Trainline selling misleading tickets

[Chiltern 165]

((Note: I did not receive any penalties, rather I am seeking opinions if this was my fault, trainline doing bad practice or if there is some obscure rule I totally missed.))

On a recent journey I used trainline to buy an open return (Waterloo-Alton at 22:23 on the 28th of August). Upon purchase it seemingly chose to sell an Evening Out return, instead of a true open ticket (though it did display in a menu I didn’t pay close attention to). This is despite the fact that there were no would’ve been no return trains by the time I arrived to Alton.

I found this out (much to my horror) when presenting my return the following day - luckily I had a sympathetic guard who told me to book a single instead.

Is this a legal/allowed practice for trainline to do? It seems very misleading to sell tickets as “open” and make then look as if no date is attached. Additionally, they are selling tickets where there is no return under the conditions.

 

[Crithylum]

There have been threads on this before. Search for “definition of open return”.
Although I thought Trainline made you select a train before purchasing a ticket?

 

[Chiltern 165]

There have been threads on this before. Search for “definition of open return”.
Although I thought Trainline made you select a train before purchasing a ticket?

Only for an outbound.


This is how they call it

 

[SaltAndVinegar]

Wow, that really requires you to be alert/switched on… and go out of your way revealing more ticket options to get a ticket that will actually be valid to return if you depart that late on a Friday.

The day return tickets are prioritised to give a lower headline price, then you have to ”see more” to see anything with extended validity.

The first possible return isn’t until 0614 the following day, when that ticket would be out of validity.

They also advertise “allocated seating” which I don’t think is true on these SWR services.

 

[Watershed]

It trips up a lot of people because 'open return' is generally understood as meaning a ticket which can be used to return within a month - not just a ticket that is flexible (on the return leg). But Trainline persist in this misleading use of the term.

In terms of not checking for valid return journeys, this wouldn't be an issue if they only showed period return tickets that are valid for a month...

 

[Chiltern 165]

Wow, that really requires you to be alert/switched on… and go out of your way revealing more ticket options to get a ticket that will actually be valid to return if you depart that late on a Friday.

The day return tickets are prioritised to give a lower headline price, then you have to ”see more” to see anything with extended validity.

The first possible return isn’t until 0614 the following day, when that ticket would be out of validity.

another misleading thing is it makes it look like an actual open return - it replaces the date for a return with an “Open” text.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2026 ==

It trips up a lot of people because 'open return' is generally understood as meaning a ticket which can be used to return within a month - not just a ticket that is flexible (on the return leg). But Trainline persist in this misleading use of the term.

In terms of not checking for valid return journeys, this wouldn't be an issue if they only showed period return tickets that are valid for a month...

Would it be worth complaining to the Rail Onbudsman or Trading Standards? This sort of thing could get someone prosecuted…

Im considering moving to RFtickets does it support open and does it support railcards?

 

[SaltAndVinegar]

another misleading thing is it makes it look like an actual open return - it replaces the date for a return with an “Open” text.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2026 ==


Would it be worth complaining to the Rail Onbudsman or Trading Standards? This sort of thing could get someone prosecuted…

Im considering moving to RFtickets does it support open and does it support railcards?

The forum’s site (TrainSplit/Raileasy powered) will sell flexible returns and makes it clearer if they’re same day or not.

 

[waterpoo]

It's been like that for quite a while now, don't you have to select which particular open return ticket you want before paying though? So I guess they would just say it's your own fault for not reading it properly.

I'm guessing they do it for marketing reasons, so they can say we have 'anytime tickets Open returns from £xx.xx' and the £xx.xx is in fact only for the cheapest return ie evening out return.

That's lucky you had a nice guard though given the strict liability.

 

[AlterEgo]

This has been covered before. An open return ticket is one where the return leg is open and not fixed to a specific train. It is not necessarily one which is valid for a certain length of time. The confusion arises because there used to be an Open Return ticket (now called the Anytime Return) valid on the return for a month.

I agree the movable definition isn't helpful. Only about half of the forum userbase interpret it in the way you do, and a fifth agree with the definition given by Trainline. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-is-an-open-return.291624/

 

[Hadders]

The term 'Open Return' really needs to be binned off by retailers and the industry, as it just causes confusion as we are seeing in this case and in the thread when this topic was discussed previously.

