Trainline selling misleading tickets

[Hadders]

SWR call their Anytime Returns "Anytime Open Returns" within the industry data, so I think it's a little unfair to say it's a retailer doing their own thing when they have no choice in the matter!

View attachment 211517

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks, at face value with no fees. Every British rail fare shown, railcard discounts included.

www.brfares.com

Anytime Open Return (South Western Railway) | National Rail

Looking for Anytime Open Return (South Western Railway)? A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

It's a very silly thing for them to do, though.

Every day is a school day! But my point still stands that the term 'open return' should be consigned to history. It's not just whether open return means same day or period, but we're seeing more evening restrictions as fares are 'simplified', which has the potential to cause more confusion.

 

[Titfield]

The challenge then is to come up with terminology which is unambiguous and easily understood.

 

[AF91]

Given the number of times I had to deal with trainline customers who had been sold tickets for trains that didn't exist when I was a station manager, I wouldn't touch trainline with a barge pole.

 

[MrJeeves]

Given the number of times I had to deal with trainline customers who had been sold tickets for trains that didn't exist when I was a station manager, I wouldn't touch trainline with a barge pole.

I'll refer back to @Adam Williams's post which I wholeheartedly agree with:

I find the attitude of frontline staff towards Trainline to be very odd at the best of times, particularly when it's a TOC that uses a Trainline whitelabel for their own retail website and app!

There are far too many "urban legends" about Trainline e.g. "making up trains that don't exist".

I don't think they're flawless by any measure, but I think their share of the market means that most passengers who don't read what they're buying are statistically most likely to have purchased from Trainline.

Every time I've seen this, it has been the TOC doing poor things to services in the timetable, or some other mistake or misunderstanding of industry systems.

I bet some people took joy in blaming Trainline when a Network Rail engineering train made its way into the retail timetable up at Cleethorpes in Nov 2024?

 

[Chiltern 165]

Can you indicate where "the rail industry" has called people stupid? Genuinely interested to know your source for this.

Many people in this thread display those tendencies...

Reading customer support queries from the Great British public will do this to you. The customer is not always right. It's not a majority, it's a small minority - but they waste colossal amounts of time and I have no idea how some of them get out of bed in the morning.

Cough cough ^^

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2026 ==

As with lots of things, if a few people here and there get something wrong or misunderstand you could be forgiven for assuming they’re unfamiliar with the process (some might say they’re a bit stupid but I wouldn’t want to assume that).

When SO many people get it wrong then there has to be some blame attributed to the retailers or the wider rail industry. This thread shows quite clearly that the rail industry is not interested in making things easy for passengers but is very quick to call them stupid and wipe their hands of any responsibility.

I agree.

You also get retailers doing schenanigans like making any-time day tickets appear like they are fixed to a certain train.

 

[Adam Williams]

Cough cough ^^

It's true of the British public generally. There are plenty of surveys that will indicate a very small percentage of the populace stubbornly thinks the earth is flat, or that birds aren't real, vaccines cause autism or $somethingEquallyDaftThatThereIsNoEvidenceFor.

If you've ever worked in a customer-facing role you will quickly realise that not all complaints have merit. Some absolutely do, and there are plenty of people on this forum that can attest the lengths I've been to in the past in order to try and get genuine problems resolved for customers - including advocating on their behalf with train operators. I got a penalty fare cancelled just a week or so back when it was very, very clear the passenger was not remotely at fault.

Some people will just simply not take responsibility for their actions. You can interrupt the purchase flow with a dialog box that tells them that E-Tickets aren't available/paper tickets need collecting and there will be a contingent of customers who dismiss the dialog without reading any of it and travel without collecting tickets, then get in trouble and blame the retailer. You can clearly point out to people who've been travelling by train for years that Advances are non-refundable and some of them will complain and then lodge a chargeback when they don't get the refund they want. You can interrupt the purchase flow with a warning that an itinerary includes a rail replacement bus, and ask if they want to continue - and yet some of them will tap past the warning, buy the tickets anyway and then throw their toys out the pram on the day of travel when they finally bother to read what they've purchased. Sometimes there are steps you can take to make it even clearer or more difficult to miss, but other times if the customer isn't going to read anything you write - what reasonably can you do? Should you phone every prospective customer to check that they can verbally explain what they are buying?

In the real world, some people do not act reasonably. That's life. If you ask a doctor, a teacher, a paramedic, a revenue inspector or someone else in a public-facing role you'll get the same stories.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2026 ==

You also get retailers doing schenanigans like making any-time day tickets appear like they are fixed to a certain train.

