger doors when the driver's key is in.

SWR 158/159 do have a form of unit deselect.

 

[mickey]

Yes, that's correct. It's not unusual practice, e.g. it's done at Corrour.

And bits of the Cambrian line… some platforms are less than half a carriage long anyway! I forget which, but one of them is “hang around in the middle of the train, which door exactly depends how good the driver is at stopping” which always amuses newbies not used to it!

 

[Parallel]

And bits of the Cambrian line… some platforms are less than half a carriage long anyway! I forget which, but one of them is “hang around in the middle of the train, which door exactly depends how good the driver is at stopping” which always amuses newbies not used to it!

Llanaber, Llanbedr, Llandanwg, Tygwyn and Abererch are the Cambrian line stations where the rear door of the leading vehicle are released.

It happens on the GWR network too at Avoncliff, Dilton Marsh, and also Thornford and Chetnole depending on total train length, but GWR will release the front door rather than one of the middle ones.

 

[High Dyke]

Cool thanks for confirming that. I do Nottingham-Grantham quite regularly so I guess I've just missed it up to now, maybe it's not that common on this route or something. I don't know how common the 4-car 158s are on Nottingham - Skegness.

During the summer period 4-car units are allocated on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday for the Skegness route, other days they may appear, but not often.

There are a number of stations on the route that require that door option. Equally, there have been times where the guard has opened one door and then walked along the platform opening other doors individually.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have seen at busy stations like Market Rasen the gaurd walk down the train and open every local door on the platfrom, but that increases the dwell time.

 

[em81]

At least they're not taking out of Northern 's book and locking the rear carriage out of use on paired up Sprinters!

Overall I would have thought asking passengers to head to the middle of the train would make more sense.

 

[scrapy]

At least they're not taking out of Northern 's book and locking the rear carriage out of use on paired up Sprinters!

Overall I would have thought asking passengers to head to the middle of the train would make more sense.

Because believe it or not some passengers dont know where the middle is. They might not know if theyve boarded the 2nd or 3rd carriage and whether they need to go forward or back. Front of front means you only move forward.

 

[Failed Unit]

I am not sure if the stopping point is always the same when the train doesn’t fit the platform, but some of the stations in Lincolnshire can only take 2 coaches so the middle may not work. I think there is one that can only take 1 coach (doesn’t have many people use it). Can’t remember if it is Thorpe Culvert or Havenhouse

 

[em81]

Because believe it or not some passengers dont know where the middle is. They might not know if theyve boarded the 2nd or 3rd carriage and whether they need to go forward or back. Front of front means you only move forward.

Northern guards used to say the middle where I'm located, before they changed their policy to one that inconveniences passengers and wastes diesel.

EMR have services where a portion is attached mid-service, so probably the most sensible option is for a coach number to be displayed and the guard to reference that.

 

[Failed Unit]

EMR don’t seem to label their trains any more, not sure how much confusion reversal making in that respect. (Considering a lot of them reverse.)

 

[jamesst]

If youre ever in the Scottish Highlands go to Beauly. The platform is barely one coach length and only one door can be opened

 

[IanMac]

This maybe resembles the frequent cancellation of the 08:16 weekdays stop at Whittlesea on the Norwich - Liverpool EMR route, commonly attributed to a "fault on the train"; there was a recent thread on it.

 

[Kite159]

This maybe resembles the frequent cancellation of the 08:16 weekdays stop at Whittlesea on the Norwich - Liverpool EMR route, commonly attributed to a "fault on the train"; there was a recent thread on it.

Although that is down to some of the 170s EMR acquiring having a limited number of Guard Operating Panels (GOPs) within the passenger saloon area, compared to a trusty 158 which have GOPs at every door.

 

[marshlinker]

Although that is down to some of the 170s EMR acquiring having a limited number of Guard Operating Panels (GOPs) within the passenger saloon area, compared to a trusty 158 which have GOPs at every door.

Dont understand why thats a problem, the 171s on Marshlink only have one panel every other door and they can deselect so only open the doors in that coach. Three Oaks and Doleham only the front coach doors open.

 

[TUC]

I'm on a 4-car 158 from Nottingham to Skegness (2S23 if it's relevant).

There was an announcement that passengers for Bingham and Aslockton should use the very front door of the train only due to short platforms. Not just "the front three carriages" or whatever, very explicitly just the front door of the first carriage.

My best guess is this is because these trains don't have SDO, so opening as usual would also open non-platformed doors. So it just has to be a door opened locally by the train manager/guard. Is that right?

Is that door wheelchair-accessible?

 

[Kentish RYS]

Dont understand why thats a problem, the 171s on Marshlink only have one panel every other door and they can deselect so only open the doors in that coach. Three Oaks and Doleham only the front coach doors open.

But to Turbostars have quite a few detail differences (which I don't know all) but it is some of the 170s don't have GOPs in Driving vehicles from this thread.

From the thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...dlands-railway-stopping-cancellations.306180/

It is because the train is booked a 3 car 170, but EMR only consider the down platform suitable for releasing 1 carriage's doors as there isn't sufficient extra margin of error for stopping with 2.

The problem is there are 2 types of 3 car 170, the diagram is booked for one of the 7 x 170/4s which have door controls in all carriage saloons. However, on the 170/2 3 car sets there are only door controls in the middle carriage and rear cab accessible to the guard so you can't stop at single carriage platforms so Whittlesea gets a not to stop order.

