Potential solutions for earth shifting after dry weather?

[renegademaster]

I have not thought this through deeply obviously, but if this was caused by earth shifting after dry weather, could a solution be either some kind of irrigation system in problem areas or having the RHTT train spray the track with water every night during dry weather.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have not thought this through deeply obviously, but if this was caused by earth shifting after dry weather, could a solution be either some kind of irrigation system in problem areas or having the RHTT train spray the track with water every night during dry weather.

This has been suggested many times.

The amount of water required even for one small site like this would be phenomenal. And there’s a hosepipe ban on!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The amount of water required even for one small site like this would be phenomenal. And there’s a hosepipe ban on!

But this doesn't apply to businesses if its for commercial or essential services. Maintaining and running a railway is an essential service

 

[Bald Rick]

But this doesn't apply to businesses if its for commercial or essential services. Maintaining and running a railway is an essential service

I know, but it’s not a good look with a train very publicly dumping a million litres of water a couple of times a week to keep just 1km of track ‘hydrated’ (that’s the sort of quantity we’re talking about). While Mrs Miggins can’t water her Dahlias.

 

[Magdalia]

I have not thought this through deeply obviously, but if this was caused by earth shifting after dry weather, could a solution be either some kind of irrigation system in problem areas or having the RHTT train spray the track with water every night during dry weather.

Here in the Fens lots of railway would need to be treated, and there would not be enough water to do it.

Firefighters had to resort to some fairly drastic measures, including closing waterways to navigation, to get water to fight the Holme Fen fire.

EDIT I have now found the BBC News story on this:

Boaters marooned in March due to emergency lock closures

Boaters from Northampton are stuck in March due to lock closures triggered by a large scale fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

A retired boat-dwelling couple fear they will be marooned for months due to efforts to fight a major wildfire and conserve water levels.

Terry and Margaret Watson, from Northampton, said emergency lock closures allowing firefighters to abstract water from the River Nene had left them stuck at Foxes Marina in March, Cambridgeshire - 80 miles (130km) from their usual home mooring.

Meanwhile, a couple mooring in the Ely area said they were stuck in Northampton.

The Middle Level Commissioners (MLC) body, which looks after the waterways in the Fens, said its system was acting as a "conduit" to transfer water to the Holme Fen fire area and working closely to support the various agencies involved.

 

[Technologist]

Here in the Fens lots of railway would need to be treated, and there would not be enough water to do it.

Firefighters had to resort to some fairly drastic measures, including closing waterways to navigation, to get water to fight the Holme Fen fire.

If we look at monthly rainfall about 50mm is typical in drier bits of the UK, if we needed to replicate this on 5% of the network to a width of 10m we would be looking about 400,000 tonnes.

That would be about 130 fully loaded tanker trains per month.

Sounds pretty doable

 

[positron]

This might be a silly suggestion but does it even have to be fresh water? Could you use sea water and thus not even use the precious fresh water reserves? Probably not great to dump a tonne of saline into the wider environment though.

I suspect the more viable long term plan is to reinforce and even rebuild some of these earth works to a higher modern standard?

 

[SynthD]

I suspect the more viable long term plan is to reinforce and even rebuild some of these earth works to a higher modern standard?

Jump straight to this plan. Are land anchors a relevant temporary measure before building a more technically planned embankment?

 

[Harpo]

I suspect the more viable long term plan is to reinforce and even rebuild some of these earth works to a higher modern standard?

Judging by the C2C restrictions, the impacts extend to all three basic earthwork forms of embankment, cutting and the following of flat terrain and extend for many miles. 2025’s restrictions were about 20 miles in total when I used it.

 

[Acathater]

This might be a silly suggestion but does it even have to be fresh water? Could you use sea water and thus not even use the precious fresh water reserves? Probably not great to dump a tonne of saline into the wider environment though.

I suspect the more viable long term plan is to reinforce and even rebuild some of these earth works to a higher modern standard?

Using sea water would result in salt poisoning the soil in surrounding fields, badly affecting plant growth. You'd also kill much of the river life, most of which isn't salt tolerant

 

[Mike Machin]

I have not thought this through deeply obviously, but if this was caused by earth shifting after dry weather, could a solution be either some kind of irrigation system in problem areas or having the RHTT train spray the track with water every night during dry weather.

The amount of water would be truly phenomenal! To have any effect whatsoever the amount of water in say a twenty tank wagon train would only cover around twice or three times the length of that train, meaning that a squadron of dozens (possibly hundreds) of such trains would be needed for each route.

With people in the South and South East not only living with a hosepipe ban, but having to endure low water pressure and disruption to their supplies, including a complete loss of mains water for several days at a time, watering railway infrastructure could never be justified. And, in drought hit areas, the amount of water needed simply isn’t available.

 

[Bald Rick]

If we look at monthly rainfall about 50mm is typical in drier bits of the UK, if we needed to replicate this on 5% of the network to a width of 10m we would be looking about 400,000 tonnes.

Don’t forget that in dry conditions, the whole area is dry. Water you spray onto the tracks will, very quickly, percolate to a much wider footprint than 10metres as it spreads out.

And also, in very dry conditions in summer water sprayed locally will evaporate very quickly. (Look up “effective rainfall”).

All told, you need about 2-3000 tonnes of water per km of route per week, minimum.

 

[brad465]

Don’t forget that in dry conditions, the whole area is dry. Water you spray onto the tracks will, very quickly, percolate to a much wider footprint than 10metres as it spreads out.

And also, in very dry conditions in summer water sprayed locally will evaporate very quickly. (Look up “effective rainfall”).

And that which doesn't evaporate is mostly absorbed by plants.

The amount of water would be truly phenomenal! To have any effect whatsoever the amount of water in say a twenty tank wagon train would only cover around twice or three times the length of that train, meaning that a squadron of dozens (possibly hundreds) of such trains would be needed for each route.

With people in the South and South East not only living with a hosepipe ban, but having to endure low water pressure and disruption to their supplies, including a complete loss of mains water for several days at a time, watering railway infrastructure could never be justified. And, in drought hit areas, the amount of water needed simply isn’t available.

Maybe what's needed is for water main leaks to only occur in the vicinity of railways in need of "watering"

 

[JamesT]

The proper solution is that the track sits on top of something that isn’t affected by prolonged hot weather. But I suspect that rebuilding on that scale will never happen.

 

[brad465]

I can't find a dedicated thread for the current WoE line situation, but the area should be getting a decent dollop of rain over the weekend, on top of sporadic rainfall this week so far. Hopefully this should at least stabilise the embankments; likewise for other areas struggling.

 

[Acathater]

I can't find a dedicated thread for the current WoE line situation, but the area should be getting a decent dollop of rain over the weekend, on top of sporadic rainfall this week so far. Hopefully this should at least stabilise the embankments; likewise for other areas struggling.

more likely to result in washouts, collapses, blocked drains, and floods