I could use your advice, technically valid ticket but ran off

[SuspectUsual]

brfares.com does now sell tickets. This is fulfilled by Raileasy but it is done via brfares.com. It's very useful as it sells any walk up fare without an itinerary or reservation, a rare way to do this online now "Mixing Deck" sites are dying out.

Apologies. That had passed me by

 

[AlterEgo]

I kept my coach ticket. Thank you.

What coach are you taking from London to Farnborough?

It wouldnt be £14.65. I need to go to kings cross. A farn to kings cross single peak ticket is £25.59 through my retailer.

Which retailer? Train tickets are not priced ending in any number other than a 5 or a 0.

There's no reason for you to buy returns when a single is cheaper if you really do return by coach.

 

[gembercannelle]

Yeah I genuinely didnt use the railway to get home coming back, not so stupid. I'm sure they'll update the pricing now!

I think this is the case when time is money. If I wanted to save a bit, I would probably be buying return (or single) to Clapham Junction, and then swapping to Oyster to go to Kings Cross.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which retailer? Train tickets are not priced ending in any number other than a 5 or a 0.

Trainline fees sometimes result in a price being shown with an ending other than 5 or 0. Trainsplit share of saving fees do too.

 

[waterpoo]

What coach are you taking from London to Farnborough?


Which retailer? Train tickets are not priced ending in any number other than a 5 or a 0.

There's no reason for you to buy returns when a single is cheaper if you really do return by coach.

Im not sure why I am being questioned on things irrelevant to the situation? If you believe I am a liar, Im ok with that, I have the 2 hours sat on a coach and then other means to get home, to say otherwise!

I just did a quick search, many train companies add fees. Added a screenshot for you.

 

[hexagon789]

brfares isn’t a selling website, it’s a database of available fares. Can you show us what ticket you’ve been buying?

Just to add: BR fares do sell tickets now, they have for a short while.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There's no reason for you to buy returns when a single is cheaper if you really do return by coach.

Reckon that's the nub of the issue. Buying a return ticket which is more expensive than a single AND then buying a coach ticket to get back to the Farnborough area (was the latter only ever bought on the day when the tickets were withdrawn/confiscated?) is stretching credulity somewhat. Technically, at the time that the OP was stopped, it's possible that no offence was committed, other than, of course, giving a moody address and then running off. So, what might the OP realistically expect to happen next?

 

[AlterEgo]

Im not sure why I am being questioned on things irrelevant to the situation? If you believe I am a liar, Im ok with that, I have the 2 hours sat on a coach and then other means to get home, to say otherwise!

Well it doesn't make any sense. The train company will have exactly these questions becuase none of what you say passes the smell test. It's more expensive for you to perform this wheeze than it is just to buy a single ticket, as we have ascertained.

If you have been doing this for some time and they find out about this by auditing your purchasing accounts and the print data, it is likely they will make a civil claim against you for the losses they have incurred by your improper use of the return portion, which the evidence would suggest it is more likely than not you used to return home. This only needs to be proven on the balance of probabilities.

Which coach did you take from London to Farnborough? It will be a fundamental part of your defence, and there isn't a direct coach service on this route, so if you advance this defence then you need to evidence it and explain what you did. "I didn't use the ticket, I got a lift/bus" is as old as the hills!

I just did a quick search, many train companies add fees. Added a screenshot for you.

Which retailer is adding on about £9 of fees to a £16.65 ticket?

You can just tell us if it's all true and it will help us to form any defence to any civil claim against you. Fortunately they don't seem to have detected anything they can prove to a criminal standard other than you refusing to give your name and address but it's likely SWR won't let this one go. None of us have a lot of time for the train companies and their aggressive pursuit of people but we do also need to be told the truth in order to give the best possible advice, including strategies about what to say and what not to say (without ever being evasive or telling untruths to the company).

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you have been doing this for some time and they find out about this by auditing your purchasing accounts and the print data, it is likely they will make a civil claim against you for the losses they have incurred by your improper use of the return portion, which the evidence would suggest it is more likely than not you used to return home. This only needs to be proven on the balance of probabilities.

Is it? We don't often see civil claims being reported on here, the railway hardly ever uses them even though they clearly could. More likely would be a request for a settlement of about £120 plus the fares it believes were evaded at Anytime (Day) Single rate* per journey even if the prosecution might likely be unsuccessful.