This is a great example because the industry mandated that tickets of this type were displayed in a certain way and the TOC (not an independent retailer - you'd think surely an operator themselves would get it right, wouldn't you?) paid no attention and used the wrong layout instead. The problem was highlighted on that very thread by someone that works for an independent retailer.

Trainline, for all the flack they've gotten in this thread, display such tickets correctly.

 

[saismee]

Some people will just simply not take responsibility for their actions...

Staff included, unfortunately. I have seen a few occasions of some very silly staff do something bad and then complain that management want to speak to them. I'm sure we have all seen it.

In the real world, some people do not act reasonably. That's life. If you ask a doctor, a teacher, a paramedic, a revenue inspector or someone else in a public-facing role you'll get the same stories.

A lot of people think the situation is worse than it is. I know some of my colleagues think that a large portion of people are problematic, but we don't really interact with the majority of people at the gateline as they just purchase, scan, and off they go.

 

[Haywain]

A lot of people think the situation is worse than it is. I know some of my colleagues think that a large portion of people are problematic, but we don't really interact with the majority of people at the gateline as they just purchase, scan, and off they go.

We can only judge by our own experience but it's not the straightforward and sensible that sticks in the memory.

 

[Chiltern 165]

This is a great example because the industry mandated that tickets of this type were displayed in a certain way and the TOC (not an independent retailer - you'd think surely an operator themselves would get it right, wouldn't you?) paid no attention and used the wrong layout instead. The problem was highlighted on that very thread by someone that works for an independent retailer.

Does Southeastern actually do it, or is it a contractor. . .

Something many in this thread overlook is, confusing design from ticket sellers could quite literally ruin someone's life - if they are dealing with a bad RPO and bad revenue protection department.

 

[Haywain]

Does Southeastern actually do it, or is it a contractor. . .

Southeastern.

confusing design from ticket sellers could quite literally ruin someone's life

That's really over the top.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would stating "Day Return" and "Period Return" not be sufficient?

 

[Chiltern 165]

That's really over the top.

It is true though.

Would stating "Day Return" and "Period Return" not be sufficient?

I don't really get the point of an evening out return. Isn't it just a day return but with a different name after a certain time?

 

[Watershed]

Does Southeastern actually do it, or is it a contractor. . .

Southeastern.

It is contracted out. None of the TOCs do their websites or apps in-house.

 

[Haywain]

It is contracted out. None of the TOCs do their websites or apps in-house.

I was referring to fare setting and RCS data etc.

 

[Watershed]

I was referring to fare setting and RCS data etc.

The fares are set up correctly and other retailers display(ed) them using the correct format. It is the TIS provider in this case that got it wrong.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It is true though.

Evidence please.

 

[Chiltern 165]

Evidence please.

Fare-dodging hedge fund manager banned from City

A London hedge fund manager who regularly travelled to work without buying a train ticket is banned from working in the financial services industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

Getting a conviction can very much ruin your life.

 

[Adam Williams]

Oh come on, the individual in that article intended to evade the proper fare. The dishonesty is what the industry regulator will have taken exception to.

It's not at all comparable to a case where someone was "misled" (and I put this in quotes, because I think it's incredibly subjective) into accidentally purchasing the incorrect ticket.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Fare-dodging hedge fund manager banned from City

A London hedge fund manager who regularly travelled to work without buying a train ticket is banned from working in the financial services industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

Getting a conviction can very much ruin your life.

Now have a look at the facts of that case and show that in that case

confusing design from ticket sellers could quite literally ruin someone's life - if they are dealing with a bad RPO and bad revenue protection department.

Rather than that (per the BBC report)

Mr Burrows avoided paying the full fare by boarding the London-bound train at Stonegate - a rural station with no barriers - without purchasing a ticket.

On arriving in London, he went through the barriers at Cannon Street Station using an Oyster travel card, incurring a maximum fare of £7.20.

 

[AlterEgo]

Fare-dodging hedge fund manager banned from City

A London hedge fund manager who regularly travelled to work without buying a train ticket is banned from working in the financial services industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

Getting a conviction can very much ruin your life.

He got convicted of fraud and was guilty. He defrauded the railway of over £40K in fares over several years. So yes, that sort of conviction will have consequences. But this is very far from the sort of scenario you envision.

 

[walkingsophie]

Oh come on, the individual in that article intended to evade the proper fare. The dishonesty is what the industry regulator will have taken exception to.

