SWR Class 458/4s: fleet status and withdrawal updates

[swr444]

We can't be far away from all 53 of the 701 diagrams being covered by - well - 701s, and the end of 458/4s in daily service.

There’s booked 458 work in the autumn timetable…

 

[WWTownEnth]

There’s booked 458 work in the autumn timetable…

Thanks. I find that really odd. Is it on the Windsors? Is it to allow some 450s to go over to the mainline for strengthening?

 

[swr444]

Thanks. I find that really odd. Is it on the Windsors? Is it to allow some 450s to go over to the mainline for strengthening?

It’s mainly during the peaks, when the Hounslow rounders are running from what I can see from our diagrams. Could be all day however.

 

[adc82140]

It kind of makes sense if they want to use some 450s for strengthening from the get-go, and then phase out the 458s as progress is made with the 701/5s. It's not like anyone else is waiting for the 458s.

 

[Phil R]

Probably a good precaution as leaf fall usually sees a number of units awaiting lathe work or wheel set changes at any time so will likely help prevent short forms or cancellations.

 

[WWTownEnth]

This must be the first day in 26 years that a 458 of some variety or other has not been carrying passengers on SWR……

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This must be the first day in 26 years that a 458 of some variety or other has not been carrying passengers on SWR……

For about 3 years roughly 2004 and 2007 I swear they didn’t carry passengers at all?

 

[JonathanH]

For about 3 years roughly 2004 and 2007 I swear they didn’t carry passengers at all?

It was about three weeks in 2006. There was a run down and ramp back up which took some time in each case.

 

[Goldfish62]

It was about three weeks in 2006. There was a run down and ramp back up which took some time in each case.

I remember the ramp up well. Given that some of the units had been in store for some time and already had a reputation for poor reliability Reading line services were initially severely impacted until SWT got a grip on the 458s.

 

[mansonlo49]

Following the departure to Long Marston of 458533, finally marks the end of 458/5’s and 460 carriages

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R61150/2026-09-16/detailed

 

[WWTownEnth]

Quite a poignant day for the 458s, all in all. The last 458/5 gone from SWR and all 458/4s finally out of passenger service (albeit with a temporary reprieve in Sept)

 

[43096]

For about 3 years roughly 2004 and 2007 I swear they didn’t carry passengers at all?

How would you know? You were knee-high to a grasshopper back then!

 

[Big Jumby 74]

albeit with a temporary reprieve in Sept

I noticed the post by a-another relating to 458 diagrams during the leaf fall season timetable this year. I suspect this is a worst case scenario by the planning Dept., in case they (458's) are still required to substitute for 701's over the next couple of months.

If I am correct, it is a good initiative which indicates to all concerned, which diagrams may revert to 8 car format on odd occasions over the next couple of months.

Personally it is my belief that the 458's will be gone (from a usage pov) by the Dec timetable change.

 

[Siemens Staines]

They may have been none out this morning but one pair of 2*458/4 are allocated vice 701 for this evening

458412 + 458423
16:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 17:32
17:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 19:11
19:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 20:42
21:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 22:36
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:16/09/2026 14:11

 

[Big Jumby 74]

For about 3 years roughly 2004 and 2007 I swear they didn’t carry passengers at all?

It was about three weeks in 2006. There was a run down and ramp back up which took some time in each case

The 458 issue at that time was related to the 2007 refranchise (442 or 458) as many may remember.

A select meeting was held in August 2006 to outline the proposed changes going forward, including details that the 442 lease would expire on 4-2-07 and would not be renewed, and in consequence the 458 fleet would be brought back to life to resume Reading line diagrams.

The rest, as the saying goes......!

 

[L303_BRK]

Any idea if the 458s will still be around come the end of November or so? Considering a London trip for em for them as I love the 334s haha

 

[Peter Sarf]

Any idea if the 458s will still be around come the end of November or so? Considering a London trip for em for them as I love the 334s haha

Welcome to the Forum.

Well..... It looks like the 458/4s will be kept on SWR for a few months only. That is for dwindling chances of them needing to be used. We started today with no 458/4s required (enough 701/0s). But if leaf fall season takes out enough 701s than it looks like three 458/4s will be available. After that it depends how-soon/if SWR want to re-deploy some of the 10 or so pairs of 450s used in suburbia to longer distance routes so as to lengthen those services from 8car to 12car as they were before Covid.

