Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[overthewater]

Spotted a Lothian Motorcoaches vehicle on a West Lothian Council school contract today screened for West Calder High School. Took me by surprise as I’m not aware of them having ever taken on schools work before.

They had a contract in West Fife since last year.

 

[Scotrail344Lad]

Keep Seeing One In Bathgate (For St Kentigrens Academy).
Route SCH901 - Lucky Kids, Would imagine the bus would be comfy

 

[CSB0241]

Are there any bus stops that could be reinstated at the bottom end of Mayfield Road? Looks like quite a long gap between Kings Buildings and Kirk Brae.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did they not lay down cycle paths on that road? I might be wrong

They have indeed, yes, though with the new student accommodation at Liberton Dams it makes you wonder if stops will at the very least be instated there further down the line. Reinstating the stops at Hallhead Road could be nice but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Did a bit of playing about with the new/old timetables on BusTimes
ECB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 501 now 486 (2 extra 106s, 2 extra 107s, 2 less 124s, 9 less X5s, 10 less X7s, 2 more X4s)
Saturday: was 478 now 459 (10 less X5s, 9 less X7s)
Sunday: was 299 now 300 (1 more 106)

LCB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 545 now 539 (1 less 72, 1 extra 74, 6 less X19s)
Saturday: was 504 now 506 (3 less 72s, 1 extra 74, 4 extra X19s)
Sunday: was 429 now 444 (11 less 72s, 26 extra 73s)

LB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 5013 now 5100 (1 extra N25, 21 extra 7s, 1 extra 8, 1 less 11, 2 less 14s, 3 more 15s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 22, 2 extra 25s, 1 extra 31, 1 extra 32, 1 extra 35, 1 less 37, 1 extra 48, 1 extra 9, 3 extra N35s, 1 extra 9, 48 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Saturday: was 4437 now 4511 (15 extra 7s, 3 extra 8s, 1 extra 12, 2 less 14s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 25, 2 extra 26s, 2 less 37s, 1 extra 48, 2 extra 9s, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1 45 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Sunday: was 3439 now 3487 (41 extra 7s, 2 less 16s, 2 extra 21s, 1 less 36, 1 less 37, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)

Jeezo that must’ve taken you ages, props to you mate.


I’m overall fairly mixed on the changes this time around - definitely some good things but equally there were a few changes that I was a bit taken aback by (especially the new X5 timetable, I’m especially bewildered by that). Don’t particularly envision the 28 being Lothian’s busiest route but the link from the new estates at Gilmerton into town will hopefully go down well. Additionally the 28 provides a good link from the new student accommodation at Ellen’s Glen to Kings Buildings & Bristo Square.

Most of the EastCoast changes are far from anything to write home about, the extension of the Sunday 106 will be nice for people along the A199 corridor. The X5 cuts are extremely surprising to me, the new timetable is abhorrent. I’d personally argue that if anything the X5 & 124 should swap frequencies with one another (think the logic they used when switching the Sunday frequency on the X6 & X7 in Haddington way back yonder, albeit for the full week instead), though that’s a conversation I’ll save for the speculatory thread.

The 72 & X19 change is a bit odd but more than welcome. The X19 extension is a good enough alternative to reinstating the X17, & - as stated prior by another user - makes it stick out a bit more from the X38. I don’t envision many people using the X19 between Kirkliston & Livingston when they can just get the marginally quicker X51, though I’m sure the residents of Winchburgh & Broxburn will enjoy the faster bus into Livingston, even if it means a less frequent service from Winchburgh.

 

[paravostok]

They have indeed, yes, though with the new student accommodation at Liberton Dams it makes you wonder if stops will at the very least be instated there further down the line. Reinstating the stops at Hallhead Road could be nice but I wouldn’t bet on it.


Jeezo that must’ve taken you ages, props to you mate.


I’m overall fairly mixed on the changes this time around - definitely some good things but equally there were a few changes that I was a bit taken aback by (especially the new X5 timetable, I’m especially bewildered by that). Don’t particularly envision the 28 being Lothian’s busiest route but the link from the new estates at Gilmerton into town will hopefully go down well. Additionally the 28 provides a good link from the new student accommodation at Ellen’s Glen to Kings Buildings & Bristo Square.

Most of the EastCoast changes are far from anything to write home about, the extension of the Sunday 106 will be nice for people along the A199 corridor. The X5 cuts are extremely surprising to me, the new timetable is abhorrent. I’d personally argue that if anything the X5 & 124 should swap frequencies with one another (think the logic they used when switching the Sunday frequency on the X6 & X7 in Haddington way back yonder, albeit for the full week instead), though that’s a conversation I’ll save for the speculatory thread.

