West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?

[SCDR_WMR]

Why couldnt the new service skip Alderley too? There's no reason why it has to call there. If LNWR deem it not worth their time, then so be it.

One would like to thing this has been introduced based on planned passenger numbers along with future housing developments near stations. There will be a reason why it isn't calling there, be that resilience or otherwise.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One would like to thing this has been introduced based on planned passenger numbers along with future housing developments near stations. There will be a reason why it isn't calling there, be that resilience or otherwise.

What is the future housing developments projection figure for the Alderley Edge area that will increase the current population there?

 

[lowe1409]

What is the future housing developments projection figure for the Alderley Edge area that will increase the current population there?

Asides from a odd few mansions here and there, not a lot. AFIK there's no plans for any development in the area. The closest is a patch of land between Wilmslow High school and the Bypass on the southern side, which would be better served by Wilmslow station anyway.

 

[Bald Rick]

Alderley Edge will lose roughly half its services to Crewe, and all its services to the Airport (and other stations up the Styal Line).

 

[ayubdaud]

What is a problem is that it's skipping Alderley Edge while stopping at Holmes Chapel and Sandbach. I'm inclined to give WMT the benefit of the doubt - I don't know why it's being skipped and I'm sure there's some factor that apparently made it unviable - but since it's not a pathing issue if it's just taking over the current NT path, it makes very little sense. Alderley Edge - Manchester Airport by train was done 5,360 times last year, which is not a huge figure (note there's also a bus that runs every 1-2 hours) compared to how many people are doing the same journey by car, but if passenger stats was what determined whether a call makes sense or not, it'd also skip Sandbach and Holmes Chapel.

It's taking over the NT path in a quantum sense, but the path to/from Airport and Crewe is different to allow the rest of the path to work, based on how the paths are currently presented for Dec 26.

 

[frodshamfella]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

I wondered that, seems a bit odd

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I wondered that, seems a bit odd

As has been pointed out on here many times already, it's not about connecting Birmingham to Manchester Airport (though there will be people making that journey due to more choice of flights/destinations).

It's almost 2 services that cross over into another. It allows Stoke and Stone a direct train to Birmingham again, and allows them a connection to the airport too. It also allows the likes of Willenhall/Darlaston/Tame Bridge a quicker connection to Stafford for connections north etc.

Nobody is expecting it to be full of end-to-end travellers. But it will be busy on the whole.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 10:55 ==

Asides from a odd few mansions here and there, not a lot. AFIK there's no plans for any development in the area. The closest is a patch of land between Wilmslow High school and the Bypass on the southern side, which would be better served by Wilmslow station anyway.

Exactly. Would probably be classed as a low growth area then given it's relatively low current patronage.

 

[Transilien]

Will this service do anything to help the notoriously overcrowded Manchester-Birmingham cross country services? Because if not, this service has no point in existing.

 

[lowe1409]

Will this service do anything to help the notoriously overcrowded Manchester-Birmingham cross country services? Because if not, this service has no point in existing.

I'm sure LNWR will do their usual thing and offer 'LNWR & Northern' routed tickets via the airport as well as directly supplementing stoke-wolverhampton-birmingham

 

[Bumpkin]

Will this service do anything to help the notoriously overcrowded Manchester-Birmingham cross country services? Because if not, this service has no point in existing.

As SCDR_WMR said just before your post, this train isn't necessarily designed for end to end travellers but is two services stitched together to serve different travel patterns. A Stoke and surrounding areas service to Manchester Airport and Birmingham, and a connection for stations on the Walsall-Wolverhampton line connections northwards to Crewe and Stafford.

 

[jfollows]

I'm surprised about Alderley Edge being omitted; when the paths were first defined in or before 2018 they required the service to be semi-fast to give enough turn-around time at Crewe, and indeed generally prevented Styal calls because of this. But the post-2018 timetable seems to have sorted this out, and whilst I can see why Chelford and Goostrey don't get calls I'm surprised if Alderley Edge doesn't.

If the service had existed years ago when I used to go to Birmingham frequently then, yes, I'd have used it. I avoided the dreadful overcrowded XC services even though going via Stockport is a permitted route, and I'd use connecting services into/out of the Birmingham-Liverpool services at Crewe.

As for travelling by train to airports, I can only say that my experience will hardly be unique in that I've used the train to Liverpool, Leeds/Bradford, Birmingham, Gatwick, Stansted and Heathrow airports in the past from quick memory. For me I'm happy taking a train for a single hop journey in preference to flying from my very local Manchester airport and having to change. Ironically I've given up using the train to/from Manchester Airport because it became too unreliable and pay for a taxi instead nowadays.

