Off the road at Paddington

[Rab Smith]

Are we now so witless as a nation that we literally canoot fathom how to ensure that one single wheel that remains on the platform, does not move a single millimetre toward the edge, while people are in the trackbed?

That we could not even plan or rehearse such a thing as a drawing board exercise, to establish whether to go the next step and, eurgh, step down into the track, near a heavy object in an awkward position, and assess things like grip and positioning.

Is this even remotely the same country that birthed Brunel and Stephenson? Is this even the same industry? How many apprentices and workers did they actually kill or seriously injure as a part of their everyday business, the business of doing things never been done before?

I bet it wasn't nearly as many as died as a matter of ROUTINE down a coal mine to get the fuel to power their machinery, well into the 20th Century, even in the 70s and 80s. Why? Because engineers know what they are doing. It's a profession for a reason.

They do not see a heavy object in an awkward position as an inherently deadly thing. It's not going to explode, and it quite clearly found itself in a stable position all by itself, as tends to happen in this universe of matter and gravity.

They see it as a problem to be solved, using established techniques and cold hard maths and science. It's clearly physically liftable by humans, without causing injury. Everything else, such as footing and method, is plannable and actionable with control.

I despair I really do, especially since quite obviously we were never talking here about random people off the street, but people who we are told, "do actually know what they are doing".

Doing what, is the obvious question.

Are you for real? The amount of industrial accidents back in "the good old days" just proved that Health and Safety was a complete myth so profits could be maximised.
So, a track gang go down and lift the trolley back to the platform but in the process at least one gets a back injury that puts him out for 8 months with a possible claim for damages, who ultimately pays for that?
We have improved Health and Safety for a very good reason these days.

 

[PartyOperator]

Well... It's nice to see we have some spare capacity, at least on an otherwise uneventful Sunday. Hopefully they learn from this. Perhaps worth reviewing the risks and benefits of operating these rather bulky vehicles on platforms. Paddington always seems to have a lot of them squeezing through the crowds.

 

[londonteacher]

Well... It's nice to see we have some spare capacity, at least on an otherwise uneventful Sunday. Hopefully they learn from this. Perhaps worth reviewing the risks and benefits of operating these rather bulky vehicles on platforms. Paddington always seems to have a lot of them squeezing through the crowds.

Why do they need to review the use of these vehicles? They are helpful and play a key part in the accessibility arrangements at Paddington.

 

[stuartl]

The HSE guidelines for lifting give a maximum recommended weight of 25kg for a man lifting a stable load close to the body. So I would think that it would need more than a few men to lift a buggy.

 

[AilsaBus]

What non-disruptive method of immediate removal do you think should have been adopted?

Get a bunch of guys and drag the thing back onto the platform? Or they could somehow get a car/van etc with a bit of rope and drag it back on. But no doubt in this day of helf n softy wibble they'll take a month to do a risk assesment on how to look at it and then another week or two to get some guys to drag it back onto the platform anyway.

 

[bcarmicle]

they'll take a month to do a risk assesment on how to look at it and then another week or two to get some guys to drag it back onto the platform anyway

Except it was sorted last night, as stated earlier in the thread

 

[londonteacher]

Get a bunch of guys and drag the thing back onto the platform? Or they could somehow get a car/van etc with a bit of rope and drag it back on. But no doubt in this day of helf n softy wibble they'll take a month to do a risk assesment on how to look at it and then another week or two to get some guys to drag it back onto the platform anyway.

Seriously?

It was dealt with in an appropriate manner. The way it was handled I suspect caused minimal damage to all involved pieces of equipment and was also having no impact on services.

 

[Magrar]

If you are so against this country then nothing is stopping you from staying here. I wouldn’t stay somewhere if I was as unhappy as your post suggests.

Just as there's nothing stopping the likes of you boosting UK productivity and ensuring young people have a bright future here.

Yet here we are.

Wanna have a guess how many man hours I alone, one person, has spent in the same damn briefings telling me the same damn things about the same damn law? It is Kafkaesque. It is also the law. But even if it wasn't, these mindless HR drones would do it anyway. I am not a person to them. My skills and experience are irrelevant. I am a box to be ticked. No matter how many times.

That's the country you defend. Believe me, I would gladly dump it in your lap and leave you to your sorry fate, if I had been lucky enough to have been born when people with actual talent for things like engineering and problem solving in general, could actually make enough money here that emmigration was viable.

I'm stuck here with you, and all the other people who apparently don't even know basic physics, or what a rope is, let alone a block and tacke. This country, where such things were invented and put to use for centuries, in record breaking productivity and careers for millions. Now reduced to this.

We all literally laughed, as we all recongised that while there may indeed be a blameless reason for a buggy ending up on the track, there will always be someone to blame for why it got left there like it was normal.

