1970-1974 WCML Weaver Jct -Glasgow electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

I thought I would start a thread on this topic because I would like to see if there are still people around that remember it. I am attaching a photograph of the wiring train doing its stuff 3.9 miles north of Preston at the now removed crossover that then continued onto the Barton and Broughton loop. It is a scanned colour slide so I appologize for the quality.

 

[Beebman]

There's a very good BTF film about the project called 'Wires Over The Border' (which I remember being shown at the time on BBC2) that thanks to the Bennett Brook Railway channel is available for viewing:

This vintage railway film, produced by British Transport Films in 1974, is an account, in human and non-technical terms, of the electrification of the West Coast main line railway from Crewe to Glasgow; the logical completion of the Liverpool-Manchester-London electrification of 1966.

It covers not just the electrification work but also resignalling, track renewals and the construction (including driver training) of the 87s.

 

[Peterthegreat]

There is also a book by O.S. Nock entitled "Electric London to Glasgow" which was published around 1974.

 

[jfollows]

Family canal boat holiday on the Lancaster canal, probably summer 1973, observed wiring work at, I think, Garstang.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Family canal boat holiday on the Lancaster canal, probably summer 1973, observed wiring work at, I think, Garstang.

That would make sense. The grid feeder at Catterall is fairly close by too.

 

[Lloyds siding]

Yes, saw quite a bit of this going on in my first year at Lancaster uni (1973-74). A friend's uncle made the copper for the overhead wire at BICC, Prescot....when I say made it: he mixed the exact alloy mix which was then melted to make the wire. Another friend's dad was chief engineer and designer of the BCR electrolytic refinery on the BICC site, making the very pure copper used for the wire.

 

[Taunton]

There seemed different approaches between the LMR and the Scottish Region for how the works were done, each presumably planned their own work. In those times the WCML was far busier overnight than in the day (seems strange now), with sleepers, mail, newspapers, much of the freight, etc, and the ScR closed north of Carlisle for several years from 0600 to 1800 each day to allow daytime works. I have to say I was a regular along the parallel A74 road during this time (in significant part because of the closure) and never saw a single works train there, but whatever. Passenger services to Glasgow were diverted via the G&SW through Dumfries.

Edinburgh was notably left out on a limb. The Waverley route had closed only shortly before the electrification was announced, I have wondered if it had hung on a bit it would never have closed while being a diversion route, and by the time the electrification was complete attitudes might well have changed, if only north of Hawick. There was a Birmingham to Edinburgh daytime service, which north of Carlisle was run via the G&SW, reverse at Glasgow Central, and then via Shotts to Edinburgh. It would have been quicker from Carlisle to go via Newcastle.

In England much of the freight was diverted via the Settle & Carlisle, which had a notable boost for a few years until works were complete.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There seemed different approaches between the LMR and the Scottish Region for how the works were done, each presumably planned their own work. In those times the WCML was far busier overnight than in the day (seems strange now), with sleepers, mail, newspapers, much of the freight, etc, and the ScR closed north of Carlisle for several years from 0600 to 1800 each day to allow daytime works. I have to say I was a regular along the parallel A74 road during this time (in significant part because of the closure) and never saw a single works train there, but whatever. Passenger services to Glasgow were diverted via the G&SW through Dumfries.

Edinburgh was notably left out on a limb. The Waverley route had closed only shortly before the electrification was announced, I have wondered if it had hung on a bit it would never have closed while being a diversion route, and by the time the electrification was complete attitudes might well have changed, if only north of Hawick. There was a Birmingham to Edinburgh daytime service, which north of Carlisle was run via the G&SW, reverse at Glasgow Central, and then via Shotts to Edinburgh. It would have been quicker from Carlisle to go via Newcastle.

In England much of the freight was diverted via the Settle & Carlisle, which had a notable boost for a few years until works were complete.

BR got the business case for Weaver / Glasgow electrification past the Minister on the basis that the Settle & Carlisle could be closed - fortunately that never came to pass. Electrification of connecting lines to Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool and Morecambe had to be dropped though - happily now resolved except for the last. O. S. Nock was pretty grumpy in his column about the proposed timings for the 'Royal Scot' et al - 'barely competitive' as I recall.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes, saw quite a bit of this going on in my first year at Lancaster uni (1973-74). A friend's uncle made the copper for the overhead wire at BICC, Prescot....when I say made it: he mixed the exact alloy mix which was then melted to make the wire. Another friend's dad was chief engineer and designer of the BCR electrolytic refinery on the BICC site, making the very pure copper used for the wire.

It was actually alloyed with a trace of Cadmium.