Instead, maybe there should be terminology ike 'return same day' and 'return within 30 days', or something similar.

 

[flitwickbeds]

The confusion arises because there used to be an Open Return ticket (now called the Anytime Return) valid on the return for a month.

Even this is confusing because "Anytime Return" could be taken to mean return same day, with peak travel permitted (as opposed to same day return but restricted to off peak times).

There is also (at least on Thameslink) an "Off Peak Return" where the return is valid for a month, different to an "Off Peak Day Return" which is only valid to return same day. In this case the definition of "peak time" for the return is only between (from memory) 17:30 until 18:30 instead of the usual peak period on Thameslink which is 4pm-7pm - which has caused me countless arguments at the barriers at Farringdon.

I also regularly get sold an off-peak *day* return at the ticket office when asking for "an off peak return to Farringdon", which then has to be swapped for what I asked for, an "off peak return" which does cause confusion for some staff as to what the difference is!

And if you ask my Dad what an "open return" is he would say a ticket valid for return same day but not fixed to a specific train, because that's what he has always asked for at the ticket office for day trips to the football.

So yes, the terminology around these return-valid-for-a-month and "open" tickets does need to be clarified.

 

[saismee]

On GA the default ticket is a Weekend Return when travelling from London to an East Anglia destination using the Open Return option. It does not permit same-day return, and requires passengers to excess it to an Off-peak return. This is a £14.20 excess for Liverpool Street to Norwich, but the trouble is that passengers will show up 30s before their train is leaving, then kick up a big fuss because they won't be able to get it.

Trainline and TrainPal/Trip need to sort this out and make it clearer. All it would take is to not have any option pre-selected, as then the user would be more likely to read what they're buying. The forum site's design is ideal, but they won't do that, will they?

 

[Chiltern 165]

Even this is confusing because "Anytime Return" could be taken to mean return same day, with peak travel permitted (as opposed to same day return but restricted to off peak times).

There is also (at least on Thameslink) an "Off Peak Return" where the return is valid for a month, different to an "Off Peak Day Return" which is only valid to return same day. In this case the definition of "peak time" for the return is only between (from memory) 17:30 until 18:30 instead of the usual peak period on Thameslink which is 4pm-7pm - which has caused me countless arguments at the barriers at Farringdon.

I also regularly get sold an off-peak *day* return at the ticket office when asking for "an off peak return to Farringdon", which then has to be swapped for what I asked for, an "off peak return" which does cause confusion for some staff as to what the difference is!

And if you ask my Dad what an "open return" is he would say a ticket valid for return same day but not fixed to a specific train, because that's what he has always asked for at the ticket office for day trips to the football.

So yes, the terminology around these return-valid-for-a-month and "open" tickets does need to be clarified.

If you look at post 3 you can see what Trainline describe it as.

Is selling same-day returns on trips without a possible return allowed??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2026 ==

On GA the default ticket is a Weekend Return when travelling from London to an East Anglia destination using the Open Return option. It does not permit same-day return, and requires passengers to excess it to an Off-peak return. This is a £14.20 excess for Liverpool Street to Norwich, but the trouble is that passengers will show up 30s before their train is leaving, then kick up a big fuss because they won't be able to get it.

Trainline and TrainPal/Trip need to sort this out and make it clearer. All it would take is to not have any option pre-selected, as then the user would be more likely to read what they're buying. The forum site's design is ideal, but they won't do that, will they?

Here is another one:

Choosing return just sells 1 month returns.

So choosing open sells what most people won’t consider “open”, yet choosing return will sell what most people consider an “open”. . .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2026 ==

 

[Adam Williams]

Is selling same-day returns on trips without a possible return allowed??

If you are buying an open return ticket you are opting out of using a journey planner for the return half of the journey. You are asserting "I don't need the assistance of a journey planner to plan a return trip for me". In the same way that by using BR Fares to purchase just a ticket, you are opting out of needing a journey planner entirely.

