I could use your advice, technically valid ticket but ran off

[waterpoo]

Hi all,

Had an ordeal the other day. I was going to work and had my eyes shut headphones in, next thing I knew the ticket inspector was in my face. I handed him my paper ticket, which was the inward portion of a return ticket (peak anytime, railcard which I have). He then asked for the other return portion which I also gave him, he then walked off with my tickets saying I needed to buy valid ones. In my understanding my inward travel ticket was still valid despite being used first, note I never intended to use the outward portion later. He just took my tickets, I was obviously upset about this and wanted them back, they were not cheap and I needed them to travel through london to get to work.

On the platform the SWR ticket people were there, i was treated like a complete criminal and threatened by security. I let them scan my railcard, but then they started saying they would be getting the police, i needed to go to work. I gave a different address and then ran off when I had a chance. Im autistic and it was either that or I start having a meltdown on the platform in front of everyone. not great, i am aware.

I have not been stopped or ever fined before.

What should I expect next, my ticket was valid im pretty sure.

 

[John R]

Please tell us exactly what journey you were taking, exactly what tickets you had (from where to where, and what type) what railcard, and whether your ticket had any time restrictions.

Then experts here will have the required information to help you.

 

[waterpoo]

Hi thanks for your reply,

Farnborough to waterloo, tickets were kings cross station (so zone 1) to Farnborough anytime open return. 18-25 railcard. No time restrictions.

 

[Watershed]

When you say it was an Anytime Open Return, did you mean this fare, costing £33.30?

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Or this fare costing £20:

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[waterpoo]

I meant the day return one, my bad

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

To clarify too, the tickets had been bought that day, that morning of travel

 

[Bletchleyite]

This could be an interesting "test case". NRCoT 11.3 states:

A return Ticket must be used in the correct sequence (you must use the outward
portion of your return Ticket before you use the return portion). The outward portion
of a return Ticket is no longer valid for travel once the return portion has been used.

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/7iflSDtwN50mQZMP6SKWH0/3bded7549df32c2f5eeadefac8bcb5d9/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_July_2026.pdf

We have generally taken this to mean if you use the return first the outward becomes invalid, but what it says in the first sentence could be read more strictly than that i.e. that you actually have to use the outward before the return becomes valid. This is generally unenforceable, but using it in the morning when there is no way you could have used the outward first is an interesting exception.

I wonder if a case such as this has ever made it to Court?

 

[SuspectUsual]

This is generally unenforceable, but using it in the morning when there is no way you could have used the outward first is an interesting exception

Indeed

And handing the RPO the unused outward portion won’t have helped

 

[waterpoo]

It's true but he could see when it was printed anyway. I definitely did not help myself, I think he thought i was pretending to be asleep so it was a case of looking like a wrongen from the start.

Suppose I made the human error of buying tickets the wrong way round, not the first time that has happened to me, the ticket conditions say it's invalid to use the outward without a valid inward. I never intended on doing this any used a completely different means of transport to get home.

Indeed

And handing the RPO the unused outward portion won’t have helped

 

[Watershed]

This could be an interesting "test case". NRCoT 11.3 states:

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/7iflSDtwN50mQZMP6SKWH0/3bded7549df32c2f5eeadefac8bcb5d9/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_July_2026.pdf

We have generally taken this to mean if you use the return first the outward becomes invalid, but what it says in the first sentence could be read more strictly than that i.e. that you actually have to use the outward before the return becomes valid. This is generally unenforceable, but using it in the morning when there is no way you could have used the outward first is an interesting exception.

I wonder if a case such as this has ever made it to Court?

Given that an otherwise valid ticket becoming invalid is a substantial penalty, it would need to be explicitly stated in the contract if the railway wanted it to be the case that the outward portion had be used, in order for the return portion to be valid.

The way that clause in the NRCoT is actually written, such a penalty ("is no longer valid for travel") only applies to the outward portion.

But I think you are correct as to what is going on here. The OP has worked out that buying an Anytime Day Return in the 'wrong' direction is cheaper than buying it in the 'right' direction. They have been caught doing so in the morning, at which point they haven't done anything wrong, but it's pretty obvious that they are using the tickets in the wrong direction.