It's not at all comparable to a case where someone was "misled" (and I put this in quotes, because I think it's incredibly subjective) into accidentally purchasing the incorrect ticket.

I know cases where LNER has threatened to sue some passengers with fraud after they have purchased a ticket with a weird via point and followed the itinerary.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

He got convicted of fraud and was guilty.

Contemporary reports suggest that he agreed an out of court settlement.

Hedge fund manager 'in £42,550 train fare dodge'

A senior city executive is believed to have avoided £42,550 in train fares after exploiting a loophole and only paying a third of the cost.

www.bbc.co.uk

What then happened is that the FCA found out. Perhaps they came looking, or someone at South Eastern leaked his details.

He paid back the £42,550 in dodged fares, plus £450 in legal costs, within three days as part of an out-of-court settlement.

 

[Adam Williams]

I know cases where LNER has threatened to sue some passengers with fraud after they have purchased a ticket with a weird via point and followed the itinerary.

I'm not defending LNER's actions here - the right to follow an itinerary is absolute - but if this is the case I think it is, I don't think what they were doing was remotely accidental, was it?

 

[walkingsophie]

but if this is the case I think it is, I don't think what they were doing was remotely accidental, was it?

No it was not. But the original itinerary was discovered by accident. I think if the person who discovered that itinerary accidentally was a clueless member of the public, a similar thing could have happened to them.

 

[AF91]

I'll refer back to @Adam Williams's post which I wholeheartedly agree with:



Every time I've seen this, it has been the TOC doing poor things to services in the timetable, or some other mistake or misunderstanding of industry systems.

I bet some people took joy in blaming Trainline when a Network Rail engineering train made its way into the retail timetable up at Cleethorpes in Nov 2024?

You're entitled to your opinion on that but my experience was that their were constantly issues with trainline where services that had been removed at informed traveller bid timescales hadn't been removed from trainline's systems.

 

[Adam Williams]

You're entitled to your opinion on that but my experience was that their were constantly issues with trainline where services that had been removed at informed traveller bid timescales hadn't been removed from trainline's systems.

Every single time I've asked frontline staff for a concrete example of this having happened to be able to actually investigate it, I've just gotten crickets in response. My conclusion (sorry) is that it's just uninformed bull****.

The same goes for claims of "Trainline/other independent retailer double-booked seats in the reservation system".

I'll make the offer here: if anyone on the forum wants the root cause checked in the reservation system/industry timetable CIF, post a thread in Fares Advice & Policy and tag me - I'll happily spend the time looking and admit I was wrong if a problem of this nature actually turns out to be a Trainline/mainstream retailer problem. I'll also make a £50 donation to Railway Children if the cause wasn't something outside the control of the retailer. I'll need to know the service (ideally its UID, but origin and departure time will do) and date.

 

[alistairlees]

Every single time I've asked frontline staff for a concrete example of this having happened to be able to actually investigate it, I've just gotten crickets in response. My conclusion (sorry) is that it's just uninformed bull****.

The same goes for claims of "Trainline/other independent retailer double-booked seats in the reservation system".

I'll make the offer here: if anyone on the forum wants the root cause checked in the reservation system/industry timetable CIF, post a thread in Fares Advice & Policy and tag me - I'll happily spend the time looking and admit I was wrong if a problem of this nature actually turns out to be a Trainline/mainstream retailer problem. I'll also make a £50 donation to Railway Children if the cause wasn't something outside the control of the retailer. I'll need to know the service (ideally its UID, but origin and departure time will do) and date.

Your money is safe I think

 

[35B]

Does Southeastern actually do it, or is it a contractor. . .

It shouldn’t matter. Southeastern are the vendor; it’s on them to manage their suppliers.

 

[Chiltern 165]

Now have a look at the facts of that case and show that in that case

Rather than that (per the BBC report)

What I am saying is a conviction or even out of court settlement can ruin someones job / life, especially with an aggressive Revenue team.

 

[davp]

What I am saying is a conviction or even out of court settlement can ruin someones job / life, especially with an aggressive Revenue team.

We see the overwhelming majority of people who cooperate with companies avoid a conviction. TfL are maybe the exception and they prosecute thousands of people each year. Those people are generally not at risk of losing their job or having their lives ruined.

If I were to pick up a railway ticketing conviction for a genuine purchasing mistake I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about action from my regulator or employer because I would have a plausible and genuine explanation for that. Similarly if I had to explain the incident as part of a new post I wouldn't be concerned and it wouldn't be relevant to my probity, so long as I declared it.