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Severe Alert from the UK Government

The exile

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Agreed but it definitely is an effective way to get a message across to the masses.

But, it does have unintended consequences for domestic violence victims among others.
And of course if the country weren’t populated by selfish idiots who are patently incapable of looking beyond their latest whim (and retailers putting grubby self interest first( it wouldn’t be necessary.

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There are some people who apparently resent being reminded that there are situations in which the collective good of the majority may override their individual wish to proceed in their own particular way.
Well said!
 
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AdamWW

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Yes, I'd noticed people saying they were muting the system. Their logic is amazing: because, in their expert opinion, it wasn't necessary for the system to have been used in this case, they will make sure they don't ever receive an emergency notification in the future.

It's not exactly an "expert opinion".

Government says we'll use this only when there is a "life threatening emergency"
Government then uses it for a public service announcement.

Then they start telling us how much better they would have done it, as if to justify their actions. For example, saying the message should only have gone to the areas with the greatest fire risk - as if no-one from outside those areas would ever travel into one of them, and therefore wouldn't need the warning.

I think that's not the best example of sensible alternatives.
Actually I'm not sure anyone did suggest it just going to the areas of greatest fire risk - I think that was a misinterpretation.
 

The exile

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It's not exactly an "expert opinion".

Government says we'll use this only when there is a "life threatening emergency"
Government then uses it for a public service announcement.
Lighting fires outside in these conditions is a potentially life-threatening emergency (unfortunately not usually directly to the selfish idiots who persist in doing it).
 

gg1

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Lighting fires outside in these conditions is a potentially life-threatening emergency (unfortunately not usually directly to the selfish idiots who persist in doing it).
"Potentially" being the key word here, in the same way speeding or crossing a level crossing when the gates are down are both potentially life threatening.

In the view of me, many other people on this thread, and indeed the government when the system was first introduced, the emergency alerts should be used when there is an actual and imminent threat, not to disseminate a message which effectively says "use some common sense, don't be a selfish idiot"

I'll repeat one of my earlier comments in the thread as I think it's especially pertinent here:

If the more proportional response of a press conference and a text message sent to all UK phones had been used instead, do you really think anyone who chose to disregard a message sent by that medium (on top of wildfires being a major news story for the past couple of weeks) would really be swayed to behave differently by yesterday's alert?
 

AdamWW

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Lighting fires outside in these conditions is a potentially life-threatening emergency (unfortunately not usually directly to the selfish idiots who persist in doing it).

Well yes.

And when a fire does start then it would be a good thingn to use the alert system for its intended use.

But the system is described as being for when there is an emergency, not for public service annoucements to remind people not to do things that could potentially cause one.

You could follow the same logic to suggest that they send one out this evening to remind people not to drink and drive.
Or maybe one to people who've been sent a cancer screening kit to remind them to use it.


If you get an alert you're supposed to stop whatever you're doing immediately to read it - if driving you should stop unless you can't, in which case you should put the radio on.
Did this warning really merit people doing that?
 

Yew

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Yes, I'd noticed people saying they were muting the system. Their logic is amazing: because, in their expert opinion, it wasn't necessary for the system to have been used in this case, they will make sure they don't ever receive an emergency notification in the future.
The chances are that when you were young, you may have heard of the cautionary tale of "The boy who cried wolf", using the emergency alert system for a public service announcement erodes trust in it.

There are some people who apparently resent being reminded that there are situations in which the collective good of the majority may override their individual wish to proceed in their own particular way.
There are some that seem incapable of understanding nuance and proportionality, instead preferring to smother themselves in sycophantic self-righteousness, attacking a straw man position of their own creation, as opposed to the actual points being made.
 

AdamWW

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There are some people who apparently resent being reminded that there are situations in which the collective good of the majority may override their individual wish to proceed in their own particular way.

And there are some - myself included - who do not think that abusing the alert system was in fact conducive to the collective good.
 

Yew

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Lighting fires outside in these conditions is a potentially life-threatening emergency (unfortunately not usually directly to the selfish idiots who persist in doing it).
Lighting any fire at any time is a potential life-threatening emergency. Driving a motor vehicle at any time is a potential life-threatening emergency. Walking down a flight of stairs is a potential life-threatening emergency.
 