Whilst no action can be taken in respect of what happened today, the report might be used to investigate the OP's purchasing history. If there's a record of similar tickets being regularly bought, always being collected at Farnborough in the morning, and of the OP's address being in Farnborough, it'll be pretty obvious what is going on.

 

[waterpoo]

This could be an interesting "test case". NRCoT 11.3 states:

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/7iflSDtwN50mQZMP6SKWH0/3bded7549df32c2f5eeadefac8bcb5d9/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_July_2026.pdf

We have generally taken this to mean if you use the return first the outward becomes invalid, but what it says in the first sentence could be read more strictly than that i.e. that you actually have to use the outward before the return becomes valid. This is generally unenforceable, but using it in the morning when there is no way you could have used the outward first is an interesting exception.

I wonder if a case such as this has ever made it to Court?

Yeah it is a complex one for sure.

In my mind, if I'd said yes im using it to travel back to Farnborough later today - that would be invalid use. But I got a different mode of transport back afterwards. I bought it through trainxx and the conditions tell me that an outward is not valid without the valid unused inward portion, it doesn't say anything about the other way round, and I did find a thread on here of people confirming. But they might try and throw the book at me on this one

 

[SuspectUsual]

but what it says in the first sentence could be read more strictly than that i.e. that you actually have to use the outward before the return becomes valid

Possibly, but the practicalities (eg the passenger might have to carry the outbound portion on the return journey as proof; how would anyone know if the outbound portion had been used if both stations were unbarriered and there were no checks en route?) and the following sentence suggest it’s more that using the return invalidates the outbound

 

[Watershed]

Suppose I made the human error of buying tickets the wrong way round, not the first time that has happened to me

How many times have you done this before?

the ticket conditions say it's invalid to use the outward without a valid inward

But you were using the inward portion, so it didn't matter what did (or didn't) happen with the outward portion. You didn't commit a ticketing offence on that particular morning. You may have committed an offence by giving a false address but that would be a separate issue.

What you may well have been doing is to commit an offence on other occasions, on days when you used the outward portion to go home.

I never intended on doing this any used a completely different means of transport to get home.

What means of transport was that? Why would you buy a return train ticket, and then return by a different means of transport? Neither we nor the RPIs were born yesterday...

 

[waterpoo]

Given that an otherwise valid ticket becoming invalid is a substantial penalty, it would need to be explicitly stated in the contract if the railway wanted it to be the case that the outward portion had be used, in order for the return portion to be valid.

The way that clause in the NRCoT is actually written, such a penalty ("is no longer valid for travel") only applies to the outward portion.

But I think you are correct as to what is going on here. The OP has worked out that buying an Anytime Day Return in the 'wrong' direction is cheaper than buying it in the 'right' direction. They have been caught doing so in the morning, at which point they haven't done anything wrong, but it's pretty obvious that they are using the tickets in the wrong direction.

Whilst no action can be taken in respect of what happened today, the report might be used to investigate the OP's purchasing history. If there's a record of similar tickets being regularly bought, always being collected at Farnborough in the morning, and of the OP's address being in Farnborough, it'll be pretty obvious what is going on.

I didn't want to state the obvious, I assume they read these forums haha. One has to question why the exact same journey, with identical time restrictions, are more expensive for people travelling one direction. And then you'd think maybe with that additional profit they'd be able to add a coach or two so people can sit down. Sorry it's an issue I am passionate about, affordability of trains

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

How many times have you done this before?


But you were using the inward portion, so it didn't matter what did (or didn't) happen with the outward portion. You didn't commit a ticketing offence today.

What you may well have been doing is to commit an offence on other occasions, on days when you used the outward portion to go home.


What means of transport was that? Why would you buy a return train ticket, and then return by a different means of transport? Neither we nor the RPIs were born yesterday...

Because I didnt want to go back to the station! I'm not trying to lie to you guys, I just dont want to incriminate myself since its a niche case.

More my question is, what shall i expect since they have a friends trainline, and a railcard scan.