The very idea that this wasn't urgent, is a red herring. We all know it would have taken all day even if the platform was needed, such is the tight grip of Health and Safety on even pretty damn simple jobs, should anyone even utter the word, lift.

My dad could have solved this problem with ease. And all he had was a sliderule, and a solid background in engineering, practical and theory. And while even back then, he might have struggled, even with his commanding and yet warm nature to persuade the railway workers to actually work, he had no shortage of able bodied enthusiastic mates who never once let him down.

Not one of them ever sustained a workplace injury of any kind, much less early retirement. And we aren't talking soft jobs like track crew. We're talking deep sea divers, oil rig workers, prison officers, crane operators.

They lived full and active lives, doing terribly dangerous things in their spare time too, like rafting and banger racing. Again, not a serious injury among them, ever. Not one was ever out of work, much less claiming benefits.

One of them was most likely the last ever person to join the police with grey hair and only a hard hat and baton to protect themselves. You don't even need to ask if he retired with disintction, or as a useless sack of hard work avoiding crap, do you?

This is what real training does. Not mindless HR wonkery.

The last generation to have actually earned their pensions, I would say. I won't even get one in all likelihood.

 

[sprunt]

I saw a luggage trolley go over the edge of the platform at Zurich HB (within the last five years I think). No drama, no fuss, the workmen using it just hopped down to track level and picked it back up. All over in ten minutes.
Admittedly, probably lighter than this one and a lower platform.

So a significantly different situation was handled in a different way? That's useful to know, thanks.

Or they could somehow get a car/van etc with a bit of rope and drag it back on.

Ah yes, nothing says "non-disruptive" like driving a car along a platform in an open railway station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2026 ==

Just as there's nothing stopping the likes of you boosting UK productivity and ensuring young people have a bright future here.

Yet here we are.

Wanna have a guess how many man hours I alone, one person, has spent in the same damn briefings telling me the same damn things about the same damn law? It is Kafkaesque. It is also the law. But even if it wasn't, these mindless HR drones would do it anyway. I am not a person to them. My skills and experience are irrelevant. I am a box to be ticked. No matter how many times.

That's the country you defend. Believe me, I would gladly dump it in your lap and leave you to your sorry fate, if I had been lucky enough to have been born when people with actual talent for things like engineering and problem solving in general, could actually make enough money here that emmigration was viable.

I'm stuck here with you, and all the other people who apparently don't even know basic physics, or what a rope is, let alone a block and tacke. This country, where such things were invented and put to use for centuries, in record breaking productivity and careers for millions. Now reduced to this.

We all literally laughed, as we all recongised that while there may indeed be a blameless reason for a buggy ending up on the track, there will always be someone to blame for why it got left there like it was normal.

The very idea that this wasn't urgent, is a red herring. We all know it would have taken all day even if the platform was needed, such is the tight grip of Health and Safety on even pretty damn simple jobs, should anyone even utter the word, lift.

My dad could have solved this problem with ease. And all he had was a sliderule, and a solid background in engineering, practical and theory. And while even back then, he might have struggled, even with his commanding and yet warm nature to persuade the railway workers to actually work, he had no shortage of able bodied enthusiastic mates who never once let him down.

Not one of them ever sustained a workplace injury of any kind, much less early retirement. And we aren't talking soft jobs like track crew. We're talking deep sea divers, oil rig workers, prison officers, crane operators.

They lived full and active lives, doing terribly dangerous things in their spare time too, like rafting and banger racing. Again, not a serious injury among them, ever. Not one was ever out of work, much less claiming benefits.

One of them was most likely the last ever person to join the police with grey hair and only a hard hat and baton to protect themselves. You don't even need to ask if he retired with disintction, or as a useless sack of hard work avoiding crap, do you?

This is what real training does. Not mindless HR wonkery.

The last generation to have actually earned their pensions, I would say. I won't even get one in all likelihood.

That's a lot of words to say nothing of any substance at all.

 

[londonteacher]

Just as there's nothing stopping the likes of you boosting UK productivity and ensuring young people have a bright future here.

I mean that is quite literally my job. I am a teacher. My job is ensure that young people do indeed have a bright future.

Wanna have a guess how many man hours I alone, one person, has spent in the same damn briefings telling me the same damn things about the same damn law? It is Kafkaesque. It is also the law. But even if it wasn't, these mindless HR drones would do it anyway. I am not a person to them. My skills and experience are irrelevant. I am a box to be ticked. No matter how many times.

I have also been through hours of repetitive training. It is part of my job. Training, however repetitive, is there to protect all parties involved.

I'm stuck here with you, and all the other people who apparently don't even know basic physics, or what a rope is, let alone a block and tacke. This country, where such things were invented and put to use for centuries, in record breaking productivity and careers for millions. Now reduced to this.