 

[tutacre]

People often don't realise that Transport for Wales have limited calls at Alderley Edge too, not huge numbers at the moment, but 2/3 trains most days. If Alderley Edge does need more trains from the Crewe direction (which is somewhat of a stretch, given vast majority of traffic is mainly to/from Manchester), a couple of select Class 197 services may be viable in the future. 1W01 also goes fast to Manchester via Styal.

 

[The Planner]

Will this service do anything to help the notoriously overcrowded Manchester-Birmingham cross country services? Because if not, this service has no point in existing.

Of course it does, its serving entirely different markets.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having spoken to a few contacts who use the Styal Line, I shall note one particular comment....."How much extra time will this add to a regular working-day direct train journey from Gatley to Wilmslow and return"

 

[lowe1409]

Having spoken to a few contacts who use the Styal Line, I shall note one particular comment....."How much extra time will this add to a regular working-day direct train journey from Gatley to Wilmslow and return"

Assuming the airport to Piccadilly stopper retains it's timings, and judging the timings based on the timings at Crewe for the LNR service to Birmingham via stoke, id estimate leaving gatley at the same time, arriving in Wilmslow around 10 minutes later than at present. And on the return, leaving Wilmslow about the same time northbound, getting to gatley at the same time.

Unless that 10 minutes In Wilmslow in the morning would make them late, hence having yo travel on the earlier service, the impact to working days would be almost negligible

 

[Rail Ranger]

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced - alderleyedge.com

www.alderleyedge.com

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced. I have sent a correction pointing out that Alderley Edge to Crewe will be reduced to one train per hour from May 2027. The first comment details remaining Northern services between Manchester Airport and Crewe from May 2027.

 

[Kite159]

I can see the merit in extending the Crewe - Stafford shuttle back to Birmingham via Tame Bridge (maybe at the same time putting the Shrewsbury stopper back to running via Smethwick to cut journey time lol). But extending to Manchester Airport just seems a repeat of the failed 2019 (?) timetable of London - Rugeley/Liverpool via Birmingham.

At the moment the shuttle can use bay platforms 2-4 at Crewe, but extending to the Airport it will need to use P1 or P5 (P6 if they want it to cross the WCML twice). And Crewe is a busy junction station where an on time Manchester bound service can lose time waiting for a platform, especially if it is planned to run behind a fast service.

How many people are crying out for a direct train from Longport to Manchester Airport etc?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Also the remaining Northern service into Crewe will stand in platform 1 at Crewe from 58 to 46 from May 2027 unless it goes into a siding (which may be the plan).

 

[OrangeJuice]

Also the remaining Northern service into Crewe will stand in platform 1 at Crewe from 58 to 46 from May 2027 unless it goes into a siding (which may be the plan).

This is what has happened on Sundays and the evenings before where it shunts to the siding outside platform 1 on the north side

 

[jfollows]

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced - alderleyedge.com

www.alderleyedge.com

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced. I have sent a correction pointing out that Alderley Edge to Crewe will be reduced to one train per hour from May 2027. The first comment details remaining Northern services between Manchester Airport and Crewe from May 2027.

Thanks, the first comment text:

Some improvement to frequencies & hours of operation as well as Sunday service.

Northern will retain route knowledge on early morning services and some positioning additional trains, timetable subject to validation.
Unfortunately, insufficient capacity on the route to include calls at Alderley Edge throughout most of the day while also robustly linking the paths north & south of Crewe.
The industry view clear that performance of a myriad of services on the WCML cannot be compromised. Extensive performance modelling has been undertaken over the summer.

Crewe to Manchester Airport
Service
• Transfers to West Midlands Trains Business Unit from May 2027 timetable change
• Northern operates limited services Manchester Airport-Wilmslow/Crewe
EWD)
2A49FA 0044 Crewe - Piccadilly (MX)
• 2A80FA 0546 Wilmslow - Piccadilly (EWD)
• 2A81FA 0616 Crewe - Piccadilly (EWD)
• 2A86FB 2144 Wilmslow - Piccadilly (EWD)
• 2F19FB 2244 Wilmslow - Liverpool (EWD)

• 2A91FA 0523 Piccadilly - Crewe (EWD)

• 2A92FA 0636 Piccadilly - Crewe (EWD)

• 2A03FA 2136 Piccadilly - Wilmslow (EWD)

• 2A04FA 2236 Piccadilly - Wilmslow

 

[frodshamfella]

As has been pointed out on here many times already, it's not about connecting Birmingham to Manchester Airport (though there will be people making that journey due to more choice of flights/destinations).

It's almost 2 services that cross over into another. It allows Stoke and Stone a direct train to Birmingham again, and allows them a connection to the airport too. It also allows the likes of Willenhall/Darlaston/Tame Bridge a quicker connection to Stafford for connections north etc.

Nobody is expecting it to be full of end-to-end travellers. But it will be busy on the whole.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:55 ==

Quite , it wont be full of passengers from Birmingham going to Manchester Airport, there is no point for the air passenger.

