Trainline selling misleading tickets

[Haywain]

What I am saying is a conviction or even out of court settlement can ruin someones job / life, especially with an aggressive Revenue team.

What we are saying is that you are exaggerating.

 

[Chiltern 165]

Another thing I have noticed in many threads recently are invalid railcards being automatically applied.

I think it is despicable that Trainline seemingly doesn't bother informing you that you have an invalid railcard. I fear this possibly could be to entice you into purchasing a cheaper price, something which they are well known for doing.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think it is despicable that Trainline seemingly doesn't bother informing you that you have an invalid railcard.

They do tell you when it's expiring, by way of an email from the National Railcard team. I think they share the data with them.

 

[Chiltern 165]

They do tell you when it's expiring, by way of an email from the National Railcard team. I think they share the data with them.

Perhaps then. They still let you book on your previous railcard without informing you that its expired/will be expired, at least if the people on the forum are to be believed.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Perhaps then. They still let you book on your previous railcard without informing you that its expired/will be expired, at least if the people on the forum are to be believed.

All they do is remember the fact you have a railcard for your search. That isn't linked to the fact you may or may not have a railcard on your account.
If they stopped remembering and instead defaulted to not keeping the railcard people would just whinge about their railcard not being automatically populated and having to add it each time.

 

[Chiltern 165]

All they do is remember the fact you have a railcard for your search. That isn't linked to the fact you may or may not have a railcard on your account.
If they stopped remembering and instead defaulted to not keeping the railcard people would just whinge about their railcard not being automatically populated and having to add it each time.

Does any other online service (apart from the archaic BBC) retain your subscription benefits, even after expiry?

I understand there are people who bought a railcard from other locations, but they need to work something out that works better.

 

[Haywain]

Does any other online service (apart from the archaic BBC) retain your subscription benefits, even after expiry?

What part of this are you suggesting is a "subscription benefit"? All the app (or website) is doing is remembering the parameters that were used on the last search/purchase.

 

[Chiltern 165]

What part of this are you suggesting is a "subscription benefit"? All the app (or website) is doing is remembering the parameters that were used on the last search/purchase.

To the regular passenger (ie not railway enthusiasts / railway employees) a railcard is a subscription that Trainline is selling them for cheap tickets, like Amazon Prime or a Tesco Clubcard.

Trainline (and the broader industry) should be doing more than remembering parameters, they should be actively watching the railcard being used.

 

[Haywain]

a railcard is a subscription that Trainline is selling them for cheap tickets, like Amazon Prime or a Tesco Clubcard.

What if the railcard wasn't bought from Trainline? I have used various websites for ticket purchase and many of them 'remember' that I use a railcard, and it isn't a subscription in any of those cases.

 

[AlterEgo]

The industry will trial live validation of railcards soon at the time of purchase anyway which will put this tedious argument to bed once and for all. FWIW my view is the railcards should be validated, just like almost every other discount or subscription would be in life to stop you accidentally getting into trouble.

 

[Chiltern 165]

What if the railcard wasn't bought from Trainline? I have used various websites for ticket purchase and many of them 'remember' that I use a railcard, and it isn't a subscription in any of those cases.

True, but they should be able to manage adding railcards, and watching your railcard.
A good middle ground is making it warn you/ask you to renew if you are purchasing a ticket with a railcard type that has expired in the last month, or if you have not bought a ticket since it expired. Just an example, they can use their £122 million profit to hire a consultant to design it properly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 14:36 ==

The industry will trial live validation of railcards soon at the time of purchase

Good to hear!

just like almost every other discount or subscription would be in life

You didn't unselect "Prime next day" when ordering? We are charging you a £50 any-subscription next day delivery fee, and a £200 admin fee. Feel lucky we didn't give you a SJPN for breaking the Amazon Byelaws.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The industry will trial live validation of railcards soon at the time of purchase anyway which will put this tedious argument to bed once and for all. FWIW my view is the railcards should be validated, just like almost every other discount or subscription would be in life to stop you accidentally getting into trouble.

That just opens up a whole host of friction to the user that currently do not exist though.

What if my railcard expires next week but I am booking for the week after and I plan to renew?

What if I don't have a railcard yet but will be buying one before the time of travel?

What if I am booking a ticket for someone else who I don't have their railcard details?

What if I am booking a ticket with short notice (maybe I am at the station and my train is pulling in) and don't have the time to faff around trying to find my railcard details?

I'd hope any such system would allow you to tick a box to bypass the validation to allow for such use cases as above, but given how many system changes like this I have seen that have been consumer hostile, I have my doubts.

 

[mmh]

Apps / websites which don't remember your preferences are annoying. All the ticket buying apps on my phone remember if you used a railcard last time, including Trainsplit. But hey, it's Trainline and they're evil or something.

 

[AlterEgo]

That just opens up a whole host of friction to the user that currently do not exist though.

Agreed, but it's friction that would exist anywhere else you wanted to get a discount and which the railway has not implemented due to various limitations. May as well moan about scratching to find your Nectar card in my view. But this has been done to death now in another thread and the railway is implementing it on a trial basis, so we will see how it goes.

 

[Haywain]

May as well moan about scratching to find your Nectar card in my view.

When you purchase online from Sainsbury's you don't have to add or validate a Nectar card each time. It's in the account details. And with many other websites discount entitlements are remembered.

 

[AlterEgo]

When you purchase online from Sainsbury's you don't have to add or validate a Nectar card each time. It's in the account details. And with many other websites discount entitlements are remembered.

