Greater Anglia fraud email investigation

[AlterEgo]

Is this true.
Under the National Rail Conditions of Travel, Greater Anglia's prosecution and revenue protection team can only recover lost revenue for their own network. They cannot calculate penalties or recover unpaid fares on behalf of Thameslink or TfL unless those operators join a joint prosecution (which rarely happens for minor ticketing audits).

No, it sounds like you asked AI which is the equivalent of sending a toddler to do Google searches for you and tell you what they found.

That is not the situation at all. Train comapnies can and do recover losses on behalf of others. That's entirely normal given very many fares are actually split between operators.

 

[gembercannelle]

But I wouldn’t know if they wre going to create a case tk send me to court. I don’t even know what evidence they have or how far back they wre going to look into my Trainline account. If it’s only those journeys I’m happy to pay the fine

They cannot serve you court papers unless you give them the details they requested. Taking into account Greater Anglia uses ITAL I strongly advise against engaging with them because based on what we have seen here they can easily request a sum 10 times greater than the total cost of tickets you should have bought at first place and remain adamant that this is the sum you ought to pay to avoid criminal record. Then you have no choice but to engage a solicitor. The solicitor is likely to cost you more than the fares outstanding.

 

[logiadv]

They cannot serve you court papers unless you give them the details they requested. Taking into account Greater Anglia uses ITAL I strongly advise against engaging with them because based on what we have seen here they can easily request a sum 10 times greater than the total cost of tickets you should have bought at first place and remain adamant that this is the sum you ought to pay to avoid criminal record. Then you have no choice but to engage a solicitor. The solicitor is likely to cost you more than the fares outstanding.

Why would it be 10x more

 

[Fawkes Cat]

based on what we have seen here they can easily request a sum 10 times greater than the total cost of tickets you should have bought at first place

I don't recall seeing a case where the amount demanded was that far out of balance. Could you point me towards it please?

Or are you including any admin costs that the railway might seek to charge?

 

[logiadv]

I don't recall seeing a case where the amount demanded was that far out of balance. Could you point me towards it please?

Or are you including any admin costs that the railway might seek to charge?

I’ve estimated the fine will be around 1.5k assuming I’m charged £25 for every st albanxs johnrey and obviously other journeys but there’s around 60 st. Albanxs journeys

 

[gembercannelle]

I don't recall seeing a case where the amount demanded was that far out of balance. Could you point me towards it please?

Greater Anglia / ITAL £12k demand after Staff Oyster boundary issue

Hello, I am looking for some practical advice on a Greater Anglia / ITAL case. I know this is not a substitute for legal advice, but I have tried to get legal help and the costs are now beyond what I can manage. I commute from Ipswich towards London and have a TfL Staff Oyster. The relevant...

www.railforums.co.uk

Initial request of £12K was reduced to £1.2K.

 

[logiadv]

Greater Anglia / ITAL £12k demand after Staff Oyster boundary issue

Hello, I am looking for some practical advice on a Greater Anglia / ITAL case. I know this is not a substitute for legal advice, but I have tried to get legal help and the costs are now beyond what I can manage. I commute from Ipswich towards London and have a TfL Staff Oyster. The relevant...

www.railforums.co.uk

Initial request of £12K was reduced to £1.2K.

Appreciate you sending that! Just so you know, that £12k case was a daily commuter on long-distance main-line trains over several years. ITAL repriced every single journey at the £66.80 peak single rate across hundreds of trips. Mine is just short local trips, so the actual deficit is only a few hundred pounds total.

 

[gembercannelle]

Appreciate you sending that! Just so you know, that £12k case was a daily commuter on long-distance main-line trains over several years. ITAL repriced every single journey at the £66.80 peak single rate across hundreds of trips. Mine is just short local trips, so the actual deficit is only a few hundred pounds total.

It is up to you to figure out how ITAL might reprice every single journey you have made during the past 6 years.

 

[logiadv]

It is up to you to figure out how ITAL might reprice every single journey you have made during the past 6 years.

I’ve only used Trainline for 1.5 years

 

[323235]

Why would it be 10x more

If you confess they hold all the cards and can demand whatever they feel is reasonable that’s why.

So unless you want to hand over a wad of cash determined by the train company , don’t respond and buy the correct tickets.

 

[tatitiliti]

If you confess they hold all the cards and can demand whatever they feel is reasonable that’s why.

So unless you want to hand over a wad of cash determined by the train company , don’t respond and buy the correct tickets.

Exactly this, as we’ve all said repeatedly…… Ultimately though it’s up to OP what they do of course.

 

[Busman]

This may sound like a stupid question but something I've often wondered after watching countless docs about fraudulent travel but can they not use CCTV as evidence/proof said person was travelling without a valid ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

This may sound like a stupid question but something I've often wondered after watching countless docs about fraudulent travel but can they not use CCTV as evidence/proof said person was travelling without a valid ticket?

Retrospectively that would be a laborious task and CCTV is wiped after a number of weeks. They use it on TfL to identify passengers scamming thousands of pounds, proactively, so they can perform a stop.

 

[323235]

This may sound like a stupid question but something I've often wondered after watching countless docs about fraudulent travel but can they not use CCTV as evidence/proof said person was travelling without a valid ticket?

For cases that are purely caught in the act or lead to being caught in the act then the answer I would imagine is 100% yes.

If most of the historic data trawl is outside the typically 30? day CCTV window before it’s wiped then they’d have to pull the CCTV for journeys within the 30 day period straight away to get the concrete CCTV evidence.

Then presumably they’ve got to somehow get a picture of the account holder to confirm it’s them.

This is surely more of a dead end if the person stops the offending and doesn’t admit to the offence.

Whereas if they catch them in the act (perhaps after a data trawl) they’re legally required to confirm their identity and then you confirm the details match the identity on the account (or they could then pull a booking account then in non-data trawl) and if there’s cctv that’s extra evidence for an almost certain prosecution.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Presumably there’s also a need to synchronise the cctv to the barriers, especially at busy stations, if they’re wanting to use it as evidence in a court?

 

[Haywain]

Then presumably they’ve got to somehow get a picture of the account holder to confirm it’s them.

That's of no consequence - the offence is using the tickets, not buying them.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I've often wondered after watching countless docs about fraudulent travel but can they not use CCTV as evidence/proof said person was travelling without a valid ticket?

They can trawl through ticket purchase records to find suspect patterns, they can watch cctv footage of people going through barriers. It's hard work to connect them which is probably why the method only seems to be used for targetted stops.

 

[Sonic1234]

This may sound like a stupid question but something I've often wondered after watching countless docs about fraudulent travel but can they not use CCTV as evidence/proof said person was travelling without a valid ticket?

A lot of people don't have a particularly unique appearance. Prove that average looking guy in a sea of average looking guys is me.

Mask wearing is still socially acceptable and seems to be favoured among those who push barriers - don't think they do it for hygiene reasons.