It might be nice to get the longer distance services back to pre-Covid levels of capacity by re-deploying 450s BUT my money is on SWR being really keen on removing one whole fleet of units in the name of standardisation. Then SWR can dispense with the crew training (or more likely dwindling competence) for the 458/4s and spare part inventory in depots. Remember SWR has only been using three pairs of 458/4s out of a pool of four pairs (so 8 units) for a number of weeks - the rest being stored at Bournemouth (13) and Strawberry Hill (7).

Given time there will be more 701s anyway. There are already 25 x 701/5 on SWR and some of those must be approaching entry into service.

 

[43096]

It was about three weeks in 2006. There was a run down and ramp back up which took some time in each case.

The Southern Electric Group has a feature on them, although the link is broken. It is available on the Internet Archive though, here: https://web.archive.org/web/2025011...es/rolling-stock/458-fall-and-rise/index.html

And as you say, it was about three weeks, the relevant section is quoted below:

As the additional seventeen Class 450 units, due in part to cover the withdrawals of 458s, had not started to be delivered by the summer, applied for a further extension to the exemption to the end of their franchise (February 2007) but this was refused. then announced that they would cease to operate the class on June 30th but use of up to three pairs of 458s on weekdays continued throughout July. Then in a surprise development, 8020 and 8029 had new DDA compliant passenger information displays fitted, though such displays are not the only factor in which the units are non DDA compliant. announced that three pairs of units would continue to run three diagrams (see below) until further notice. A pool of eight units used regularly emerged during August - 8013, 8018, 8019, 8020, 8021, 8028, 8029 and 8030. All had been fitted with new 40mm DDA compliant passenger information displays.

WM701/702
05+05 Wimbledon Park depot - Waterloo
05.50 Waterloo - Reading
07.42 Reading - Waterloo
09+12 Waterloo - Clapham yard
14+28 Clapham yard - Waterloo
14.50 Waterloo - Reading
16.42 Reading - Waterloo
18.20 Waterloo - Reading
19+50 Reading - Clapham yard

WM703/704
05+54 Clapham yard - Waterloo
06.20 Waterloo - Reading
08.12 Reading - Waterloo
09.50 Waterloo - Reading
11.42 Reading - Waterloo
13.20 Waterloo - Reading
15.12 Reading - Waterloo
16.50 Waterloo - Reading
18.42 Reading - Waterloo
20.20 Waterloo - Reading
22.12 Reading - Waterloo
23+50 Waterloo - Wimbledon Park depot

WM705/706
06+13 Clapham yard - Waterloo
06.50 Waterloo - Reading
08.42 Reading - Waterloo
10.20 Waterloo - Reading
12.12 Reading - Waterloo
13.50 Waterloo - Reading
15.42 Reading - Waterloo
17.20 Waterloo - Reading
18.52 Reading - Ascot
19+21 Ascot - Clapham yard

These diagrams ceased to be worked by class 458 units at the end of September but resumed on October 16th.

 

[swr444]

Welcome to the Forum.

Well..... It looks like the 458/4s will be kept on SWR for a few months only. That is for dwindling chances of them needing to be used. We started today with no 458/4s required (enough 701/0s). But if leaf fall season takes out enough 701s than it looks like three 458/4s will be available. After that it depends how-soon/if SWR want to re-deploy some of the 10 or so pairs of 450s used in suburbia to longer distance routes so as to lengthen those services from 8car to 12car as they were before Covid.

It might be nice to get the longer distance services back to pre-Covid levels of capacity by re-deploying 450s BUT my money is on SWR being really keen on removing one whole fleet of units in the name of standardisation. Then SWR can dispense with the crew training (or more likely dwindling competence) for the 458/4s and spare part inventory in depots. Remember SWR has only been using three pairs of 458/4s out of a pool of four pairs (so 8 units) for a number of weeks - the rest being stored at Bournemouth (13) and Strawberry Hill (7).

Given time there will be more 701s anyway. There are already 25 x 701/5 on SWR and some of those must be approaching entry into service.

It will also give them a chance to properly refurb the Desiro stock. Fingers crossed it'll actually happen this time

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It will also give them a chance to properly refurb the Desiro stock. Fingers crossed it'll actually happen this time

Is that on the cards? The orange grab handles on the 450 are ghastly.