The 72 & X19 change is a bit odd but more than welcome. The X19 extension is a good enough alternative to reinstating the X17, & - as stated prior by another user - makes it stick out a bit more from the X38. I don’t envision many people using the X19 between Kirkliston & Livingston when they can just get the marginally quicker X51, though I’m sure the residents of Winchburgh & Broxburn will enjoy the faster bus into Livingston, even if it means a less frequent service from Winchburgh.

Im a little scared regarding the new X19, as it feels like it, the 902, and E19 are now all fighting for the same Livingston Centre - Uphall/Broxburn trunk, and given the X19 and 902 are hourly vs. the E19 every 20 minutes, not sure what this will mean unless the X19 starts doing better

 

[Edirim]

The journey stuff was just done using bustimes API and some excel magic.

Sadly block data is patchy on BusTimes but predictions for the new services based on the available data:
37A 05:47 M-F runs onto a 7 (although I think this will actually be a 24 at 06:49)
37A 05:52 SAT runs onto a 37
37A 05:51 SUN unknown block
37A 06:43 M-F runs onto a 28 at 08:05 from Gilmerton
37A 06:50 SAT unknown but assume 08:11 28 from Gilmerton
37A 06:51 SUN unknown as no service 28
37A 20:20 DAILY comes off a 11 - looks to be the one that ends as a 15 to Elm Row at 17:34

39A 05:54 DAILY runs onto a 5 at 07:02/07:13/06:51 from The Jewel
39A 06:54 DAILY unknown block
39A 20:20 DAILY comes off a 49 ending at Fort Kinnaird at 20:04 on M-F, 20:08 at the Royal on Saturdays but Sundays unsure.

 

[overthewater]

Im a little scared regarding the new X19, as it feels like it, the 902, and E19 are now all fighting for the same Livingston Centre - Uphall/Broxburn trunk, and given the X19 and 902 are hourly vs. the E19 every 20 minutes, not sure what this will mean unless the X19 starts doing better

The X19 is all stops in Uphall and Broxburn, and no high steps. The 902 only has a few stops, I can't see the 902 lasting long if E19/20 give it a good run for its money.,

It will be more X19 V E19 battle for Broxburn passengers.

 

[Baileygirl]

The X19 is all stops in Uphall and Broxburn, and no high steps. The 902 only has a few stops, I can't see the 902 lasting long if E19/20 give it a good run for its money.,

It will be more X19 V E19 battle for Broxburn passengers.

Don't see the E19 taking much traffic from the X19. You need to book the E19 and it's not very easy, they won't stop if you just put your hand out. Don't see it lasting long.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The E19 is complete overkill anyway. It’s one of a few of Ember’s dafter ideas.

The 902 is probably going to lose out if the E19 sticks. I wouldn’t think the X19 nor the 72 is related in any way to these.

 

[davp]

The X19 extension is a good enough alternative to reinstating the X17

The X19 is an additional 24 mins from the Livingston trunk to Newbridge than the X17. However the X17 was not well used past Broxburn to Livingston.

 

[Spsf3232]

E19 Vs X19 is irrelevant as Ember don't run to Edinburgh City Centre.

It is only an inservice depot placement to claim the milage back. The full service will be Livingston - Airport - Glasgow - Airport - Livingston and I wouldn't be surprised to see further expansion with other services being added to bring it up to a 20 minute service on both E19 services when more services launch

 

[overthewater]

The X19 is an additional 24 mins from the Livingston trunk to Newbridge than the X17. However the X17 was not well used past Broxburn to Livingston.

The old First bus service which operate the same route was. Ember is picking up more people but from Livingston bus stance.

 

[davp]

The old First bus service which operate the same route was. Ember is picking up more people but from Livingston bus stance.

Did it operate the same route? I thought it started at the airport. The X17 ran from Edinburgh and gave connections on the A8 direct to Livingston. It appeals to folks in the north of Livingston who don't want to endure the X27/28.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Did it operate the same route? I thought it started at the airport. The X17 ran from Edinburgh and gave connections on the A8 direct to Livingston. It appeals to folks in the north of Livingston who don't want to endure the X27/28.

Around the time the X19 was launched the First 25 ran to Edinburgh directly similar to the X17 route, I presume this is the one overthewater is referring to. The X17 was different in that it went through Craigshill before the Fastlink.
If not the 24 was the other but that one went through Pumpherston. Both later became the X24/X25 and lasted for a while longer, including with McGill's (as seen on this map https://images-mcgillsse.passenger-website.com/2022-11/West Lothian and Livingston.pdf ).

 

[overthewater]

There has been a fast bus to Broxburn for years, at least 25 years, at one points it was the old 651, then it become the 21. Then when the major overhaul took place it was 25 and 600.