AdamWW

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Lighting any fire at any time is a potential life-threatening emergency. Driving a motor vehicle at any time is a potential life-threatening emergency. Walking down a flight of stairs is a potential life-threatening emergency.

So is staying in bed.
 

gg1

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Tell that to the families in Stourbridge...
That perfectly highlights the failings of the emergency alert system. No alert was sent when it was actually needed, ie when the fire was approaching people's homes and there really was an imminent threat to life.
 

DarloRich

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I do take the point that it might not have been the best way to issue such a warning but I dont think it worth getting in a tizzy about. There is a bad situation and we don't need it getting worse. We are not talking about moorland fires. We are talking about homes & streets burning down.
"Please don't have a BBQ" is hardly a Severe alert.
Agreed - but "please don't have a BBQ because the country is a tinder box and any mistake or negligence on your part could create a vast inferno and our fire crews MAY not be able to respond to the next call for help because they are so busy dealing with existing wildfires" IS, at least in my book. I suspect fire crews in many areas are stretched to breaking point at the moment and don't need more to do

There are wildfires all over the country at present and not in places I would expect. I passed the remains of one near Peterborough yesterday right next to the ECML. I think it was out but I saw 3 fire engines on site. That's 3 x fire engines not ready to deal with emergencies in Peterbourgh. TBH I wouldn't have had Peterborough or Stoke or Stourbridge down on my wild fire bingo card!

As an aside I was up on the North Yorks moors this weekend and have never seen them look so dry. The colour is all wrong. Whole areas could go up in an instant it is so dry.
 

spyinthesky

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That perfectly highlights the failings of the emergency alert system. No alert was sent when it was actually needed, ie when the fire was approaching people's homes and there really was an imminent threat to life.
Tbf this was dealt with by the local incident teams, who to evacuate and when rather than evacuate an entire town. The phone alert was not needed in this case and all life preserved.

As for the latest alert, I do think that the system needs testing every once in a while which comes with advanced warnings. Perhaps they could have given a 24/48 hour warning in this case that a test will happen and what it will contain.

One day this alert may save lives and opting out could be an unwise choice but still a choice
 

AdamWW

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Tbf this was dealt with by the local incident teams, who to evacuate and when rather than evacuate an entire town. The phone alert was not needed in this case and all life preserved.

As for the latest alert, I do think that the system needs testing every once in a while which comes with advanced warnings. Perhaps they could have given a 24/48 hour warning in this case that a test will happen and what it will contain.

One day this alert may save lives and opting out could be an unwise choice but still a choice

It's not (just) a question of opting out.

It's whether people take them seriously in future.

I dropped what I was doing to read it immediately because I assumed the government wouldn't be abusing the service.
Next time I have no way of knowing if it's a real alert or not and I hope I will treat it seriously just in case.

But will everyone? I'm not so sure.

Tell that to the families in Stourbridge...

Can you elaborate on that? I don't follow what your argument is.
 

spyinthesky

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So you're saying the Fire and Rescue Service were wrong to request the government send out the alert then?
No.
There may be a lot of requests and ideas brought to COBRA meetings.
The idea from whoever was representing the Fire and Rescue Service thought that his staff may become overwhelmed with numerous such events occurring. this will put many members of the public at risk.
they were right to request it. The Government then have to decide if to use this method or something else. They chose the alert.
 

Egg Centric

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So you're saying the Fire and Rescue Service were wrong to request the government send out the alert then?

No more than the Home Office are wrong to be constantly asking for draconian immigration policies while the Foreign Office are wrong for constantly asking for visa policies to be loosened for the same countries. Departments (or whatever you would call Fire) need to press for what's in their interest.

It's up to Burnham (ultimately, although I understand in this case it may have Haigh) to exercise judgement and see the wider picture, that this is not just about wildfires but about the future use of and confidence in the alert system.

I am hoping that this is just inexperience and a decision he/she regrets and learns from.

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Meanwhile, on Amazon...

I've bought this as an experiment, as I'm curious to see what happens.

(Not to barbeque with any time soon to be clear!)

Well, it's turned up (link no longer works, but it was to a disposable barbecue of the type they were supposed to not be selling). Now to amuse myself arguing with them that they shouldn't have sold me it. Not that I have too much time on my hands or anything...
 
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Bikeman78

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It's not (just) that.