* It would be interesting to see if they'd assess a single for the outward journeys where the ticket was valid or just for the return journeys - it wasn't misused until the return in this sort of case. I suspect they would, and with these it's usually a case of cough up what is requested or see you in Court.

 

[waterpoo]

Well it doesn't make any sense. The train company will have exactly these questions becuase none of what you say passes the smell test. It's more expensive for you to perform this wheeze than it is just to buy a single ticket, as we have ascertained.

If you have been doing this for some time and they find out about this by auditing your purchasing accounts and the print data, it is likely they will make a civil claim against you for the losses they have incurred by your improper use of the return portion, which the evidence would suggest it is more likely than not you used to return home. This only needs to be proven on the balance of probabilities.

Which coach did you take from London to Farnborough? It will be a fundamental part of your defence, and there isn't a direct coach service on this route, so if you advance this defence then you need to evidence it and explain what you did. "I didn't use the ticket, I got a lift/bus" is as old as the hills!


Which retailer is adding on about £9 of fees to a £16.65 ticket?

You can just tell us if it's all true and it will help us to form any defence to any civil claim against you. Fortunately they don't seem to have detected anything they can prove to a criminal standard other than you refusing to give your name and address but it's likely SWR won't let this one go. None of us have a lot of time for the train companies and their aggressive pursuit of people but we do also need to be told the truth in order to give the best possible advice, including strategies about what to say and what not to say (without ever being evasive or telling untruths to the company).

I'm just sure my case is niche enough that this very thread could be used as evidence? Maybe I am paranoid, but it doesn't feel worth the risk.

I will tell you factually, try to believe me on these facts even if it doesn't add up to you:

- I have cast iron proof or my return journey on the coach. its not disputable.
-The fare company I have been buying tickets off (guess i have been getting unknowingly robbed by them) do NOT sell single tickets for cheaper than an 'other way round' return. I appreciate there did exist in the world a way to get a cheaper single through other sites, i did not know.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it? We don't often see civil claims being reported on here, the railway hardly ever uses them even though they clearly could. More likely would be a request for a settlement of about £120 plus the fares it believes were evaded at Anytime (Day) Single rate* per journey even if the prosecution might likely be unsuccessful.

* It would be interesting to see if they'd assess a single for the outward journeys where the ticket was valid or just for the return journeys - it wasn't misused until the return in this sort of case. I suspect they would, and with these it's usually a case of cough up what is requested or see you in Court.

A civil claim is the only method SWR have here as they have no evidence of misuse to the criminal standard. It's true they might still threaten magistrates, but the OP can be assured that is unlikely.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The fare company I have been buying tickets off (guess i have been getting unknowingly robbed by them) do NOT sell single tickets for cheaper than an 'other way round' return. I appreciate there did exist in the world a way to get a cheaper single through other sites, i did not know

Who were you using?

 

[Bletchleyite]

-The fare company I have been buying tickets off (guess i have been getting unknowingly robbed by them) do NOT sell single tickets for cheaper than an 'other way round' return. I appreciate there did exist in the world a way to get a cheaper single through other sites, i did not know.

This won't be true. The £25 (full adult fare, with Railcard about £18) Anytime Day Single will be sold by all retailers, there's nothing that would cause it not to be.

BRFares definitely sell it as they will sell any walk up fare regardless of what it is or isn't valid to do. It's then down to you to use it in a valid manner. There are I expect tickets it will sell with no validity whatsoever, such as a single from Rufford to Croston dated for a Sunday*. It's an expert style site and users are expected to know what they are doing.

* It absolutely will sell that, I just got as far as the payment screen with it in the basket, but declined to waste £3.80 actually buying it

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm just sure my case is niche enough that this very thread could be used as evidence? Maybe I am paranoid, but it doesn't feel worth the risk.

I will tell you factually, try to believe me on these facts even if it doesn't add up to you:

- I have cast iron proof or my return journey on the coach. its not disputable.
-The fare company I have been buying tickets off (guess i have been getting unknowingly robbed by them) do NOT sell single tickets for cheaper than an 'other way round' return. I appreciate there did exist in the world a way to get a cheaper single through other sites, i did not know.