Indeed, as it should be. They'd soon unremember them too if you closed your account or stopped paying for whatever discount subscription you had.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed, as it should be. They'd soon unremember them too if you closed your account or stopped paying for whatever discount subscription you had.

And yet railcards should be different ?

 

[AlterEgo]

And yet railcards should be different ?

I'm arguing they should be the same. If they're applied, it's because they are valid and verified for use, like they examples you gave. If they are not valid, they are not applied.

Try closing your Clubcard and trying to get Clubcard prices or stop paying for Prime and trying to get the discounts it brings.

 

[35B]

Agreed, but it's friction that would exist anywhere else you wanted to get a discount and which the railway has not implemented due to various limitations. May as well moan about scratching to find your Nectar card in my view. But this has been done to death now in another thread and the railway is implementing it on a trial basis, so we will see how it goes.

The financial impact is rather different to that of a forgotten Nectar card though.

The railway needs to provide straightforward and practical means to deal with the edge cases (purchasing before being eligible for an age restricted card, early renewals, purchasing on behalf of others) rather than wishing them away and saying "well, it's not that common". Otherwise this will be seen as a stealth fare increase, and (IMHO rightly) as exploitation of those least able to afford it.

 

[Adam Williams]

The industry will trial live validation of railcards soon at the time of purchase anyway which will put this tedious argument to bed once and for all

And at that point, people can (and should) make their own mind up as to how successful the idea (and its implementation!) has been.

 

[Haywain]

I'm arguing they should be the same. If they're applied, it's because they are valid and verified for use, like they examples you gave. If they are not valid, they are not applied.

Try closing your Clubcard and trying to get Clubcard prices or stop paying for Prime and trying to get the discounts it brings.

The difference is that you're not going to be buying stuff 3 months before you need it, generally.

 

[AlterEgo]

The financial impact is rather different to that of a forgotten Nectar card though.

The railway needs to provide straightforward and practical means to deal with the edge cases (purchasing before being eligible for an age restricted card, early renewals, purchasing on behalf of others) rather than wishing them away and saying "well, it's not that common". Otherwise this will be seen as a stealth fare increase, and (IMHO rightly) as exploitation of those least able to afford it.

My hot take is nobody will *really* give a toss about this and in reality the railway doesn’t have to listen. I already set out my idea for a workaround for this in the locked thread and I'm not bored enough to rehash it again.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The industry will trial live validation of railcards soon at the time of purchase anyway which will put this tedious argument to bed once and for all. FWIW my view is the railcards should be validated, just like almost every other discount or subscription would be in life to stop you accidentally getting into trouble.

How will this work for me buying an advance 3 months prior to travel, with a railcard that expires in 2 months time?

 

[sabanda]

How will this work for me buying an advance 3 months prior to travel, with a railcard that expires in 2 months time?

Similar question here - I routinely buy tickets on behalf of an elderly relative, who isn't particularly confident when it comes to travelling by train, but don't actually have a copy of her Railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

How will this work for me buying an advance 3 months prior to travel, with a railcard that expires in 2 months time?

Please refer to the other thread. It's here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...additional-checks-when-buying-tickets.299891/

This has all been done before.

 

[35B]

Please refer to the other thread. It's here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...additional-checks-when-buying-tickets.299891/

This has all been done before.

No, it's all been debated before and partial answers at most provided which largely amount to "suck it up". The sensible edge cases are knowable and predictable, and both can and should be catered for sensibly and pragmatically. They are also edge cases that apply to those that the railway is trying to appeal to by having railcards in the first place.

 

[SuspectUsual]

They are also edge cases that apply to those that the railway is trying to appeal to by having railcards in the first place.

And also they're edge cases that are most relevant with advance tickets, something the railway invented relatively recently (and a long time after the invention of railcards) and continues to market quite aggressively

 

[mmh]

This has all been done before.

"Someone's talked about that in the past so let's not again" makes for an unusual sort of forum.

This could move to the previous thread were it not for the forum's slightly schizophrenic approach of frowning on "off topic" discussion while simultaneously closing old threads where discussion could be "on topic."

 

[AlterEgo]

No, it's all been debated before and partial answers at most provided which largely amount to "suck it up".

The railway is already telling you to suck it up multiple ways with barely any political consequences. I am but a realist.

As @Adam Williams says, we will have to wait and see what the implementation is like and what the outcomes are before we discuss it further. I will bet a tenner that nobody listens to moaning about "it wasn't designed like this but we used to be able to claim the discount before having the railcard meaning it might cost me up to three months validity across a period of 12 years or maybe even none at all" - all while the railway takes reasonable steps to protect its revenue while preventing (mostly younger) people from falling into accidental jeopardy like criminal proceedings or massive demands for debt payments.

Will it be a terrible implementation with bad consequences? We will see! It is the railway after all, so it's anyone's guess.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I will bet a tenner that nobody listens to moaning about "it wasn't designed like this but we used to be able to claim the discount before having the railcard meaning it might cost me up to three months validity across a period of 12 years or maybe even none at all" - all while the railway takes reasonable steps to protect its revenue while preventing (mostly younger) people from falling into accidental jeopardy like criminal proceedings or massive demands for debt payments

"The railway" is in this case going to be marking its own homework, so yes, I suspect you're right

(Not sure about the 3 months in 12 years argument though. If the validation is "you don't have a railcard that will be valid on the date of travel - buy one before you can buy your ticket" its potentially 3 months every year for regular users of advances, surely?)

But yes, we will see.

I am but a realist

In this instance, I suspect realist and pessimist are one and the same thing