Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

A bit of a mistake with the 106 changes appearing again under the 107. Took me a second to realise.
I was hoping for a network map as well. This article generally fills a bit messier or rushed this time around.

 

[Avenger20]

29’s terminus appears to be at the main terminus rather than the shops. Wonder how that works? Or if it’s simply an error.

Can’t help but feel the 28 fails a bit by missing out Rodney Street. This would’ve offered the students a faster link to the Central Area and King’s Buildings, but it is what it is.

According to the published map for the route, it does continue to Rodney Street to turn. Not sure if it will serve any stops in doing so.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

According to the published map for the route, it does continue to Rodney Street to turn. Not sure if it will serve any stops in doing so.

Based on that map, it’s using the turning point next to the Bellevue Crescent stop.

 

[overthewater]

There seems to be a lot "funded by SEStran" Has they been some new funding package unveiled?

 

[Avenger20]

A disappointing raft of changes, and a real terms network reduction in East Lothian which has been an ongoing trend for a few years now. They can only get away with this for so long before they lose the little remaining support of the travelling public.

 

[overthewater]

A disappointing raft of changes, and a real terms network reduction in East Lothian which has been an ongoing trend for a few years now. They can only get away with this for so long before they lose the little remaining support of the travelling public.

They area facing the same problems as First group, Big question has to be, why are they losing drivers? is it because of the lower pay? Of course higher pay might mean certain routes accounts are no longer balanced?

X7 every 20mins was an overkill, but it does either needs deckers or they need to start running Short workings between Haddington and Fort Kinnard.

 

[H00V3R]

X7 every 20mins was an overkill, but it does either needs deckers or they need to start running Short workings between Haddington and Fort Kinnard.

Deckers are a non starter on the full route, There’s a low bridge in East Linton and another in Dunbar and neither can really be avoided. The short decker runs to the east end of Haddington at peak times seem to do the job nicely.

 

[gavin1985]

Also Lothian clearly remaining committed to the 31 routing via West Craigs even if it's not made possible yet and despite community push back.

The reason for the push back was the proposed bus gate being switched from peak times to 7-7-7.

Having recently moved into the area I can genuinely see the bus gate working with the 7-7-7 times. General traffic would need to go via a new junction at Craig’s Road, which in my opinion works better than the Turnhouse junction itself.
For the sake of getting buses here I’d take the bus gate and move on.

 

[styles]

The reason for the push back was the proposed bus gate being switched from peak times to 7-7-7.

Having recently moved into the area I can genuinely see the bus gate working with the 7-7-7 times. General traffic would need to go via a new junction at Craig’s Road, which in my opinion works better than the Turnhouse junction itself.
For the sake of getting buses here I’d take the bus gate and move on.

Tbh it's one of those changes which, once it's been in place for a year or so, nobody will care.

 

[JKP]

There seems to be a lot "funded by SEStran" Has they been some new funding package unveiled?

Sestran have been providing funding under a transport to work heading. Scottish Borders Council used this to start new route 44 Hawick to Borders General Hospital via Lilliesleaf and Selkirk in early July.

 

[Auld reekie]

The 44 is still rubbish.

 

[overthewater]

Sestran have been providing funding under a transport to work heading. Scottish Borders Council used this to start new route 44 Hawick to Borders General Hospital via Lilliesleaf and Selkirk in early July.

Cheers for that, Strangely Falkirk has not partaken in using this fund as of yet. ( Fife has with its new W3)

 

[buslad1988]

This change whilst it brings a few improvements is mainly re-organising a few minor things. Not every change has to include massive alterations.

Next year may be a different story however with all the new stock.

 

[overthewater]

At least the important bits got some improvements like West Lothian, Alas the X19 isn't prefect it seem the public have already spotted the nasty gap in the morning peak to Livingston, They should have been a bus leaving winchburgh to Livingston at 8am. It's a step in the right direction. I'm not sure why those 37A and 39A return trips are at 8.20pm the staff leave at 7.30pm?

How is East coast buses going to resolve thier driver issues, surly the pay rate is decent for Dunbar?

 

[Tayway]

Are there any bus stops that could be reinstated at the bottom end of Mayfield Road? Looks like quite a long gap between Kings Buildings and Kirk Brae.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

For the sake of getting buses here I’d take the bus gate and move on.

I also noticed it on the 32 timetable so clearly it's all buses on that corridor they want running via West Craig's, whenever that'll be at this point!

At least the important bits got some improvements like West Lothian, Alas the X19 isn't prefect it seem the public have already spotted the nasty gap in the morning peak to Livingston, They should have been a bus leaving winchburgh to Livingston at 8am. It's a step in the right direction.

Glad to see there is some silver lining here on all of this, hope this change sticks and improves, now it feels more like a unique route rather than a blatant X38 clone!

Are there any bus stops that could be reinstated at the bottom end of Mayfield Road? Looks like quite a long gap between Kings Buildings and Kirk Brae.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did they not lay down cycle paths on that road? I might be wrong

 

[gavin1985]

I also noticed it on the 32 timetable so clearly it's all buses on that corridor they want running via West Craig's, whenever that'll be at this point!