I'd assume the intention was to always work from cabs and there was no one coach platforms to worry about. From a very cursory look on Wikipedia they were new to Scotrail who do have tiny platforms, so presumably they were not intended to operate those lines?

 

[andy33gmail]

Unlock all the doors and ask passengers to pick one with platform next to it

 

[MargaretNoodle]

Back in the days of EMT I was once on a 156 + 158 combo on a run out from Boston towards Nottingham. The 158 was in the rear but no one was allowed in it. I'm sure this isn't an unusual situation but I've always wondered, would there have been a way to stop the doors being released on that rear 158 at each station?

 

[Failed Unit]

Is that door wheelchair-accessible?

Yes. But the wheelchair space is elsewhere. This is also common problem with the 3 car 170s it could be the wheelchair space that is off the platform. On a 158 in my personal experience the guard opens the door manually. One the 170s the wheelchair is either moved the station before or put in the cycle area. (Ex Scotrail units have 2. Not used an ex Anglia one with a wheelchair user)

 

[The exile]

Because believe it or not some passengers dont know where the middle is. They might not know if theyve boarded the 2nd or 3rd carriage and whether they need to go forward or back. Front of front means you only move forward.

Gets a bit confusing if you’re not used to it when boarding at Bristol TM - the announcement (correctly) refers to the front coach for Avoncliff etc, but you need to be in the know to realise that that’s the rear coach as the train pulls in from Filton.

 

[TUC]

Yes. But the wheelchair space is elsewhere. This is also common problem with the 3 car 170s it could be the wheelchair space that is off the platform. On a 158 in my personal experience the guard opens the door manually. One the 170s the wheelchair is either moved the station before or put in the cycle area. (Ex Scotrail units have 2. Not used an ex Anglia one with a wheelchair user)

This is all the more an issue because, according to the National Rail website, both Bingham and Aslockton stations are wheelchair-accessible. To have accessible stations, but pay no attention to have trains with configurations to support this is not acceptable.

 

[Justin Time]

I'm on a 4-car 158 from Nottingham to Skegness (2S23 if it's relevant).

There was an announcement that passengers for Bingham and Aslockton should use the very front door of the train only due to short platforms. Not just "the front three carriages" or whatever, very explicitly just the front door of the first carriage.

My best guess is this is because these trains don't have SDO, so opening as usual would also open non-platformed doors. So it just has to be a door opened locally by the train manager/guard. Is that right?

Same thing happened last week to me at Hubberts Bridge, twice alighting and once boarding. Same set up, a 4 car 158. I was aware it was going to happen so no problem being in the right place.

 

[Failed Unit]

This is all the more an issue because, according to the National Rail website, both Bingham and Aslockton stations are wheelchair-accessible. To have accessible stations, but pay no attention to have trains with configurations to support this is not acceptable.

I agree, as the person pushing the wheelchair the staff often don’t know which coach the hump is going to be at. You can still get a wheelchair off the door isn’t on the hump but the angle is much steeper then I like. However the humps were a challenge even in the 153 days you could only gain access to them with one door.

Back to your point, even Newark Castle can’t fit all 3 coaches on the platform heading towards Nottingham (according to the public information systems). I suspect the train will be all on the platform, but I don’t know how they manage that. Perhaps the guard opens the local doors. They must have a solution as the 222s definitely won’t fit. I hope that solution isn‘t a taxi.

EMR regional always get what they are given. The 158s in my opinion are the best for a wheelchair as the space is always in the centre. The 156s used to be one end so a 50 / 50 chance of standing in the correct place. The 170s are not bad if they are only 2 cars. I think most EMR stations can accommodate a whole 158 (or at least 3/4 doors)

 

[AY1975]

I'm on a 4-car 158 from Nottingham to Skegness (2S23 if it's relevant).

There was an announcement that passengers for Bingham and Aslockton should use the very front door of the train only due to short platforms. Not just "the front three carriages" or whatever, very explicitly just the front door of the first carriage.

My best guess is this is because these trains don't have SDO, so opening as usual would also open non-platformed doors. So it just has to be a door opened locally by the train manager/guard. Is that right?

Presumably the 158s are old enough to have grandfather rights allowing them to do this? AFAIK anything built post-privatisation, e.g. 170s, would not be allowed to call at stations with short platforms without SDO.

 

[Rail2002]

I agree, as the person pushing the wheelchair the staff often don’t know which coach the hump is going to be at. You can still get a wheelchair off the door isn’t on the hump but the angle is much steeper then I like. However the humps were a challenge even in the 153 days you could only gain access to them with one door.

Back to your point, even Newark Castle can’t fit all 3 coaches on the platform heading towards Nottingham (according to the public information systems). I suspect the train will be all on the platform, but I don’t know how they manage that. Perhaps the guard opens the local doors. They must have a solution as the 222s definitely won’t fit. I hope that solution isn‘t a taxi.

EMR regional always get what they are given. The 158s in my opinion are the best for a wheelchair as the space is always in the centre. The 156s used to be one end so a 50 / 50 chance of standing in the correct place. The 170s are not bad if they are only 2 cars. I think most EMR stations can accommodate a whole 158 (or at least 3/4 doors)

222s have Selective Door Opening. It's used at Long Eaton as only 4 coaches are platformed.