London Buses Discussion

[ukiki323]

It now uses Enviro200s a fair bit, yes. The W9 uses them exclusively. Often old ones they've pulled out of god knows where but they're so much better than the Streetlite WFs. A few times a week there's also an Enviro200 EV running, though this has been going on for ages and the route still hasn't been converted to electric operation - I'm guessing a lack of facilities at the relevant garage? Or perhaps even range - I can't remember how long the 358 is, but with only 4-5 buses (compared to the 358) needed for the full service I'd imagine a charging station might be need at either end.

The 456 was retained with existing buses in March this year, the electrics would be strays from Northumberland Park garage's sizable EV fleet so unfortunately you'll probably have a few years to wait, I think 2029 for the Streetlites to be replaced.

EV range is not really a big thing anymore, the longest route in London is in the process of converting so no doubt the 456 will be just fine when the time comes. The 358 was supposed to be a trial of pantograph tech, it was awarded in 2019/2020 back when EV range was poorer but it ridiculously took 4 years for the buses to actually enter service. They have a smaller battery pack also so they rely on the chargers at either end, however in those 4-5 years technology advanced enough that made the pantographs redundant, EVs now could handle the 358

 

[LUYMun]

An internal First newsletter has announced that First Bus won the tender for routes SL15 (Clapham Junction-Eltham) and 328 (Golders Green-Chelsea) using new single and double deck electric buses respectively and retaining route 290 (Staines-Twickenham) using new and existing single deck electric vehicles. All are on 7 year contracts commencing next year excepting the SL15 on an unconfirmed date.

 

[MotCO]

According to LOTS www.lots.org.uk
LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes:

80 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
93 (24hr) re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 25) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
151 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks. (PVR 14) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.
154 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
163 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 11) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
164 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 14) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
470 re-awarded to London General using existing diesel single-decks (PVR 4) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.

The unusual one is the 151 which, despite being with electric vehicles, is only for 3 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2026 ==

An internal First newsletter has announced that First Bus won the tender for routes SL15 (Clapham Junction-Eltham) and 328 (Golders Green-Chelsea) using new single and double deck electric buses respectively and retaining route 290 (Staines-Twickenham) using new and existing single deck electric vehicles. All are on 7 year contracts commencing next year excepting the SL15 on an unconfirmed date.

Would the SL15 be operated from Wandsworth (Tootbus) depot?

 

[DesDobramento]

An internal First newsletter has announced that First Bus won the tender for routes SL15 (Clapham Junction-Eltham) and 328 (Golders Green-Chelsea) using new single and double deck electric buses respectively and retaining route 290 (Staines-Twickenham) using new and existing single deck electric vehicles. All are on 7 year contracts commencing next year excepting the SL15 on an unconfirmed date.

That takes First Bus well away from any area that it currently serves! The route is presumably intended to operate via Thurlow Park Road, part of the South Circular Road east of Tulse Hill, where there is an infamous low bridge - and thus require the use of single-deckers?

 

[Mark L]

According to LOTS www.lots.org.uk
LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes:

80 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
93 (24hr) re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 25) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
151 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks. (PVR 14) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.
154 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
163 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 11) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
164 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 14) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
470 re-awarded to London General using existing diesel single-decks (PVR 4) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.

The unusual one is the 151 which, despite being with electric vehicles, is only for 3 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2026 ==


Would the SL15 be operated from Wandsworth (Tootbus) depot?

The 151 is shown as a seven year contract in the notification from TfL.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2026 ==

According to LOTS www.lots.org.uk
LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes:

80 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
93 (24hr) re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 25) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
151 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks. (PVR 14) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.
154 re-awarded to London General using existing electric double-decks (PVR 15) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
163 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 11) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
164 re-awarded to London General using existing electric single-decks (PVR 14) for 7 years starting on 28/11/2026.
470 re-awarded to London General using existing diesel single-decks (PVR 4) for 3 years starting on 28/11/2026.

