Mk1 Carriages Before Blue/Grey Era

[Gloster]

Ah, based on personal sighting and riding. And not particularly on summer Saturdays, when indeed the various through trains were LMR stock. The green stock even turned up on Bath Green Park to Bristol TM locals.

I'm always a bit doubtful of old photographs being an accurate representation, as in the days of expensive photography these often concentrated on the unusual and notable, rather than the everyday mundane. Look at how many S&D photos show Bulleid Pacifics or the 2-8-0s, yet outside summer Saturdays there might be days without these on passenger services.

In 1958 the SR had nine 3-set M allocated to the S&D; I think these were Maunsell coaches formed BSK+CK+BSK (but I can’t find my book to check). By 1963 there were ten 3-set SD, which were a similar formation of Bulleids. I suspect that some of the workings that did not go south of Templecombe, which was the first important location south of the regional boundary at Cole, would be supplied by the LMR and later WR, the latter probably using coaches transferred with the former Midland lines, and these would be maroon. (We don’t want Chocolate & Cream on the S&D!)

We need to remember that the many of the photos we see were taken at weekends when workings were often different from the normal daily grind, a situation particularly true of lines like the S&D. Most enthusiast photographers were of the professional middle-class and similar level of society who had to work 9 to 5 Monday to Friday and often on Saturday mornings. They had relatively few opportunities to take photos at other times and, even if they processed the films themselves, they really couldn’t afford to fire off willy-nilly.

 

[thesignalman]

Ah, based on personal sighting and riding. And not particularly on summer Saturdays, when indeed the various through trains were LMR stock. The green stock even turned up on Bath Green Park to Bristol TM locals.

I'm always a bit doubtful of old photographs being an accurate representation, as in the days of expensive photography these often concentrated on the unusual and notable, rather than the everyday mundane. Look at how many S&D photos show Bulleid Pacifics or the 2-8-0s, yet outside summer Saturdays there might be days without these on passenger services.

Thanks.

But who would want to wait to photograph the three trains a day that ran off-season?

John

 

[norbitonflyer]

I know the thread title refers to before blue/grey, but I wondered if any other BR Standard / Mk.1 passenger coaches - other than the 57' Suburban stock mentioned above which lasted to the late 1970s - were ever painted in overall Rail Blue (as opposed to blue/grey)?

Most SR units deleivered in the early blue era (eg the 4REPs and TCs) were in all over blue, but by about 1972 anything with a gangway (even a 4VEP) was in blue/grey, as were the non-gangwayed MLVs. (The 4CORs had all gone by then though)

Non-corridor stock (HAPs, EPBs) gradually went blue/grey in the 80s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2026 ==

it seemed to be very hard to get paint to grip on teak - often shown by the BR colour flaking off leaving the teak showing.

A regular sight on the Harwich-Manchester boatbtrain in the 1970s was a wooden-bodied ex-LNER buffet car, painted in blue and grey, like this one (although the W prefix to this ones number indicates it had been reallocated to the Western Region).

 

[MarlowDonkey]

A regular sight on the Harwich-Manchester boatbtrain in the 1970s was a wooden-bodied ex-LNER buffet car, painted in blue and grey.

That coach or similar also showed up on the Western Region later in the 1970s.

Hornby even made a model of it or similar

Hornby R4468 Gresley (ex-LNER) Teak Buffet Car in BR blue & grey - E9131E

Hornby R4468 Gresley (ex-LNER) Teak Buffet Car in BR blue & grey - E9131E

www.hattons.co.uk

 

[Rescars]

A regular sight on the Harwich-Manchester boatbtrain in the 1970s was a wooden-bodied ex-LNER buffet car, painted in blue and grey.

Does anyone know/remember if the Gresley buffet included in the train catering Centenary Express in 1979 (a touring collection of historic catering vehicles from the NRM) was in restored teak or carrying blue and grey? It was certainly in full working order because its gas fired still set was used to brew tea for the volunteer guides. There was at least one vehicle in the consist in blue and grey, but in the only picture I have been able find it looks an RK.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The Gresley buffet was in teak.

Going back to the Green MK 1 SR coaches transferred away, quite a few Green CK’s found their way north. All the Bulleid SO’s were repainted in Maroon by Eastleigh before they were sent north.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

In 1958 the SR had nine 3-set M allocated to the S&D; I think these were Maunsell coaches formed BSK+CK+BSK (but I can’t find my book to check). By 1963 there were ten 3-set SD, which were a similar formation of Bulleids.

Just checking my CWN for 7th September 1964 (commencing) and all the 3 Set's noted at Bournemouth West, be those as portions of Waterloo trains, or local's to Templecombe, Evercreech, Bath and Bristol, are all shown as 3 Set L.

Probably a case of standardising the references used I would guess, more than sticking strictly to origin(s) of vehicles concerned?