Sorry I don't believe either of these facts, they do not seem to be true and it is not reasonable to ask someone else to believe them, not least people who specifically hang out in the rail fares section to give fares and prosecutions advice. There is no coach London to Farnborough (why not just tell us which one it is because you'll need to tell the train company anyway and show them the ticket) and no retailer is marking up a £16 ticket over £9 in fees. This is a fares expert forum, these are things we know and it is why you have come here.

It seems substantially apparent you have been using the inbound portion on the return, and a reasonable person would reach the same conclusion in the absence of any evidence. That's why you have been buying return tickets. It isn't rocket science.

 

[waterpoo]

OK I stand corrected, I thought it was but no, single is cheaper.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

Sorry I don't believe either of these facts, they do not seem to be true and it is not reasonable to ask someone else to believe them, not least people who specifically hang out in the rail fares section to give fares and prosecutions advice. There is no coach London to Farnborough (why not just tell us which one it is because you'll need to tell the train company anyway and show them the ticket) and no retailer is marking up a £16 ticket over £9 in fees. This is a fares expert forum, these are things we know and it is why you have come here.

It seems substantially apparent you have been using the inbound portion on the return, and a reasonable person would reach the same conclusion in the absence of any evidence. That's why you have been buying return tickets. It isn't rocket science.

Yeah I rechecked and sorry second point was not correct. The coach one is though. I dont need you to believe me, I just wanted advice based on what's going to come. It would have to be civil, and even civil requires some level of evidence. I wasn't going to go down the admitting its a loophole so it's cheaper defence route anyway.

I was stopped in person on a valid ticket, with proof of not using a rail return journey. Guess i will start looking in the burden of proof in civil cases.

 

[AlterEgo]

OK I stand corrected, I thought it was but no, single is cheaper.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==


Yeah I rechecked and sorry second point was not correct. The coach one is though. I dont need you to believe me, I just wanted advice based on what's going to come. It would have to be civil, and even civil requires some level of evidence. I wasn't going to go down the admitting its a loophole so it's cheaper defence route anyway.

I was stopped in person on a valid ticket, with proof of not using a rail return journey. Guess i will start looking in the burden of proof in civil cases.

It's on the balance of probabilities. That is, what is more likely to be true?

A person who has bought a return ticket and is using it purposely in the reverse order:

- has paid substantially more than a single ticket, claims to dispose of the outbound portion, use the return only on theway in, then spends more money and 2 more hours all the way back to Farnborough on a coach which there is no evidence of existing, instead of 35 minutes on a train

or

- is simply using the inbound as the outbound at a later time that day against the terms and conditions as many people do on SWR.

You will need to evidence what you say to SWR; they have seen it all before and so have we. The vagueness of all the explanations given so far is a big red flag in a way that neurotypical people will clock immediately, and it will hamper any defence you want to advance if SWR try to make you pay them a substantial sum of money

 

[skyhigh]

Guess i will start looking in the burden of proof in civil cases.

On the balance of probability - i.e. which is more likely.

Your story - you buy a return ticket more expensive than a single ticket, only use it in one direction and buy another coach ticket to make a slower journey home.

Their story - you buy a ticket and use it in the wrong direction to avoid the correct fare.

It's not hard to see which any court would go for.

Do you have any evidence of your coach ticket purchases previously, or is the only ticket you can evidence conveniently purchased after you were stopped? Again, that will not help your case.

 

[waterpoo]

It's on the balance of probabilities. That is, what is more likely to be true?

A person who has bought a return ticket and is using it purposely in the reverse order:

- has paid substantially more than a single ticket, claims to dispose of the outbound portion, use the return only on theway in, then spends more money and 2 more hours all the way back to Farnborough on a coach which there is no evidence of existing, instead of 35 minutes on a train

or

- is simply using the inbound as the outbound at a later time that day against the terms and conditions as many people do on SWR.

You will need to evidence what you say to SWR; they have seen it all before and so have we. The vagueness of all the explanations given so far is a big red flag in a way that neurotypical people will clock immediately, and it will hamper any defence you want to advance if SWR try to make you pay them a substantial sum of money

The train guard took both of my tickets, he took my return portion so I could never have used it even if i intended too. Please can you stop assuming my coach home was to farnborough.

There are many more possible or's:

- A person makes the mistake of buying tickets the wrong way round, and upon googling realises they are able to use the inward portion, but knows they cannot come back on that ticket.