 

[davp]

Around the time the X19 was launched the First 25 ran to Edinburgh directly similar to the X17 route, I presume this is the one overthewater is referring to. The X17 was different in that it went through Craigshill before the Fastlink.
If not the 24 was the other but that one went through Pumpherston. Both later became the X24/X25 and lasted for a while longer, including with McGill's (as seen on this map https://images-mcgillsse.passenger-website.com/2022-11/West Lothian and Livingston.pdf ).

Understood. But my comment was about the additional 24 mins because of diverting through Winchburgh. The only First service I know of going through Winchburgh from Livingston was the 600 and would have had similar journey times. The X25 takes a substantially different route to the X19.

There has been a fast bus to Broxburn for years, at least 25 years, at one points it was the old 651, then it become the 21. Then when the major overhaul took place it was 25 and 600.

I'm not talking about a fast bus to Broxburn. I'm referring to the X17 which was Livingston trunk and then followed X18. The 600 finished at the airport and I don't think the 25 went near Winchburgh.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Understood. But my comment was about the additional 24 mins because of diverting through Winchburgh. The only First service I know of going through Winchburgh from Livingston was the 600 and would have had similar journey times. The X25 takes a substantially different route to the X19.


I'm not talking about a fast bus to Broxburn. I'm referring to the X17 which was Livingston trunk and then followed X18. The 600 finished at the airport and I don't think the 25 went near Winchburgh.

It's a fair point to make. Myself as someone who used the X17 to get to Livingston as a more convenient option I am not deterred by the increased journey time given the limited choice. Particularly if it is necessary to preserve the other links the X19 already had, which (in my observation) did not perform well. So it could well be the way to save the route in it's entirety. I'm not sure if all users will appreciate the deviated route but having something again after losing the X17/X24/X25 is still a positive development!

I presume regarding Broxburn > Livingston you mean that this is somewhere the X19 may perform better vs the X17 with thanks to the Winchburgh section, even with the increase in journey time for other users?
This is certainly the comment that overthewater was responding too. On the outside it looked like you were saying the X17 didn't perform well here, so the X19 won't either.

 

[LiviCrazy]

There has been a fast bus to Broxburn for years, at least 25 years, at one points it was the old 651, then it become the 21. Then when the major overhaul took place it was 25 and 600.

651 was a takeover from Nordi’s Dunfermline service. The predecessors to the x24 and x25 was the 12/16 (with the 10 operating a very similar route to the current X18) then the 21/22. I believe they launched around 2000 as I know prior to that if we were going to Corstorphine from Livingston we had to get the 27/28 to Sighthill and walk down.

 

[Busman757]

Having driven the X17, the service was busy at certain times of the day on the Broxburn to Livingston part. A lot of passengers commented that they liked the faster service to Livingston. I feel the Deer Park section might be might busier now that Starbucks, Greggs and McDonald’s are now there. For myself as a Kirkliston resident I’m just glad they haven’t gotten rid of the service, however I do feel this will be last chance saloon. We just need people to use it.

 

[Baileygirl]

Understood. But my comment was about the additional 24 mins because of diverting through Winchburgh. The only First service I know of going through Winchburgh from Livingston was the 600 and would have had similar journey times. The X25 takes a substantially different route to the X19.


I'm not talking about a fast bus to Broxburn. I'm referring to the X17 which was Livingston trunk and then followed X18. The 600 finished at the airport and I don't think the 25 went near Winchburgh.

The X17 went through Pumpherston,Uphall and Broxburm to Edinburgh. It replaced the 287 which only went to Broxburn. First 22 then 21/21A also went through Winchburgh before the 600.

 

[Humberscot]

They have indeed, yes, though with the new student accommodation at Liberton Dams it makes you wonder if stops will at the very least be instated there further down the line. Reinstating the stops at Hallhead Road could be nice but I wouldn’t bet on it.


Jeezo that must’ve taken you ages, props to you mate.


I’m overall fairly mixed on the changes this time around - definitely some good things but equally there were a few changes that I was a bit taken aback by (especially the new X5 timetable, I’m especially bewildered by that). Don’t particularly envision the 28 being Lothian’s busiest route but the link from the new estates at Gilmerton into town will hopefully go down well. Additionally the 28 provides a good link from the new student accommodation at Ellen’s Glen to Kings Buildings & Bristo Square.

Most of the EastCoast changes are far from anything to write home about, the extension of the Sunday 106 will be nice for people along the A199 corridor. The X5 cuts are extremely surprising to me, the new timetable is abhorrent. I’d personally argue that if anything the X5 & 124 should swap frequencies with one another (think the logic they used when switching the Sunday frequency on the X6 & X7 in Haddington way back yonder, albeit for the full week instead), though that’s a conversation I’ll save for the speculatory thread.