 

[70014IronDuke]

There seemed different approaches between the LMR and the Scottish Region for how the works were done, each presumably planned their own work. In those times the WCML was far busier overnight than in the day (seems strange now), with sleepers, mail, newspapers, much of the freight, etc, and the ScR closed north of Carlisle for several years from 0600 to 1800 each day to allow daytime works. I have to say I was a regular along the parallel A74 road during this time (in significant part because of the closure) and never saw a single works train there, but whatever. Passenger services to Glasgow were diverted via the G&SW through Dumfries.

2 x Cl 50s over the Glasgow and South Western must have produced timings never, ever seen before. Pity I never took the chance to do that at the time.

Edinburgh was notably left out on a limb. The Waverley route had closed only shortly before the electrification was announced, I have wondered if it had hung on a bit it would never have closed while being a diversion route, and by the time the electrification was complete attitudes might well have changed, if only north of Hawick.

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if they even thought of re-opening it? Or perhaps, that was one reason for closing it ASAP when they did?

 

[Taunton]

BR got the business case for Weaver / Glasgow electrification past the Minister on the basis that the Settle & Carlisle could be closed - fortunately that never came to pass. Electrification of connecting lines to Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool and Morecambe had to be dropped though

I wonder if the wired loop through Earlestown was a hangover from links to Liverpool and Manchester. That never seemed to be meaningfully used for electric traction.

 

[Lloyds siding]

It was actually alloyed with a trace of Cadmium.

Indeed, hence the need for a special mix.

 

[Beebman]

I wonder if the wired loop through Earlestown was a hangover from links to Liverpool and Manchester. That never seemed to be meaningfully used for electric traction.

I believe it acted as the relief lines for the 2-track section between Winwick Jct and Golborne Jct so in theory freight should have gone that way on a regular basis.

 

[52290]

I wonder if the wired loop through Earlestown was a hangover from links to Liverpool and Manchester. That never seemed to be meaningfully used for electric traction.

Once when traveling from Preston to London my electrically hauled train was diverted via Earlestown to Warrington due to engineering works, in the 1980's I think.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Once when traveling from Preston to London my electrically hauled train was diverted via Earlestown to Warrington due to engineering works, in the 1980's I think.

Yes I had that on more than 1 occasion in the 1980s.

 

[Solweytracker]

...the ScR closed north of Carlisle for several years from 0600 to 1800 each day to allow daytime works. I have to say I was a regular along the parallel A74 road during this time (in significant part because of the closure) and never saw a single works train there, but whatever.

The electrification teams definitely used works trains during the day on the Gretna to Glasgow WCML section, including to drill the holes for the mast foundations, where suitable, and another train had facilities to mix and pour the concrete for the foundations. I worked on the latter for a short while during a uni. vacation ca 1971. These would have been operated from Carstairs and/or Beattock to the border, I cannot remember which; I think with EE Type 1s as traction. I remember they had a staff 'comforts coach' with a cooking area, where a partly incapacitated gentleman was paid by some of the others to prepare meals for them. There would also have been wiring trains, obviously.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

2 x Cl 50s over the Glasgow and South Western must have produced timings never, ever seen before. Pity I never took the chance to do that at the time.

Peaks were used too e.g. on the Thames Clyde express. I certainly had D60 Lytham St Annes and others

 

[jfollows]

2 x Cl 50s over the Glasgow and South Western must have produced timings never, ever seen before. Pity I never took the chance to do that at the time.

2h26 Crewe-Carlisle non-stop D455 1S57 10:05 Euston-Glasgow
2h30m Carlisle-Crewe with a stop at Preston 1M30 11:20 Glasgow-Euston (1h53m Glasgow-Carlisle)
From 1971-72 working timetable
Oh but maybe not G&SW; https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/article-on-wcml-electrification.267668/post-6769728 has more information.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I started as a railman* at Preston station on 22 July 1974 and dealt with the first summer of electric trains which were quite a novelty. There was a lot of engine-changing and portion-working: Euston-Blackpool, Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh, etc.

* There were no "railwomen"!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I started as a railman* at Preston station on 22 July 1974 and dealt with the first summer of electric trains which were quite a novelty. There was a lot of engine-changing and portion-working: Euston-Blackpool, Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh, etc.

* There were no "railwomen"!

Shunter to contact 20 - was a frequent Preston Station announcement in those days.

 

[AndrewE]

It was actually alloyed with a trace of Cadmium.

Indeed, hence the need for a special mix.

I think it was a standard BS alloy, and the cadmium makes it a bit harder (wear resistant.)