I thought they dont usually do civil pursuits, but you think they will here?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

On the balance of probability - i.e. which is more likely.

Your story - you buy a return ticket more expensive than a single ticket, only use it in one direction and buy another coach ticket to make a slower journey home.

Their story - you buy a ticket and use it in the wrong direction to avoid the correct fare.

It's not hard to see which any court would go for.

Do you have any evidence of your coach ticket purchases previously, or is the only ticket you can evidence conveniently purchased after you were stopped? Again, that will not help your case.

I've never travelled on a return ticket using the inward portion first before.

It's not a crime to purchase coach tickets at the station, my phone was stolen the other week so I only have a card right now, so need to use machines, rather than online buying of tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Please can you stop assuming my coach home was to farnborough.

If you want us to help you you will need to stop playing 20 Questions and instead give us the full details of what you actually did, including tickets etc that you have, though redacting any reference numbers or personal details that may identify you. It probably also wouldn't be sensible to say which date this happened on.

If you did commit an offence we can help with what the best outcome for that will be, but it will only be based on truth without omission or obfuscation.

 

[AlterEgo]

The train guard took both of my tickets, he took my return portion so I could never have used it even if i intended too. Please can you stop assuming my coach home was to farnborough.

It's a reasonable assumption to make given that's where you came from. As @Bletchleyite says you need to stop diddling about and tell us some specifics so we can verify what you're saying. The vagueness makes you look dishonest.

There are many more possible or's:

- A person makes the mistake of buying tickets the wrong way round, and upon googling realises they are able to use the inward portion, but knows they cannot come back on that ticket.

But that's not what happened and neither party is advancing this line of reasoning. So it is not relevant. Only the two I suggested are relevant. Your version of events and the railway's suspicion.

I thought they dont usually do civil pursuits, but you think they will here?

They will have to, because that is the only option open to them.

 

[waterpoo]

It's a reasonable assumption to make given that's where you came from. As @Bletchleyite says you need to stop diddling about and tell us some specifics so we can verify what you're saying. The vagueness makes you look dishonest.


But that's not what happened and neither party is advancing this line of reasoning. So it is not relevant. Only the two I suggested are relevant. Your version of events and the railway's suspicion.


They will have to, because that is the only option open to them.

My version of events hasnt been presented to court though? Or is this thread being used as evidence?

Sorry I am way too paranoid to post public details that can identify me or my trip, especially because im quite annoying so ppl might be motivated to dig into me. Everything I have said is the facts of the case, the ticket conditions, and my proof of return home by other means.

I guess I will start saving for a good suit for court, maybe even a haircut.

 

[SuspectUsual]

My version of events hasnt been presented to court though? Or is this thread being used as evidence?

Sorry I am way too paranoid to post public details that can identify me or my trip, especially because im quite annoying so ppl might be motivated to dig into me. Everything I have said is the facts of the case, the ticket conditions, and my proof of return home by other means.

I guess I will start saving for a good suit for court, maybe even a haircut.

People come here to get advice on how to get the best possible outcome when they find themselves in bother

Sometimes they're bang to rights, sometimes they've done nowt wrong, sometimes they're in a bit of a grey area in between

Sometimes its deliberate, sometimes its inadvertent

None of that matters to us - there's no judgement of you as a person

But - and this is important - if you want the best possible advice for free, you need to be honest about the facts and answer the questions you're asked, because people are asking them in order to give the best advice

And if you think some of the questions are intrusive, its because people are trying to put themselves in the shoes of the train company and see it from their point of view, and ask the same questions they'd ask you

Please understand, we want to help you, but we can't if you keep important stuff from us

 

[waterpoo]

People come here to get advice on how to get the best possible outcome when they find themselves in bother

Sometimes they're bang to rights, sometimes they've done nowt wrong, sometimes they're in a bit of a grey area in between

Sometimes its deliberate, sometimes its inadvertent

None of that matters to us - there's no judgement of you as a person

But - and this is important - if you want the best possible advice for free, you need to be honest about the facts and answer the questions you're asked, because people are asking them in order to give the best advice

And if you think some of the questions are intrusive, its because people are trying to put themselves in the shoes of the train company and see it from their point of view, and ask the same questions they'd ask you

Please understand, we want to help you, but we can't if you keep important stuff from us

Ok, that's helpful,

I live between 2 stations, so I got the train from farnborough, but got the coach home to the other station (because as its been pointed out there isnt one to farnborough, I dont know why this is being doubted since I obviously do not have money to pay for a taxi from london home) where I then made my way home. It was just the quickest coach/ way to get home.