To then turn around and complain that it allows you to purchase tickets that cannot be used is just silly. If you go to a ticket office or use a TVM tomorrow and insist on it they'll probably sell you a ticket to Bewdley for travel on the 7th. This is despite no trains running as part of the SVR commuter trial on Mondays. Does that make the ticket office irresponsible for giving you what you asked for?

Passengers need to take some personal responsibility for making choices like these. Could there be more guard-rails in place? Perhaps, but I can also think of some obscure edge cases where there may be some benefit to holding a ticket that nonetheless cannot be entirely used (where Break of Journey is permitted, for example). If you want the assurance that there is a return itinerary, plan a defined return trip and then select a flexible ticket afterwards.

 

[saismee]

Passengers need to take some responsibility for making choices like these. Could there be more guard-rails in place? Perhaps, but I can also think of some obscure edge cases where there may be some benefit to holding a ticket that nonetheless cannot be entirely used (where Break of Journey is permitted, for example).

Yes they need to take more responsibility for themselves, but they don't, and they won't. Instead it is the frontline staff who get the abuse for the passenger not reading what they spent their 100 pounds on.

There needs to be a bit more emphasis on the return restrictions, forcing the passenger to select the ticket themselves at least shifts the blame solely on them. I think they'll be more likely to read the options if they have to make a decision.

 

[Adam Williams]

Yes they need to take more responsibility for themselves, but they don't, and they won't. Instead it is the frontline staff who get the abuse for the passenger not reading what they spent their 100 pounds on.

It's not just a rail thing either, there appears to be a collective shift away from personal responsibility in society in this country. It seems we must expend great resources protecting adults from themselves. See also: replacing almost all soft drinks with dreadful sweetener-filled versions, because people can't be trusted to use some common sense and consume them in moderation.

 

[Chiltern 165]

If you are buying an open return ticket you are opting out of using a journey planner for the return half of the journey. You are asserting "I don't need the assistance of a journey planner to plan a return trip for me". In the same way that by using BR Fares to purchase just a ticket, you are opting out of needing a journey planner entirely.

To then turn around and complain that it allows you to purchase tickets that cannot be used is just silly. If you go to a ticket office or use a TVM tomorrow and insist on it they'll probably sell you a ticket to Bewdley for travel on the 7th. This is despite no trains running as part of the SVR commuter trial on Mondays. Does that make the ticket office irresponsible for giving you what you asked for?

Passengers need to take some personal responsibility for making choices like these. Could there be more guard-rails in place? Perhaps, but I can also think of some obscure edge cases where there may be some benefit to holding a ticket that nonetheless cannot be entirely used (where Break of Journey is permitted, for example). If you want the assurance that there is a return itinerary, plan a defined return trip and then select a flexible ticket afterwards.

Read #4 and #5.

 

[saismee]

See also: replacing almost all soft drinks with dreadful sweetener-filled versions, because people can't be trusted to use some common sense and consume them in moderation.

You can't even get a hot chocolate when upstairs in The Bell (Wetherspoons) in Norwich because of the sugar tax!

The railway is certainly one case where I think we should be putting up extra guard rails for the less intelligent passengers... because it makes my job/life easier

 

[Adam Williams]

Read #4 and #5.

I have. I disagree with Watershed (the term is used in this way by more retailers that matter than not - it's not simply a Trainline thing) and the forum poll is not representative of the wider public.

As long as the options are sufficiently broken down after search is issued, I don't see the problem.

 

[Chiltern 165]

Yes they need to take more responsibility for themselves, but they don't, and they won't. Instead it is the frontline staff who get the abuse for the passenger not reading what they spent their 100 pounds on.

There needs to be a bit more emphasis on the return restrictions, forcing the passenger to select the ticket themselves at least shifts the blame solely on them. I think they'll be more likely to read the options if they have to make a decision.

Yet Trainline themself sell an “Anytime open return” and “Off peak open return” described as “Return within 1 month, anytime/offpeak”?

Therefore, when a customer presses the “Open return” button shouldn’t they expect that, not an invalid return?

 

[Adam Williams]

The "Anytime Open Return" wording comes from SWR, not the retailer.

 

[SaltAndVinegar]

A lot of us on here are above average in terms of general ticketing knowledge and competence, it seems easy to forget when you’re in that bubble that what’s obvious to you isn’t obvious to someone who doesn’t go out of their way to participate in railway enthusiast forums. A lot of ticketing sites could benefit from improved UX to prevent these accidental purchases.