It's a question of how good an idea it is to send warnings out using a method which is only supposed to be used for imminent severe threats in a langauge which the vast majority of recipients cannot understand, leaving them trying to guess what the emergency is and what they should be doing about it.
Well yes that's true. But to be honest I thought what is this, rolled my eyes and hit the ok button. I guess that shows how little I trust the government.
 

AdamWW

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Well yes that's true. But to be honest I thought what is this, rolled my eyes and hit the ok button. I guess that shows how little I trust the government.

Fair enough. I would have been a bit less annoyed if it had turned up in a language I understood enough of.

No more than the Home Office are wrong to be constantly asking for draconian immigration policies while the Foreign Office are wrong for constantly asking for visa policies to be loosened for the same countries. Departments (or whatever you would call Fire) need to press for what's in their interest.

It's up to Burnham (ultimately, although I understand in this case it may have Haigh) to exercise judgement and see the wider picture, that this is not just about wildfires but about the future use of and confidence in the alert system.

Very much so. There will always be competing interests and the government needs to be able to balance them.
 

eoff

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I heard about this, but the reason I disabled this from the start is exactly this sort of nonsense. If they want to tell me I have an unexploded WW2 bomb 50 yards from my house perhaps, but not this rubbish.
It's the misuse of the system I expected from the start, so I turned it off.
I did the same, for the same reason.
But I did enable them again when I was in Japan.
 

Jimini

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They go off a couple of times a week in the US, particularly on the west coast. Here’s an example from last year (photo is of a missing person alert in LA):
 

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AlterEgo

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They go off a couple of times a week in the US, particularly on the west coast. Here’s an example from last year (photo is of a missing person alert in LA):
FWIW I think these are really useful and should be in place in the UK for missing persons etc. They are localised in the USA by county, I think. However almost nobody seems to have the alert siren turned on - I was on a bus when I got a silver alert and only one mine and other person's phone went off. If there was an option for these lower level alerts to come through silently but with mandatory text/vibration on screen I would support them more, but interrupting people's sleep or making them drop everything to run to their phone for an unprecedented "LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY USE ONLY" will only undermine the system we have.
 

Bletchleyite

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FWIW I think these are really useful and should be in place in the UK for missing persons etc. They are localised in the USA by county, I think. However almost nobody seems to have the alert siren turned on - I was on a bus when I got a silver alert and only one mine and other person's phone went off. If there was an option for these lower level alerts to come through silently but with mandatory text/vibration on screen I would support them more, but interrupting people's sleep or making them drop everything to run to their phone for an unprecedented "LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY USE ONLY" will only undermine the system we have.

I'd agree there needs to be a lower level that doesn't issue any sound but just shows on the phone and has to be cancelled off before doing anything else. The siren should only be for things where you need to act now e.g. "your house is about to flood".

Trouble is that it's all US Government spec and they love the pageantry. Look at their fire service vs. ours for instance.
 

Ediswan

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I have not been by my phone for any alerts. Does the sound start immediately at full volume, or ramp up over a few seconds ?
 

Jimini

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Immediate at full volume, it's quite shocking.

It did help that both Sky News and the Telegraph breaking news alerts beat the government alert by about 45 seconds, so I could warn everyone in the pub beer garden what was about to happen :lol:
 

brad465

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The severe alert going off did have some unintended positive news:


The government's surprise wildfire phone alarm led to the discovery of several illegally-held smartphones in Devon's jails.

The national alert on Friday of last week was designed to warn about the dangers of disposable barbecues as temperatures soared.

It came as a surprise to almost everyone in the country.

But few were as shocked as prisoners who had managed to smuggle mobiles behind bars. When the alarm sounded just after meal time it is understood that several cells began reverberating with the loud emergency noise.

This allowed staff to track down several hidden devices.

The prison service is remaining tight-lipped on reports that the alarm led to the seizure of a number of phones at HMP Exeter and HMP Channnings Wood. But has not denied the reports, saying only that mobile phones have no place in prisons.

DevonLive understands the alarm was blessing to prison governors. But it is also likely to be an embarrassment to authorities as it highlights how many phones are in jail.
 

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pokemonsuper9

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Okay, I will concede that the emergency alert system should be used both for immediate life threatening situations and to help the authorities locate prison phones. But only those two scenarios! :lol:
The most surprising thing is that their controband phones weren't isolated from every possible outside source of making them loud.
It's literally just a single setting they didn't do.
 

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