If they checked the trainline, they would see Id bought the same return before, but I have in front of me right now the unused outward portions (london to farnborough) of those tickets, showing I did not use them to get home.

To the train company, I would say it was a mistake and i accidentally bought the tickets the wrong way round, and since they cant be refunded anymore, I thought it was legal to use them to travel on the inward journey, then making my way back through other means. It was a silly mistake to make yes, but not a criminal one. and not one to defraud the railway. If they ruled guilty, i guess i would just pay them, it would be under 100£ ive calculated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To the train company, I would say it was a mistake and i accidentally bought the tickets the wrong way round, and since they cant be refunded anymore, I thought it was legal to use them to travel on the inward journey, then making my way back through other means. It was a silly mistake to make yes, but not a criminal one. and not one to defraud the railway. If they ruled guilty, i guess i would just pay them, it would be under 100£ ive calculated.

I think you are really going to struggle to get them to believe that. If you did it once, maybe. But several times?

 

[waterpoo]

I think you are really going to struggle to get them to believe that. If you did it once, maybe. But several times?

yeah I'd really have to research into civil cases. Bare in mind they have no proof of me doing that several times.

Guess it really just depends, civil is highly preferable to criminal so that's something. It would set a precedent too with the return ticket order debate, so thats fun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

yeah I'd really have to research into civil cases. Bare in mind they have no proof of me doing that several times.

Guess it really just depends, civil is highly preferable to criminal so that's something. It would set a precedent too with the return ticket order debate, so thats fun.

I'm not sure I would relish getting into legal cases to be honest. Your aim if they do come back to you is to settle, really. Usually this will be by paying about £120 costs plus the fares due at Anytime (Day) Single rate.

 

[swt_passenger]

The train guard took both of my tickets, he took my return portion so I could never have used it even if i intended too. Please can you stop assuming my coach home was to farnborough.

I think you’re confusing things here by not using the correct ticket names. Don’t you mean that he took your (no longer usable) ‘out’ portion, because you’d presented the ‘return’ portion. You also refer earlier to using the ‘inward’ portion - I guess you meant the return portion.

To make sure everyone’s understanding the sequence, I’d stick to the name that’s printed on the tickets…

 

[Haywain]

Yeah I genuinely didnt use the railway to get home coming back, not so stupid.

On the day you were stopped, I guess you mean. But not on the other occasions.

 

[bramling]

How many times have you done this before?


But you were using the inward portion, so it didn't matter what did (or didn't) happen with the outward portion. You didn't commit a ticketing offence on that particular morning. You may have committed an offence by giving a false address but that would be a separate issue.

What you may well have been doing is to commit an offence on other occasions, on days when you used the outward portion to go home.


What means of transport was that? Why would you buy a return train ticket, and then return by a different means of transport? Neither we nor the RPIs were born yesterday...

On the latter point, I don’t see why that would necessarily be unusual. I’ve had situations where I’ve ended up being given a lift home or even decided to cycle, whilst having a return ticket - especially in the days when return tickets were often virtually the same price as a single. This in itself shouldn’t be ringing alarm bells.

 

[waterpoo]

Yeah sorry inward = return. (was assuming it was just the opposite of outward)

He took both of my tickets, the outward and the return. He just pocketed them and walked off, I personally think he was hoping I would buy a ticket or something dodgy on the train and then Id be caught with those invalid tickets, an easy writing up.

I think you’re confusing things here by not using the correct ticket names. Don’t you mean that he took your (no longer usable) ‘out’ portion, because you’d presented the ‘return’ portion. You also refer earlier to using the ‘inward’ portion - I guess you meant the return portion.

To make sure everyone’s understanding the sequence, I’d stick to the name that’s printed on the tickets…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

On the day you were stopped, I guess you mean. But not on the other occasions.

My understanding is they have to catch you in person to prove that is was me? Wont be long until AI is used to do CCTV facial recognition though I'm sure