 

[Polarbear]

I recall the many diverted trains coming through Chester station in the 1971-1973 period. Didn’t know why they stopped in 1973 at the time, but I understand the Weaver Junction-Preston section was energised at some point in 1973, with electric working as far as Preston for a short time?

 

[Taunton]

I was working in Glasgow in May 1974 and just chanced to have gone into the centre on the first day, so went to Central station and saw the first London train in at 1245, spot on time. Very small reception, a few rail management, one with a camera, couple of porters, passengers all came off, that was it. I'd arrived there a couple of weeks previously, everything still seemed diesel, it was a notable quick and quiet transition. The key Euston trains each way were morning 0745-1245, and evening 1745-2245, just 5 hours each way, and day return tickets were offered from both ends with quite a number taking advantage.

I believe Weaver to Preston was energised for May 1973, it was north of there that changed over in May 1974.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

------- but I understand the Weaver Junction-Preston section was energised at some point in 1973, with electric working as far as Preston for a short time?

Correct. Electric change over to diesel at Preston in that time period. (I cleared my electrics for sight because of this). The 87s introduced just after were very easy and i saw them being built in Crewe Works anyway.

 

[Beebman]

The key Euston trains each way were morning 0745-1245, and evening 1745-2245, just 5 hours each way, and day return tickets were offered from both ends with quite a number taking advantage.

My Dad took advantage of the tickets which I'm sure were £5 day return and we went on a family trip from Euston to Glasgow and back. The outward trip was hauled by 87001. It was my first ever visit to Glasgow and we did a circuit of the subway which still had its original cars and I remember getting a glimpse of the depot crane hoist. The only other thing of railway interest I remember seeing was the two class 20 bankers at Beattock Summit, one of which was still in green livery.

 

[Crisso]

Memory permitting, I recollect taking the down Royal Scot on a Friday in September 1972, departing from London Euston at 10.05 hours, consisting of Mk2a/Mk1 stock hauled by an electric Class 86 Loco. It was a very fast non stop run to Basford Hall but, we then stopped there for several minutes, before entering Crewe for a protracted Engine change to a single Class 50 Diesel. A fast onward journey to just past Weaver Junction then, we encountered several pws slowings/track occupations, passing at least two works trains on adjacent tracks, boldly emblazoned on the vehicle sides on large yellow panels in black type - EUSTON TO GLASGOW ELECTRIFICATION. Beyond Preston via Shap to Carlisle, progress was faster but not spectacular, due to only one Diesel Loco allocated. North of Carlisle, we took the G&SW Route via Kilmarnock and, eventually arrived at Glasgow Central around 40-45 minutes late.

Since it was just a long weekend away with my then girlfriend, the return journey on the Sunday departing at midday took 9 hours to Euston! Albeit, an interesting one, again via the G&SW to Carlisle then, over the Settle Route on via Blackburn and Bolton, where eventually on the outskirts of Manchester, we switched to Electric traction for the remainder.

 

[Magdalia]

I understand the Weaver Junction-Preston section was energised at some point in 1973, with electric working as far as Preston for a short time?

Through electric working to/from Preston started on 23 July 1973.

 

[308165]

The diversions via the S&C produced some oddities in the 1973/73 WTT, including:

1. Certain Saturday night services making a call at Garsdale (two years after it closed). I think to unload newspapers (which must have been moved by road to Oxenholme)
2. The operation of a daily Euston - Carlisle parcels via Lancaster, Carnforth, Hellifield (reverse) and Settle. I'm guessing this was route learning/retention.

 

[Falcon1200]

There was a Birmingham to Edinburgh daytime service, which north of Carlisle was run via the G&SW, reverse at Glasgow Central, and then via Shotts to Edinburgh. It would have been quicker from Carlisle to go via Newcastle.

Were there that many WCML/Edinburgh services back then, that would have justified retaining the Waverley route for them?

2 x Cl 50s over the Glasgow and South Western must have produced timings never, ever seen before.

One of my Scotland Control colleagues was given (long before my time of course) the task of travelling on the 2 x Class 50 services to assess their performance! This was IIRC when they ran via the WCML however, rather than the G&SW.

 

[hexagon789]

Were there that many WCML/Edinburgh services back then, that would have justified retaining the Waverley route for them?

Pre-electrification, there was one Birmingham to Glasgow & Edinburgh day train and two Manchester/Liverpool to Glasgow/Edinburgh. Plus some additionals in the summer.

Electrification quadrupled the Birmingham and doubled the Manchester/Liverpool services, each to 4 per day with one Birmingham starting back/running through to Bristol.