The unusual one is the 151 which, despite being with electric vehicles, is only for 3 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2026 ==


Would the SL15 be operated from Wandsworth (Tootbus) depot?

Yes.

 

[PGAT]

Would the SL15 be operated from Wandsworth (Tootbus) depot?

Indeed. Likewise with the 28 which was announced last month as a First win from Metroline.

 

[Silent]

An internal First newsletter has announced that First Bus won the tender for routes SL15 (Clapham Junction-Eltham) and 328 (Golders Green-Chelsea) using new single and double deck electric buses respectively and retaining route 290 (Staines-Twickenham) using new and existing single deck electric vehicles. All are on 7 year contracts commencing next year excepting the SL15 on an unconfirmed date.

So 328 is going back to the 90's/early 00's with single deck buses. I don't use the route much though.

 

[Mark L]

So 328 is going back to the 90's/early 00's with single deck buses. I don't use the route much though.

No - it’s getting new battery-electric double deckers.

 

[Silent]

No - it’s getting new battery-electric double deckers.

I must have misread because I assume the single decks are for SL15 re reading it.

 

[Mark L]

I must have misread because I assume the single decks are for SL15 re reading it.

Yes they are.

 

[bb21]

Have I missed it or was there no consultation about the changes to 91/123/232 this weekend? I haven't kept an eye on this thread lately and only realised these were changing after reading a social media post earlier last week.

 

[Mark L]

Have I missed it or was there no consultation about the changes to 91/123/232 this weekend? I haven't kept an eye on this thread lately and only realised these were changing after reading a social media post earlier last week.

There was - it took place in late 2023.

See https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands

 

[bb21]

There was - it took place in late 2023.

See https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands

Thanks. I know some of the Croydon changes are still waiting to happen but clearly forgot about this one.

 

[Mark L]

Thanks. I know some of the Croydon changes are still waiting to happen but clearly forgot about this one.

I think the outstanding Croydon changes (from memory invoking the 407 and new route 443) have been shelved for now.

 

[PGAT]

I think the outstanding Croydon changes (from memory invoking the 407 and new route 443) have been shelved for now.

Ultimately the arrival of the SL5 and double frequency of the SL7 have eaten away spare standing space in Croydon. The last resort is to stand at Hogarth Crescent but there are no toilet facilities so in the end the split didn’t represent good value for money.

 

[Silent]

I notice the route 18 seems to be using some Gemini 2 hybrids recently. I’m just curious why as it’s allocation is meant to just be bd11’s I thought.

 

[Mark L]

I notice the route 18 seems to be using some Gemini 2 hybrids recently. I’m just curious why as it’s allocation is meant to just be bd11’s I thought.

It’s scheduled for BD11s as is the 31. I can only think that more are off the road than normal for whatever reason - they don’t seem to be on any other routes from X.

 

[DaveLondon]

I notice the route 18 seems to be using some Gemini 2 hybrids recently. I’m just curious why as it’s allocation is meant to just be bd11’s I thought.

There are a number of temporary alterations to types on First routes owing to the withdrawal of the Metrodeckers and need to cover the routes with other types drafted in and reinstated.

 

[Mark L]

There are a number of temporary alterations to types on First routes owing to the withdrawal of the Metrodeckers and need to cover the routes with other types drafted in and reinstated.

As far as the 18 goes I think the OP’s comment was driven by the apparent disappearance of some of the BYDs that form the routes normal allocation. All else being equal this would appear unconnected to the (temporary?) loss of the Metrodeckers.

 

[Thirteen]

I assume with the 28 and 328, it'll be BD11s that take over that route.