The 72 & X19 change is a bit odd but more than welcome. The X19 extension is a good enough alternative to reinstating the X17, & - as stated prior by another user - makes it stick out a bit more from the X38. I don’t envision many people using the X19 between Kirkliston & Livingston when they can just get the marginally quicker X51, though I’m sure the residents of Winchburgh & Broxburn will enjoy the faster bus into Livingston, even if it means a less frequent service from Winchburgh.

The X19/72 change is interesting, bordering on slightly odd tbh. Am coming at it from a Winchburgh perspective with nearly weekly travel on both. Currently the 72 is well used from Winchburgh to Livingston and is developing good usage with residents having enjoyed the change from every hour to every 45 mins - word was 'this could well be heading for a 30 mins frequency '. The current X19 is not really well utilised outwith peak hours - for us as a family, the fact that if we go into Edinburgh, you usually have to wait for the hourly return is a major factor in choosing the McGills X38 most times which has a half-hourly service. Whilst not perfect, McGills have really upped their game from pre-Covid days and of course the lower ticket price is a factor. The X19 to Edinburgh hasn't really captured the big market for Winchburgh into Edinburgh which is a shame as Winchburgh is growing in population size all the time. In summary it is a bit baffling that one route which is ripe for further growth is being scaled back, whilst another for which there seems little interest is being slightly amended. We will wait to see what comes of these changes.

 

[stevenedin]

926 has been sold according to bustimes

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

926 has been sold according to bustimes

It has. It and 11 7900’s currently reside at Seafield.

 

[overthewater]

The X19/72 change is interesting, bordering on slightly odd tbh. Am coming at it from a Winchburgh perspective with nearly weekly travel on both. Currently the 72 is well used from Winchburgh to Livingston and is developing good usage with residents having enjoyed the change from every hour to every 45 mins - word was 'this could well be heading for a 30 mins frequency '. The current X19 is not really well utilised outwith peak hours - for us as a family, the fact that if we go into Edinburgh, you usually have to wait for the hourly return is a major factor in choosing the McGills X38 most times which has a half-hourly service. Whilst not perfect, McGills have really upped their game from pre-Covid days and of course the lower ticket price is a factor. The X19 to Edinburgh hasn't really captured the big market for Winchburgh into Edinburgh which is a shame as Winchburgh is growing in population size all the time. In summary it is a bit baffling that one route which is ripe for further growth is being scaled back, whilst another for which there seems little interest is being slightly amended. We will wait to see what comes of these changes.

Service X19 is now faster to St John Hospital and Designer outlet and restores the service back to what it should have been operating as.

I think long term the X19 will end up being every 30mins to livingston, but the 72 will carry on at the strange 40min freq. The hope was if the 72 did become every 30mins it would extend to Harthill once per hour instead of Fauldhouse.

 

[jb66]

Won't the shorter 72 route make it possible to align it to be every 30mins

 

[Baileygirl]

Service X19 is now faster to St John Hospital and Designer outlet and restores the service back to what it should have been operating as.

I think long term the X19 will end up being every 30mins to livingston, but the 72 will carry on at the strange 40min freq. The hope was if the 72 did become every 30mins it would extend to Harthill once per hour instead of Fauldhouse.

The services west of Livingston are still dire with either 40 or hourly service. Like a Sunday all week. Traffic is now horrendous, used to be 15 or 30 minute frequency. Only decent services are the X18, X27 and X28.

 

[zjsptgzxyspks]

They could probably try a seasonal timetable on the X5, summer timetable between 1 Apr - 30 Sept being every hour with the last departure from North Berwick around 18:30.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Service X19 is now faster to St John Hospital and Designer outlet and restores the service back to what it should have been operating as.

I think long term the X19 will end up being every 30mins to livingston, but the 72 will carry on at the strange 40min freq. The hope was if the 72 did become every 30mins it would extend to Harthill once per hour instead of Fauldhouse.

Doubt they'd extend it to Harthill with it being in North Lanarkshire, be the first Lothian bus in recent times they operated outwith the Lothian area if that was the case, Greenrigg possibly cause it's still West Lothian

 

[overthewater]

Up at the SVBM over the weekend they were selling off Lothian bus timetable booklets for Fiver, dated 2022. What is the story as to why they were never given out to the public?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Up at the SVBM over the weekend they were selling off Lothian bus timetable booklets for Fiver, dated 2022. What is the story as to why they were never given out to the public?

Travelshop closed due to COVID perhaps?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Travelshop closed due to COVID perhaps?

What would that have to do with 2022?