Thanks

 

[SuspectUsual]

I didn't want to state the obvious, I assume they read these forums haha. One has to question why the exact same journey, with identical time restrictions, are more expensive for people travelling one direction. And then you'd think maybe with that additional profit they'd be able to add a coach or two so people can sit down. Sorry it's an issue I am passionate about, affordability of trains

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==


Because I didnt want to go back to the station! I'm not trying to lie to you guys, I just dont want to incriminate myself since its a niche case.

More my question is, what shall i expect since they have a friends trainline, and a railcard scan.

Thanks

Market based pricing. The railway is far from unique in sometimes using it

Personally, I think it’s a bit off, but it’s legal so they do it

 

[waterpoo]

Market based pricing. The railway is far from unique in sometimes using it

Personally, I think it’s a bit off, but it’s legal so they do it

and I'll preface this by saying I'm sorry if it comes across argumentative - in my mind what I have done is legal too, to my understanding of the ticket rules, its valid! maybe not ethical, but legal.

 

[SuspectUsual]

and I'll preface this by saying I'm sorry if it comes across argumentative - in my mind what I have done is legal too, to my understanding of the ticket rules, its valid! maybe not ethical, but legal.

I agree that on my reading of the conditions using the return portion first isn’t an offence in itself, but using the outbound portion later would be

But, quite importantly, I’m not a lawyer

 

[waterpoo]

I agree that on my reading of the conditions using the return portion first isn’t an offence in itself, but using the outbound portion later would be

But, quite importantly, I’m not a lawyer

Thanks anyway, just guys are like the railway secret justice league

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

you*

 

[AlterEgo]

So you go one way on your return ticket on the return portion, Farnborough to London. And you say you don't use the return portion - and get "another form of transport" (very vague!)

Why not just buy a single then for £14.65?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Thanks anyway, just guys are like the railway secret justice league

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

you*

The thing that doesn’t make sense to me though is why you’re doing this in the first place, if…

never intended on doing this any used a completely different means of transport to get home.

….is true

Why not just buy a single?

 

[waterpoo]

So you go one way on your return ticket on the return portion, Farnborough to London. And you say you don't use the return portion - and get "another form of transport" (very vague!)

Why not just buy a single then for £14.65?

It wouldnt be £14.65. I need to go to kings cross. A farn to kings cross single peak ticket is £25.59 through my retailer.

 

[Watershed]

I didn't want to state the obvious, I assume they read these forums haha. One has to question why the exact same journey, with identical time restrictions, are more expensive for people travelling one direction. And then you'd think maybe with that additional profit they'd be able to add a coach or two so people can sit down. Sorry it's an issue I am passionate about, affordability of trains

It's priced higher because the peak direction of travel is towards London in the morning and away from it in the evening. People travelling against that peak direction are travelling on much quieter trains so they are not making an identical journey in practice.

The railways as a whole are far from profitable, they require billions in annual government subsidies. Rush hour services generally come close to breaking even but the lower loadings at off-peak times mean that they still need subsidy overall. SWR, along with most rail operators now, are nationalised so there is no private shareholder taking in the profit. Any profits are used to offset losses (subsidies) elsewhere.

I completely sympathise with your concerns about affordability but you can't dodge the train fare just because it's expensive - any more than you can skip paying for your shopping or haircut because it's expensive!

 

[JBuchananGB]

I think this is the relevant single ticket £16.65 Anytime Day Single Farnborough Stns to Zone U1 with 16-25 Railcard

 

[waterpoo]

The thing that doesn’t make sense to me though is why you’re doing this in the first place, if…



….is true

Why not just buy a single?

see my above reply, it's cheaper and then I can travel on any train at anytime

It's priced higher because the peak direction of travel is towards London in the morning and away from it in the evening. People travelling against that peak direction are travelling on much quieter trains so they are not making an identical journey in practice.

The railways as a whole are far from profitable, they require billions in annual government subsidies. Rush hour services generally come close to breaking even but the lower loadings at off-peak times mean that they still need subsidy overall. SWR, along with most rail operators now, are nationalised so there is no private shareholder taking in the profit. Any profits are used to offset losses (subsidies) elsewhere.