 

[swr444]

Is that on the cards? The orange grab handles on the 450 are ghastly.

It’s been mentioned many times. The PIS was meant to be replaced years ago

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s been mentioned many times. The PIS was meant to be replaced years ago

Yes but SWR promised a lot of things, didn't they, from Portsmouth to Weymouth trains to exclusively Wessex Electrics on the Portsmouth fasts
I thought it was one of the many promises that ended up dead and buried.

 

[43096]

It’s been mentioned many times. The PIS was meant to be replaced years ago

Where has it been mentioned? The only Desiro refurbishment I am aware of for SWR was the one included in their franchise bid and that project concluded years ago.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

IIRC the franchise bid included a new PIS for the Desiros.

 

[DelW]

IIRC the franchise bid included a new PIS for the Desiros.

As TT-ONR-NRN said above, SWR promised many things that haven't happened, including 4tph to Portsmouth via the Direct (currently just 2tph off-peak, poorly spaced), and (back on topic), using the 458/4s to provide more/all 2+2 seating on Portsmouth services. None of these are likely to happen, why would the PIS upgrade be any different? SWR is a litany of broken promises, some attributable to covid but certainly not all. The last Desiros refurbs took way longer than planned too.

 

[Siemens Staines]

One pair of 458/4 is allocated to passenger services today which is shown as vice 701 on journeycheck (Thursday 17.09.26).

458412 + 458423
06:27 Twickenham to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 06:59
07:26 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:24
08:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 09:26
09:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 10:49
11:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 11:56
12:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:19
13:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:26
14:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:51
16:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:58
17:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:19
18:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:28
19:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:49
21:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:56
22:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:19
23:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 00:26
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:17/09/2026 03:22

A second 8-car set is shown vice 701 on journeycheck but this looks to have been revised since 0136 to be 701054

06:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:29
07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:52
09:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 09:56
10:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:19
11:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:26
12:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:49
14:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:58
15:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:19
16:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:28
17:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:49
19:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:56
20:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:19
21:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:26
22:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:49
00:03 London Waterloo to Staines due 00:43
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:17/09/2026 01:36

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How would you know? You were knee-high to a grasshopper back then!

I don't know how old you were when the Second World War broke out, but you still know it happened, right?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:21 ==

As TT-ONR-NRN said above, SWR promised many things that haven't happened, including 4tph to Portsmouth via the Direct (currently just 2tph off-peak, poorly spaced), and (back on topic), using the 458/4s to provide more/all 2+2 seating on Portsmouth services.

Hourly Portsmouth to Weymouth services was a particularly amusing one.

I'm not saying it won't happen -- if swr444 who AIAI tends to have good insider knowledge has heard that this will be revitalised, cool -- but it can't be assumed it's happening on the basis that it was an early First MTR franchise commitment alone.

I did say recently in the EMR 360 refurbishment that while I don't like a lot of the LCD replacements for orange LED displays -- for example, I think the 805/807 PIS is ghastly, and that on 172s scrolls infuriatingly slowly -- I do think green flip dot screens look a bit outdated, and the LCD screens fitted to the same casing on the 360s actually does look pretty good. I think that would be decent on the SWR Desiros too, along with the inevitable TV style screens on the side panels.

 

[Goldfish62]

The last Desiros refurbs took way longer than planned too.

Took far longer than planned and only did part of the job. In BR days it wouldn't have even been classed as a refurb, just routine repairs.

 

[Siemens Staines]

On Thursday it looks like there could possibly be a planned swap of 458(s) in store at Strawberry Hill?

5Q97 1046 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q53406/2026-09-17/detailed
5Q98 1315 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q53407/2026-09-17/detailed

5Q97 has departed with 458414 and 5Q98 is allocated 458428.

Whether or not 458414 returns to passenger service remains to be seen.

 

[Peter Sarf]

5Q97 has departed with 458414 and 5Q98 is allocated 458428.

Whether or not 458414 returns to passenger service remains to be seen.

Would I be right in thinking the 458/4s stored at Strawberry Hill are more likely to see action again than those way down in Bournemouth ?.

Also am l right to assume some rotation of 458/4s is likely so as to keep them healthy but also will have to happen if any in service have reached their deadline for a service/overhaul ?. (assuming here that SWR are not going to spend on unnecessary work).