Good spot there with the 32 timetable. If it is via West Craigs along Craigs Road and Turnhouse Road they kept that super quiet!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 29 will be terminating at the main Silverknowes Stops at the Golf Course, sharing the stop with the 37.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 29 will be terminating at the main Silverknowes Stops at the Golf Course, sharing the stop with the 37.

What a shame, it was nice having a bus down to the Promenade while it lasted, wonder if it will ever come back?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

What a shame, it was nice having a bus down to the Promenade while it lasted, wonder if it will ever come back?

It was always pretty pointless as it didn’t actually terminate down there. At that time the 29 had a 20-25 minute layover outside the Club House, so you had to sit on the bus for that duration before you got anywhere or hope the previous bus hadn’t left which allowed you to swap onto it. So pretty useful to get to the Beach, but absolutely useless to go back towards town. I also never got why it did it all day all year. Who on earth was going down there at 11 o clock at night in the winter? Nobody.

I think what Lothian’s done is probably the best compromise as having all 4 services terminate at the Main Stops allows for an easy interchange between them. The issue with the Shops terminus is that it was a bit far up. I am a little surprised they’re happy using the turning point on the road, but it will work.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It was always pretty pointless as it didn’t actually terminate down there. At that time the 29 had a 20-25 minute layover outside the Club House, so you had to sit on the bus for that duration before you got anywhere or hope the previous bus hadn’t left which allowed you to swap onto it. So pretty useful to get to the Beach, but absolutely useless to go back towards town. I also never got why it did it all day all year. Who on earth was going down there at 11 o clock at night in the winter? Nobody.

To be fair, I agree with you there, the original part when it used to terminate down at the promanande rather than just serve it before the golf club layover was the better plan, why they changed that was just stupid and unnecessary, they should of done what the old 42 used to do and go down Marine Drive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

Had a little fun experiment with the new timetables tonight at work, I was trying to figure out timings for certain services for seamless connections, the one in fixating on at the moment is the 71 and X19, as Queensferry doesn't have a service to Livingston, I figured I would figure out if connections are viable between the two services heading west bound.

08:04 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
25-minute wait
08:29 – X19 departs for Livingston

09:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
09:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

10:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
10:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

11:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
11:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

12:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
12:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

13:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
13:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

14:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
16-minute wait
14:28 – X19 departs for Livingston

15:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
20-minute wait
15:32 – X19 departs for Livingston

16:22 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
20-minute wait
16:42 – X19 departs for Livingston

17:29 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
14-minute wait
17:43 – X19 departs for Livingston

The last two services and the first one are impossible as you just miss the connections, but you get the idea.

 

[paravostok]

To be fair, I agree with you there, the original part when it used to terminate down at the promanande rather than just serve it before the golf club layover was the better plan, why they changed that was just stupid and unnecessary, they should of done what the old 42 used to do and go down Marine Drive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

Had a little fun experiment with the new timetables tonight at work, I was trying to figure out timings for certain services for seamless connections, the one in fixating on at the moment is the 71 and X19, as Queensferry doesn't have a service to Livingston, I figured I would figure out if connections are viable between the two services heading west bound.

08:04 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
25-minute wait
08:29 – X19 departs for Livingston

09:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
09:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

10:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
10:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

11:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
11:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

12:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
12:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

13:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
15-minute wait
13:27 – X19 departs for Livingston

14:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
16-minute wait
14:28 – X19 departs for Livingston

15:12 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
20-minute wait
15:32 – X19 departs for Livingston

16:22 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
20-minute wait
16:42 – X19 departs for Livingston

17:29 – Service 71 arrives at Kirkliston
14-minute wait
17:43 – X19 departs for Livingston

The last two services and the first one are impossible as you just miss the connections, but you get the idea.

I've always thought they should just run the n43 route on the 43, or atleast the section between winchburgh and edinburgh, as it only adds a few minutes of travel time and would have meant a reduction in pvr for the x19

 

[Edirim]

Did a bit of playing about with the new/old timetables on BusTimes
ECB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 501 now 486 (2 extra 106s, 2 extra 107s, 2 less 124s, 9 less X5s, 10 less X7s, 2 more X4s)
Saturday: was 478 now 459 (10 less X5s, 9 less X7s)
Sunday: was 299 now 300 (1 more 106)

LCB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 545 now 539 (1 less 72, 1 extra 74, 6 less X19s)
Saturday: was 504 now 506 (3 less 72s, 1 extra 74, 4 extra X19s)
Sunday: was 429 now 444 (11 less 72s, 26 extra 73s)

LB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 5013 now 5100 (1 extra N25, 21 extra 7s, 1 extra 8, 1 less 11, 2 less 14s, 3 more 15s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 22, 2 extra 25s, 1 extra 31, 1 extra 32, 1 extra 35, 1 less 37, 1 extra 48, 1 extra 9, 3 extra N35s, 1 extra 9, 48 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Saturday: was 4437 now 4511 (15 extra 7s, 3 extra 8s, 1 extra 12, 2 less 14s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 25, 2 extra 26s, 2 less 37s, 1 extra 48, 2 extra 9s, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1 45 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Sunday: was 3439 now 3487 (41 extra 7s, 2 less 16s, 2 extra 21s, 1 less 36, 1 less 37, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)