Not everyone’s going to expect, especially if purchasing in a hurry on the way to the station, that their “open” ticket (with no real fixed definition) will not be valid for even the next possible opportunity to return, as in OP’s case. It’s very easy to see the headline price, miss “Day” and hit purchase.

 

[Chiltern 165]

The "Anytime Open Return" wording comes from SWR, not the retailer.

Not to sound rude, but that doesn't matter, it is their app, therefore their words. Me (nor any consumer) care who pays the person who wrote it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2026 ==

Not everyone’s going to expect, especially if purchasing in a hurry on the way to the station, that their “open” ticket (with no real fixed definition) will not be valid for even the next possible opportunity to return, as in OP’s case. It’s very easy to see the headline price, miss “Day” and hit purchase.

Quite. Especially as Trainline visually removes the dates when you choose open return, before changing it back to same day.

 

[IanXC]

Single leg pricing of course removes almost every problem described in this thread so far.

 

[robbeech]

This has been covered before. An open return ticket is one where the return leg is open and not fixed to a specific train. It is not necessarily one which is valid for a certain length of time. The confusion arises because there used to be an Open Return ticket (now called the Anytime Return) valid on the return for a month.

I agree the movable definition isn't helpful. Only about half of the forum userbase interpret it in the way you do, and a fifth agree with the definition given by Trainline. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-is-an-open-return.291624/

As time passes more and more people using the railway are unfamiliar with ‘old’ terms for ticket types.

The term 'Open Return' really needs to be binned off by retailers and the industry, as it just causes confusion as we are seeing in this case and in the thread when this topic was discussed previously.

Instead, maybe there should be terminology ike 'return same day' and 'return within 30 days', or something similar.

The only significant flaw I see with this is this sort of thing is selected before connection with the database. With so many flows ONLY having day returns and so many flows ONLY having 30 day returns and then the number of flows that have further differences like the evening out or the weekend returns then it’s a bit tricky to implement.

If you go to a ticket office or use a TVM tomorrow and insist on it they'll probably sell you a ticket to Bewdley for travel on the 7th. This is despite no trains running as part of the SVR commuter trial on Mondays. Does that make the ticket office irresponsible for giving you what you asked for?

A reasonable member of ticket office staff is likely to warn a passenger that what they’re trying to achieve may not be possible. A reasonably programmed ticket machine may well notify them of no trains. A reasonable online retailer would display the information suitably which they could choose to read or ignore. A revenue focussed appalling retailer would do everything in its power to get the sale regardless of the consequences for the customer.

Single leg pricing of course removes almost every problem described in this thread so far.

Indeed it would. However, how much would the tickets be?
The off peak return is £44.80, the evening return is £23. There’s not a chance they’d change the £22 evening single to £11.50 because lots of people will buy a single and an anytime day single the next day and they’d be taking 20% from their revenue.
We know that where possible all fare changes need to be revenue positive and it’s a bonus if it can slip under the radar.

 

[mmh]

The solution: scrap day returns and have all returns valid for a month.

It's simple and would remove all confusion, so it would never happen because Railway.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The solution: scrap day returns and have all returns valid for a month.

It's simple and would remove all confusion, so it would never happen because Railway.

It would also increase fare evasion because people would keep reusing the Return portion until it got clipped during a ticket inspection if they use stations that are ungated.

 

[Kite159]

The solution: scrap day returns and have all returns valid for a month.

It's simple and would remove all confusion, so it would never happen because Railway.

If anything it will probably be scrapping period (open) returns and move towards single leg pricing. Similar to what happened on the ECML.

 

[robbeech]

The solution: scrap day returns and have all returns valid for a month.

It's simple and would remove all confusion, so it would never happen because Railway.

From a price point of view the railway would be fully on board with that so it’s not as unlikely as you might think.

 

[J.C.]

The solution: scrap day returns and have all returns valid for a month.

It's simple and would remove all confusion, so it would never happen because Railway.

Be careful what you wish for.
The fare won't drop to the day return fare, it'll rise to the month return fare.