How patronising. I do know basic physics, I would also have ideas for how the buggy could have been recovered quicker. But, ultimately it is neither here or there. There was a process, it was followed and the issue was resolved.

The very idea that this wasn't urgent, is a red herring. We all know it would have taken all day even if the platform was needed, such is the tight grip of Health and Safety on even pretty damn simple jobs, should anyone even utter the word, lift.

It wasn’t urgent. Service was not affected. It was resolved at a quieter time. They may have had to turn off the power which would have caused an issue for the wider station.

My dad could have solved this problem with ease. And all he had was a sliderule, and a solid background in engineering, practical and theory. And while even back then, he might have struggled, even with his commanding and yet warm nature to persuade the railway workers to actually work, he had no shortage of able bodied enthusiastic mates who never once let him down.

Not one of them ever sustained a workplace injury of any kind, much less early retirement. And we aren't talking soft jobs like track crew. We're talking deep sea divers, oil rig workers, prison officers, crane operators.

They lived full and active lives, doing terribly dangerous things in their spare time too, like rafting and banger racing. Again, not a serious injury among them, ever. Not one was ever out of work, much less claiming benefits.

One of them was most likely the last ever person to join the police with grey hair and only a hard hat and baton to protect themselves. You don't even need to ask if he retired with disintction, or as a useless sack of hard work avoiding crap, do you?

Good for them. Things have moved on and whilst there maybe an argument as to whether the change is positive or not this is not the thread for that.

The last generation to have actually earned their pensions, I would say. I won't even get one in all likelihood

What utter nonsense? So everyone who works currently does not deserve their pensions. What a ludicrous thing to say?

I really hope that you have someone to talk to and discuss your hatred for our country and resolve it sufficiently where you can feel proud.

My DMs are open if you want to chat, I am a good listening ear.

 

[sh24]

The decline in the level and severity of industrial accidents from the 70's onwards shows that people walking around happily today would have been injured or killed in the past.

 

[Taunton]

Are you for real? The amount of industrial accidents back in "the good old days" just proved that Health and Safety was a complete myth so profits could be maximised.
So, a track gang go down and lift the trolley back to the platform but in the process at least one gets a back injury that puts him out for 8 months with a possible claim for damages, who ultimately pays for that?
We have improved Health and Safety for a very good reason these days.

Just to offer a different perspective from those "good old days"

- I can never recall an industrial accident happening in my area of view.
- Track gangs were completely proficient in manipulating 60ft rails, which weigh about a ton each, and many of them seemed lifetime staff at doing so.

 

[Haywain]

Just to offer a different perspective from those "good old days"

- I can never recall an industrial accident happening in my area of view.
- Track gangs were completely proficient in manipulating 60ft rails, which weigh about a ton each, and many of them seemed lifetime staff at doing so.

You can probably fairly easily find statistics that show just how many died in the course of their work each year.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The decline in the level and severity of industrial accidents from the 70's onwards shows that people walking around happily today would have been injured or killed in the past.

Out of interest and with no axe to grind; is that a reduction in the rate of casualties - i.e., injured per, say, thousand employees; or absolute? And is there any break-down by industry?
Any reduction in industrial accidents from the 1970s to now would correlate with the considerable reduction of employment in heavy manufacturing and extractive industries combines with an increase in employment levels in business services and finance over the same period but I realise that correlation doe not mean causation.
One might expect that the consequences of a mishap to a worker in a steelworks might be more severe than to one in a call centre, for example.

 

[Darandio]

- Track gangs were completely proficient in manipulating 60ft rails, which weigh about a ton each, and many of them seemed lifetime staff at doing so.

Indeed, my dad was one of those lifetime staff, 43 years. 15 miles a day of uneven walking Ferryhill to Durham and back on his patch, lifted god knows how many 60ft rails with the other lads especially on a Saturday night shift because it didn't pay enough Monday to Friday. In the last 8 years before he died he got two new hips and two new knees. We can call them good old days as much as we want, let's not pretend it was all rosy.

 

[Haywain]

Out of interest and with no axe to grind; is that a reduction in the rate of casualties - i.e., injured per, say, thousand employees; or absolute? And is there any break-down by industry?
Any reduction in industrial accidents from the 1970s to now would correlate with the considerable reduction of employment in heavy manufacturing and extractive industries combines with an increase in employment levels in business services and finance over the same period but I realise that correlation doe not mean causation.

OK, take construction as an example: in the early 1970s there were around 200 deaths per year, now it's down to around 35. I can't find the numbers for railways as easily as I expected but I know that in the 1960s and 1970s fatal rail accidents were pretty common; compared with how rare they are now - it was a major shock that a driver died a few weeks ago.