 

[Snow1964]

TfL have now published the annual bus fleet audit (as at 31 March 2026)

Lots of tables, some showing summary numbers for last few years

fleet grew 185 buses in a year
929 buses added in 2025 (highest since 2017), all were electric

As data is in tables, not practical to quote it

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/31-march-2026-bus-fleet-audit.pdf

For anyone interested in lots more info on each of the 8982 buses there is a hefty spreadsheet on this link

Bus fleet data & audits

An audit of the LBSL contracted fleet is carried out once a year. The data provides the fleet size, respective percentage of the fleet and average age by operator

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Simon75]

TfL have now published the annual bus fleet audit (as at 31 March 2026)

Lots of tables, some showing summary numbers for last few years

fleet grew 185 buses in a year
929 buses added in 2025 (highest since 2017), all were electric

As data is in tables, not practical to quote it

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/31-march-2026-bus-fleet-audit.pdf

For anyone interested in lots more info on each of the 8982 buses there is a hefty spreadsheet on this link

Bus fleet data & audits

An audit of the LBSL contracted fleet is carried out once a year. The data provides the fleet size, respective percentage of the fleet and average age by operator

tfl.gov.uk

What's the highest amount of buses London has had ?

 

[Snow1964]

What's the highest amount of buses London has had ?

Not sure of exact max because it might be just a day or two after some new ones pushing number up, but before one got withdrawn.

But back when these audits were published quarterly, the 31 March 2017 fleet was 9616 buses (638 higher than now). Thats why it seems strange that they have a shortage of I-bus equipment unless 600+ sets are sitting broken in a cupboard

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-audit-31-march-2017-final.pdf

What I find interesting is that this report showed 1066 buses from 2016, but latest has only 998 from 2016, so have already lost 68 buses that are 10 years old, but a few buses from 2009 (now about 17 years old) survive

 

[londonteacher]

What I find interesting is that this report showed 1066 buses from 2016, but latest has only 998 from 2016, so have already lost 68 buses that are 10 years old, but a few buses from 2009 (now about 17 years old) survive

That’s because companies have transferred buses to their other operating companies. For example, Go Ahead transferred 19 to Manchester after the loss of a route.

 

[Deerfold]

Snow1984 said:

Thats why it seems strange that they have a shortage of I-bus equipment unless 600+ sets are sitting broken in a cupboard

That’s because companies have transferred buses to their other operating companies. For example, Go Ahead transferred 19 to Manchester after the loss of a route.

London bus companies are supposed to notify TfL before doing that so the equipment can be removed.
They don't always. I did know someone who's job involved chasing up those transferred buses to retrieve the kit and know that there are a lot fewer people allocated to Countdown and iBus than there used to be.

 

[Thirteen]

Sharon Graham, General Secretary of Unite was interviewed on ITV London as they've been investigating driver's working conditions and she has not ruled out balloting drivers across all operators on strike action which would be quite a bold move as I don't think there has ever been strike action like that but risky since having no buses at all affects not only the London economy but the general public.

 

[traji00]

…I don't think there has ever been strike action like that but risky since having no buses at all affects not only the London economy but the general public.

There was a city wide strike in early 2015 if I recall.

 

[J-2739]

Is it just me, or has the 343 been permanently rerouted to Brockley? I've not seen it go to New Cross in a long time, and I am struggling to find information on the internet.

 

[Deerfold]

There was a city wide strike in early 2015 if I recall.

There were several one day strikes. I wrote a program that used ibus data to predict what percentage of each route was in service. It turned out to be very accurate for most routes but they chose to give out that routes were in one of the categories "unaffected, running over 80% of service" and "running less than 80% of service". Given I could identify routes running less than 20% of service, I assume they did this to reduce bad publicity.

 

[busesrusuk]

The last one I recall was the strike for pay parity across London. It was mostly a good fun day having to chase the strikers out of my office who decided they wanted free teas and coffees and a sit down inside out of the rain. The day was mostly good humoured although there was a bit of nastiness early in the day when there was some issue with a minority of strikers playing silly buggers where the police got involved. But once the day got going the strikers set up a sound system and a decent barbecue in Warner Road outside my office window. There was a bit of competition between the sound systems as abellio had one set up outside Walworth as well. All good until the early evening when the neighbours started complaining . I'm trying to remember when that was- it may have been 2015 but time flies....