 

[stevenedin]

Did a bit of playing about with the new/old timetables on BusTimes
ECB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 501 now 486 (2 extra 106s, 2 extra 107s, 2 less 124s, 9 less X5s, 10 less X7s, 2 more X4s)
Saturday: was 478 now 459 (10 less X5s, 9 less X7s)
Sunday: was 299 now 300 (1 more 106)

LCB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 545 now 539 (1 less 72, 1 extra 74, 6 less X19s)
Saturday: was 504 now 506 (3 less 72s, 1 extra 74, 4 extra X19s)
Sunday: was 429 now 444 (11 less 72s, 26 extra 73s)

LB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 5013 now 5100 (1 extra N25, 21 extra 7s, 1 extra 8, 1 less 11, 2 less 14s, 3 more 15s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 22, 2 extra 25s, 1 extra 31, 1 extra 32, 1 extra 35, 1 less 37, 1 extra 48, 1 extra 9, 3 extra N35s, 1 extra 9, 48 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Saturday: was 4437 now 4511 (15 extra 7s, 3 extra 8s, 1 extra 12, 2 less 14s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 25, 2 extra 26s, 2 less 37s, 1 extra 48, 2 extra 9s, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1 45 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Sunday: was 3439 now 3487 (41 extra 7s, 2 less 16s, 2 extra 21s, 1 less 36, 1 less 37, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)

Wow thanks for taking the time to do this. This is really interesting

 

[NorthEastern]

Did a bit of playing about with the new/old timetables on BusTimes
ECB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 501 now 486 (2 extra 106s, 2 extra 107s, 2 less 124s, 9 less X5s, 10 less X7s, 2 more X4s)
Saturday: was 478 now 459 (10 less X5s, 9 less X7s)
Sunday: was 299 now 300 (1 more 106)

LCB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 545 now 539 (1 less 72, 1 extra 74, 6 less X19s)
Saturday: was 504 now 506 (3 less 72s, 1 extra 74, 4 extra X19s)
Sunday: was 429 now 444 (11 less 72s, 26 extra 73s)

LB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 5013 now 5100 (1 extra N25, 21 extra 7s, 1 extra 8, 1 less 11, 2 less 14s, 3 more 15s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 22, 2 extra 25s, 1 extra 31, 1 extra 32, 1 extra 35, 1 less 37, 1 extra 48, 1 extra 9, 3 extra N35s, 1 extra 9, 48 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Saturday: was 4437 now 4511 (15 extra 7s, 3 extra 8s, 1 extra 12, 2 less 14s, 1 less 16, 1 extra 25, 2 extra 26s, 2 less 37s, 1 extra 48, 2 extra 9s, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1 45 new 28s, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)
Sunday: was 3439 now 3487 (41 extra 7s, 2 less 16s, 2 extra 21s, 1 less 36, 1 less 37, 2 extra N35s, 1 extra N1, 3 new 37As, 3 new 39As)

Good effort mate

 

[overthewater]

Had a little fun experiment with the new timetables tonight at work, I was trying to figure out timings for certain services for seamless connections, the one in fixating on at the moment is the 71 and X19, as Queensferry doesn't have a service to Livingston, I figured I would figure out if connections are viable between the two services heading west bound.

Queensferry still has X51, so most passengers use that service as it's faster, I suspect many Kirkliston passengers will also stick to the X51 as its faster.

LCB journey stats:
Weekdays: was 545 now 539 (1 less 72, 1 extra 74, 6 less X19s)
Saturday: was 504 now 506 (3 less 72s, 1 extra 74, 4 extra X19s)
Sunday: was 429 now 444 (11 less 72s, 26 extra 73s)

How many buses are still in use?

 

[Bus9120UK]

All Lothian Country routes are moving to the Lothian Buses LTD license PM0000002 from the change.
This is already showing now if you search PM0000002 here: https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/

 

[LothianBusesPh]

All Lothian Country routes are moving to the Lothian Buses LTD license PM0000002 from the change.
This is already showing now if you search PM0000002 here: https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/

Lothian Motorcoaches are also moving to that licence. Of course it doesn't affect routes.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I've always thought they should just run the n43 route on the 43, or atleast the section between winchburgh and edinburgh, as it only adds a few minutes of travel time and would have meant a reduction in pvr for the x19

Daytime journeys using this route between Regent Road and Winchburgh are hardly going to be the 52 minutes of the N43. Reliability of the 43 would be hit and there seems very little demand beyond Queensferry. Services like the 71, 72 and X19 aren't really commercially viable at present.

 

[mb88]

Spotted a Lothian Motorcoaches vehicle on a West Lothian Council school contract today screened for West Calder High School. Took me by surprise as I’m not aware of them having ever taken on schools work before.