 

[Clarence Yard]

This is turning into a Monty Python sketch.

I have been involved in recovering wheeled equipment from the tracks at KX, in the good old days when H&S never came into it. The odd station barrow, the odd brute, a few self help luggage trolleys (usually thrown over deliberately) no problem in getting them up but anything battery equipped, no chance of manhandling those.

The Reliance Mercury tractors were a dead weight, even if we got the batteries off so it was call out the FP breakdown gang but you didn’t necessarily need to lift them up with the crane - it all depended at what angle they were lying - upside down was the worst to deal with because that usually meant battery acid was everywhere. You couldn’t crane from the platform - they were too hollow to take a lift. But get it up to a decent angle with jacks & packing, or the MFD and then attach a line, you could get a pull back on.

It wasn’t always driver error that put them on the tracks. Even with the keys out the dodgy electronics on RM tractors could make them go on their own. I have personally stopped them on platform 8 by steering them away from trouble! The modern “womble carts”, as I have heard them called, are very long and I can easily see if someone backed up and slightly misjudged it, how easy it is to put one over.

These days recovering them can wait till a suitable moment when the equipment can get there and in this case at Paddington, it looks as if this was done at a suitable time.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Luxury, we worked 25 hours a day down t' pit, 8 days a week...

This is turning into a very bizarre thread even for the most ardent traditionalists

 

[Rab Smith]

Whether you like it or not, Health and Safety at work is one of the most important things ever to have been introduced into the workplace. It ensures people who go to work go home at night. All this tosh about how we "just got on with things back in the day" is an absolutely crazy way of thinking. How many bosses sitting in offices were seriously injured or killed back in the day?

 

[Archvile]

We've become undeniably safer at the doubtless expense of accountability.

Is a Darwinian death as strong a statistic as a faultless death? Unpopular opinion, but I'd argue not.

 

[Falcon1200]

They see it as a problem to be solved

The problem was solved! Without damage, disruption, or most importantly, injury or worse.

But no doubt in this day of helf n softy wibble they'll take a month to do a risk assesment on how to look at it and then another week or two to get some guys to drag it back onto the platform anyway.

The vehicle has been removed, and it did not take a month.

My dad could have solved this problem with ease.

Being in Reading, you could easily have gone to Paddington, told them where they were going wrong, and offered to help lift the vehicle, surely?

I can never recall an industrial accident happening in my area of view.

Whereas I have been on duty (in Control) on several occasions when railway staff were injured or killed on duty. Thankfully much rarer in recent times.

 

[sh24]

Out of interest and with no axe to grind; is that a reduction in the rate of casualties - i.e., injured per, say, thousand employees; or absolute? And is there any break-down by industry?
Any reduction in industrial accidents from the 1970s to now would correlate with the considerable reduction of employment in heavy manufacturing and extractive industries combines with an increase in employment levels in business services and finance over the same period but I realise that correlation doe not mean causation.
One might expect that the consequences of a mishap to a worker in a steelworks might be more severe than to one in a call centre, for example.

The data I saw was both absolute and per capita. It was broken-down by industry sector and the decreases were across the board in everything from heavy engineering to retail and healthcare. It was incredibly striking!

H&S, for sure, gets abused and sometimes the implementation is far too black and white. But some of the comments above suggesting nothing ever went wrong in the old days are so wrong as to be utterly irresponsible.

 

[saismee]

I'm stuck here with you, and all the other people who apparently don't even know basic physics, or what a rope is, let alone a block and tacke.

let's hope they don't try to hang a block and tackle from the OLE...

 

[Harpo]

We've become undeniably safer at the doubtless expense of accountability.

Increased accountability drives increased safety. The buck no longer stops with the hapless individual working beyond their competence.

Is a Darwinian death as strong a statistic as a faultless death?

I’ve never known any demarcation of accidental deaths. Nor can I think of any ‘faultless’ accidental deaths in industry.

 

[NickBucks]

We really need to know how this was resolved to prove the armchair warriors from either side of the argument right or wrong and move on.

 

[josh-j]

And in all of this, everyone has forgotten poor Robert. I hope he makes a full recovery.

 

[Haywain]

We really need to know how this was resolved to prove the armchair warriors from either side of the argument right or wrong and move on.

It was resolved by removing the obstruction from the tracks overnight. I doubt that proves anything to anyone.

 

[londonteacher]

It was resolved by removing the obstruction from the tracks overnight. I doubt that proves anything to anyone.

Absolutely this. It was resolved in a way that led to no inconvenience to the public and was resolved in a timely manner.

An unfortunate, but harmless, accident that was dealt with by professionals.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think this is as good a place as any to bring this thread to a close. Thanks all.