 

[lowe1409]

I find it weird Northern are still running the 21.36 Piccadilly to Wilmslow as LNWR in their press release say they'll be running until 2200 on weekdays (the 21.36 forms the 22.02 from the airport to Wilmslow)

 

[Watershed]

I find it weird Northern are still running the 21.36 Piccadilly to Wilmslow as LNWR in their press release say they'll be running until 2200 on weekdays (the 21.36 forms the 22.02 from the airport to Wilmslow)

Is it possible it's just one of the route retention runs? Piccadilly is a fair size depot, one of Northern's largest, and as per this post, all links there sign the routes to Crewe (via Cheadle Hulme & the Airport). So more than one route retention run a day may be needed to keep route knowledge up.

 

[lowe1409]

Is it possible it's just one of the route retention runs? Piccadilly is a fair size depot, one of Northern's largest, and as per this post, all links there sign the routes to Crewe (via Cheadle Hulme & the Airport). So more than one route retention run a day may be needed to keep route knowledge up.

They'll still be running plenty of ECS too. At Present, I know at least the 06:32 and 21:32 arrive ECS from Wilmslow, and one of the Wilmslow starts/finishes in the evening swaps with an alderley edge diagram too which I can see becoming an ECS to/from Alderley edge sidings. Though can guards retain route knowledge through ECS/Pass rides

 

[londonteacher]

Quite , it wont be full of passengers from Birmingham going to Manchester Airport, there is no point for the air passenger.

Why no point? The airlines at Manchester Airport and the subsequent destinations are much larger than that at Birmingham. Manchester has more long haul destinations.

 

[lowe1409]

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced - alderleyedge.com

www.alderleyedge.com

Train services from Alderley Edge to be reduced. I have sent a correction pointing out that Alderley Edge to Crewe will be reduced to one train per hour from May 2027. The first comment details remaining Northern services between Manchester Airport and Crewe from May 2027.

Going back and looking at the article however has a couple of interesting comments from the LNR spokesperson

"Passengers at Alderley Edge will retain two trains per hour to Manchester city centre and Crewe, with the option of changing trains at Wilmslow to reach the airport."

Does this mean that there is a potential that the Current Terminator will run all the way to Crewe? I doubt it and assume it's poorly worded but leaves some room for speculation

Some councillor also mentioned after a meeting involving the TOCs:

"We were told that Northern would look at the possibility of providing a third hourly service during both the morning and evening peaks, which would at least help mitigate some of the reduction at the busiest times. As yet, however, we haven't received confirmation that this will happen."

What is the likelihood of this happening? What would such a service look like? Would it just terminate at Alderley or run all the way to Crewe? Would it run via Styal lines or Stockport? Where abouts in the timetable could a service fit?

 

[Stossgebet]

Why no point? The airlines at Manchester Airport and the subsequent destinations are much larger than that at Birmingham. Manchester has more long haul destinations.

If you are wiling to go by train to Manchester, then you should be willing to fly from Birmingham, with the many more global connections than Manchester has, by using Star Alliance or Skyteam, knowing that your connection or subsequent missed connection, means you get re-routed and compensated, verses the hassle of dealing with insurance first, should the wcml let you down.

 

[lowe1409]

If you are wiling to go by train to Manchester, then you should be willing to fly from Birmingham, with the many more global connections than Manchester has, by using Star Alliance or Skyteam, knowing that your connection or subsequent missed connection, means you get re-routed and compensated, verses the hassle of dealing with insurance first, should the wcml let you down.

Doesn't stop the 4 million or so passengers using the station at present who come from further than Greater Manchester. Leave yourself a bit of time, Airlines recommend arriving at least 3 hours early. By arriving over 3 hours before, you leave plenty of time that if things go to pot, other trains can get you there in time to be able to run to your gate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Talking of areas away from Manchester Airport, whatever became of the plans for the once-discussed services to and from Manchester Airport railway station from the West Yorkshire area?

What is the pathway situation currently prevailing at Manchester Airport railway station?

 

[cle]

If you are wiling to go by train to Manchester, then you should be willing to fly from Birmingham, with the many more global connections than Manchester has, by using Star Alliance or Skyteam, knowing that your connection or subsequent missed connection, means you get re-routed and compensated, verses the hassle of dealing with insurance first, should the wcml let you down.

Birmingham has far less global connections than Manchester. Because it is much more firmly in the Heathrow catchment, especially for long-haul. Maybe the odd India route (Birmingham area skews more India, Manchester and catchment more Pakistan - re disapora) - and even where they share feeders to hubs like AMS, CDG, FRA, DXB etc - Manchester has more frequency.

And you might see uptake from Tame Bridge, the new stations, etc - who are on the way towards MAN, Stafford even (which has way more service to B'ham Intl) - now see the appeal of a direct service.