I completely sympathise with your concerns about affordability but you can't dodge the train fare just because it's expensive - any more than you can skip paying for your shopping or haircut because it's expensive!

Exactly, they pay less to go on a nice quiet train, while people are expected to pay nearly double the amount to stand on a crammed commuter train, its laughable.

I can and do skip my haircut, I just do it myself (probably why i look like such a wrongun). You're right about food unfortunately since I cant own land, or even grow food in the woods, I am dependent on the system.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2026 ==

I think this is the relevant single ticket £16.65 Anytime Day Single Farnborough Stns to Zone U1 with 16-25 Railcard

useful website thanks Ive never heard of it before, way cheaper than other places.

 

[SuspectUsual]

useful website thanks Ive never heard of it before, way cheaper than other places.

brfares isn’t a selling website, it’s a database of available fares. Can you show us what ticket you’ve been buying?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally, I think it’s a bit off, but it’s legal so they do it

It's relatively rare, primarily in the South East, and Project Oval's single fare pricing is progressively removing it. It was once the case from Bletchley but hasn't been for a long time now.

It is the reason why that clause was added, though. It historically wasn't there until maybe the mid 2000s and so people did buy wrong direction returns and save money.

 

[waterpoo]

brfares isn’t a selling website, it’s a database of available fares. Can you show us what ticket you’ve been buying?

oh it seemed to let me buy tickets directly through it when I clicked through the link. Unfortunately I dot have my tickets as I never got them back, it is a farn to london terminals zone 1 anytime day ticket though, sorry if not helpful

 

[Bletchleyite]

brfares isn’t a selling website, it’s a database of available fares. Can you show us what ticket you’ve been buying?

brfares.com does now sell tickets. This is fulfilled by Raileasy but it is done via brfares.com. It's very useful as it sells any walk up fare without an itinerary or reservation, a rare way to do this online now "Mixing Deck" sites are dying out.

 

[waterpoo]

It's relatively rare, primarily in the South East, and Project Oval's single fare pricing is progressively removing it. It was once the case from Bletchley but hasn't been for a long time now.

It is the reason why that clause was added, though. It historically wasn't there until maybe the mid 2000s and so people did buy wrong direction returns and save money.

Yeah I genuinely didnt use the railway to get home coming back, not so stupid. I'm sure they'll update the pricing now!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah I genuinely didnt use the railway to get home coming back, not so stupid. I'm sure they'll update the pricing now!

It does appear that this is a legitimate if suspicious looking way to pay less for a single journey (the cheapest single is £25). I suspect we will see the fare increased to £25 in fairly short order now someone has been "caught" doing so.

How serious this is likely to be depends on whether you have ever actually travelled on the outward half after the return half or if you have genuinely only been using it as a means of getting a cheaper single journey, never returning by train or returning on a different ticket. Your case will be easier to defend if you did return by train but on a separate ticket you have evidence of.

Edit: oh, £20 with Railcard, so that would be £30 full fare so more expensive than that single. In that case there is no reason to buy that instead of a single, I was looking at non Railcard prices. If you did come back by coach you haven't done anything illegal, and the coach ticket would be a level of evidence you didn't (though nothing proves you travelled on the coach ticket of course), but if on a previous occasion you did return on it then that case could be prosecuted or subject to a settlement.

I am kind of inclined to think nothing will come of this case but you should stop doing it if you are travelling on the ticket backwards rather than only using one way in case you get caught in future. However if you get a letter either relating to this case or any previous cases where you potentially did travel "backwards" on both halves I'd say return and post it here and we can advise what to do.

 

[waterpoo]

It does appear that this is a legitimate if suspicious looking way to pay less for a single journey (the cheapest single is £25). I suspect we will see the fare increased to £25 in fairly short order now someone has been "caught" doing so.

How serious this is likely to be depends on whether you have ever actually travelled on the outward half after the return half or if you have genuinely only been using it as a means of getting a cheaper single journey, never returning by train or returning on a different ticket. Your case will be easier to defend if you did return by train but on a separate ticket you have evidence of.

I kept my coach ticket. Thank you.