 

[zwk500]

A regular sight on the Harwich-Manchester boatbtrain in the 1970s was a wooden-bodied ex-LNER buffet car, painted in blue and grey.

Although if my eyes are not deceiving me, that photo is of it in Bristol Temple Meads (the now platform 4, may not have been it's number at the time of the photo!). So it could get around, unless I've completely misidentified the station.

 

[Magdalia]

Although if my eyes are not deceiving me, that photo is of it in Bristol Temple Meads (the now platform 4, may not have been it's number at the time of the photo!). So it could get around, unless I've completely misidentified the station.

There are I think 9 known Gresley buffets that were painted blue and grey. One, W9135E, ended up on the Western Region for its last days in service, and W9135E is the car in the National Collection.

 

[hexagon789]

Although if my eyes are not deceiving me, that photo is of it in Bristol Temple Meads (the now platform 4, may not have been it's number at the time of the photo!). So it could get around, unless I've completely misidentified the station.

There are I think 9 known Gresley buffets that were painted blue and grey. One, W9135E, ended up on the Western Region for its last days in service, and W9135E is the car in the National Collection.

May not mean anything, but the Mk1 to the left of the Gresley buffet has an 'E' or Eastern Region prefix - could suggest an interregional North East/South West working, if the station is indeed Temple Meads?

Edit: a reverse image search found the original with caption - 'The following year, on 25th September 1976, W9135E was deployed in a football excursion from Weston-super-Mare to Liverpool. The location was Bristol Temple Meads. Photo: Roy Hounsell.'

So the aforementioned Western-allocated vehicle.

 

[Bodiam]

What did they use on rural lines before Kent electrification and the DEMUs? Unlike the other regions they didn't need any for London suburban work.

Well the Sheerness branch in the 1950s started with ex-SE&CR Trio-C sets (many with bird age brakes) then gradually got 3-coach Maunsell sets and finally 3-coach Mark 1 sets. There seems to have been quite a bit of overlap. Single 3-coach sets were usual outside the rush-hour; two sets with a "swinger" coach (e.g. an ex-SE&CR 10-compartment third) between them at busy times. Electric 2-Hap units were probably less comfortable than any of those had been.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Did the blue and grey Gresley buffets sometimes be in Sheffield Division, BR Merrymakers in the 1970s?

 

[Acathater]

May not mean anything, but the Mk1 to the left of the Gresley buffet has an 'E' or Eastern Region prefix - could suggest an interregional North East/South West working, if the station is indeed Temple Meads?

Edit: a reverse image search found the original with caption - 'The following year, on 25th September 1976, W9135E was deployed in a football excursion from Weston-super-Mare to Liverpool. The location was Bristol Temple Meads. Photo: Roy Hounsell.'

So the aforementioned Western-allocated vehicle.

FWIW at least one similarly numbered (W****E) all-blue wooden bodied LNER pigeon car ended up on the Western. It made a few appearances at least on Waterloo-Exeter in use as a parcels van in a nine-coach rake

 

[norbitonflyer]

Although if my eyes are not deceiving me, that photo is of it in Bristol Temple Meads (the now platform 4, may not have been it's number at the time of the photo!). So it could get around, unless I've completely misidentified the station.

Here's one still with an Eastern region prefix. Anyone recognise the station

 

[hexagon789]

Here's one still with an Eastern region prefix. Anyone recognise the station

The caption says - 'Norwich'

 

[Magdalia]

The caption says - 'Norwich'

In the mid 1970s one of the Norwich-Birmingham round trip DMU workings was usually loco hauled in summer, and often had a Gresley or Thompson buffet in the formation.

 

[hexagon789]

In the mid 1970s one of the Norwich-Birmingham round trip DMU workings was usually loco hauled in summer, and often had a Gresley or Thompson buffet in the formation.

Wasn't it also extended to/from Great Yarmouth? Or was that a different working?

 

[Magdalia]

Wasn't it also extended to/from Great Yarmouth? Or was that a different working?

A different era, the daily loco hauled Yarmouth-Birmingham and return finished in 1970.

When the full Norwich-Birmingham service went loco hauled in 1977 some trains were extended through to/from Yarmouth but only on summer Saturdays.

For a while in the 1970s the only through trains between Birmingham and Yarmouth were the summer Saturday Walsall workings.

 

[hexagon789]

A different era, the daily loco hauled Yarmouth-Birmingham and return finished in 1970.

When the full Norwich-Birmingham service went loco hauled in 1977 some trains were extended through to/from Yarmouth but only on summer Saturdays.

For a while in the 1970s the only through trains between Birmingham and Yarmouth were the summer Saturday Walsall workings.

Yes, I meant on summer Sats.

I'm more familiar with the latter day working in 1990-ish when it seemsd to be Mk2s and often a freight 47 but thank you for giving the gist of the earlier situation.

It's always interesting to learn how these services developed over time, until eventually swept away.