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Copenhagen 'tourist tax' on non-EU card payments

zero

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I'm not particularly opposed to allowing merchants to pass on (some of) the transaction fees since requiring no fees at all be passed to the consumer means Visa/Mastercard get to basically take whatever they want from the retailer.
As mentioned, interchange fees are capped in the EU and UK, and the amount skimmed off by Visa and Mastercard comes out of this, so it's not the case that V/MC can take however much they want.

The interchange fee is what the merchant's bank pays the customer's bank. But this is only part of the total fee that banks charge merchants to accept cards, and banks can charge merchants whatever they want.

When merchants are not permitted to pass on fees, they would be incentivised to choose banks which charge lower fees. Whereas in somewhere like Australia where merchants can pass on fees (particularly when the fees are automatically added by the equipment and the merchant doesn't really notice them at all), merchants would be more inclined to choose payment processors that are easy to work with, etc.

So in theory, not allowing merchants to charge fees should lead to banks lowering their fees due to competition. However in practice it seems that at least for small/medium businesses card fees in the UK/Europe and Australia remain broadly the same at around 1-2%, even though the proportion that goes towards interchange (and thus Visa/MC) is lower in Europe.

I'm not sure why this should only be applied to foreign cards though - do card issuers charge retailers extra for these, as well as making money from currency conversion? I understand why the EU wouldn't let them charge another EU citizen more than a Danish citizen, but if the fees are such a problem for the retailers they they could legally surcharge everyone the same.

Well it's not about citizenship since Danish and other EU citizens would still face this charge if they have cards issued outside the EEA, and non-citizens with cards issued in the EEA wouldn't.

But merchants do get charged more when a customer uses a foreign-issued card, and even domestic cards defined as "premium" can attract higher charges.
 
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blimmo

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When merchants are not permitted to pass on fees, they would be incentivised to choose banks which charge lower fees. Whereas in somewhere like Australia where merchants can pass on fees (particularly when the fees are automatically added by the equipment and the merchant doesn't really notice them at all), merchants would be more inclined to choose payment processors that are easy to work with, etc.
When they can pass on the fees surely they are still incentivised to choose a payment processor that offers lower fees since that will make their effective prices lower?
 

zero

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When they can pass on the fees surely they are still incentivised to choose a payment processor that offers lower fees since that will make their effective prices lower?
In the case of Denmark (and your experience in Leipzig) the merchant probably doesn't care since the fee only affects a minority of customers, most of whom are unlikely to return.

In the case of Australia, most merchants which pass on card fees still accept cash, or in some cases bank transfer, so that is the effective price. In practice, the majority choose to pay by card anyway, even when there is only a vague sticker on the machine saying "surcharge may apply".

Where the surcharge amount is disclosed at the cashier, a few people probably do mentally calculate whether the points/cashback on their card make it worth paying the extra fee.
 

Cloud Strife

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Why? If the retailer wants to encourage a particular method of payment (perhaps because the fees are too much for them) I think they should be allowed to pass on some or all of their fees to the consumer.

The thing is: card fees are never that simple. There are constant promotions on card/instant payments, and it's the norm in PL for example for the terminal owners to offer 2 years free. So, it would simply lead to widespread abuse, because people wouldn't be aware of what the shop is actually being charged. Also, cash is more expensive to handle than cards, so it would be a distortion of the market.

So in theory, not allowing merchants to charge fees should lead to banks lowering their fees due to competition. However in practice it seems that at least for small/medium businesses card fees in the UK/Europe and Australia remain broadly the same at around 1-2%, even though the proportion that goes towards interchange (and thus Visa/MC) is lower in Europe.

Here in Poland, the norm is around 0.6% for EEA cards and around 1.5% for non-EEA cards. It does depend, as there's a lot of competition in this space and it's normal to get 1 or even 2 years free of fees if you take a terminal from a particular supplier. But yes, while interchange fees have been heavily capped for cardholder present transactions, the fees charged by the payment processors are still far too high compared to the actual costs incurred by them. It's an example where the EU needs to regulate further: there's simply no reason for these fees to be higher than 0.5% to the merchants.
 

mad_rich

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Hmm. I'll be in Copenhagen in a couple of weeks. I wonder if preloading my Revolut card with a DKK balance will avoid the fee?

Or as a non-EU card, it'll just get hit anyway.
Well I can report that holding funds in DKK on Revolut doesn’t avoid the fee. So I guess it’s the card number, not the currency conversion, that triggers it.

I queried it at the till in a cafe, and the cashier was pretty short with me. “It’s less than 1kr. Just press accept”

I got zero extra fees in Odense* yesterday, but charged on 3 out of 5 transactions in Copenhagen. So it’s definitely a choice by the merchant/ merchant’s bank in how they want to treat foreigners.

-

* Good railway museum next to the station, with a nice little exhibition on Interrail.
 

NCT

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I’ve experienced this card surcharge in not only Copenhagen but Helsinki too.
 

riceuten

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Well I can report that holding funds in DKK on Revolut doesn’t avoid the fee. So I guess it’s the card number, not the currency conversion, that triggers it.

I queried it at the till in a cafe, and the cashier was pretty short with me. “It’s less than 1kr. Just press accept”

I got zero extra fees in Odense* yesterday, but charged on 3 out of 5 transactions in Copenhagen. So it’s definitely a choice by the merchant/ merchant’s bank in how they want to treat foreigners.

-

* Good railway museum next to the station, with a nice little exhibition on Interrail.
I have a couple of EU issued debit cards (Bunq from the Netherlands, ME Direct from Malta), I wonder if I could sidestep the fees by using these?
 

mad_rich

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The terminal shows the new price after you tap/insert your card, and requires you to confirm you're happy (bearing in mind the only other option is to entirely cancel the transaction!) before processing the payment with the updated amount.
I’m back in Denmark, and for the first time I’ve had a transaction where I wasn’t asked to confirm the increased amount

My coffee was 25kr, the terminal said 25kr, so I tapped and walked away.

Later, checking my transactions, I see I’ve been charged 25.49. (I guess the transaction was still in process after I walked away, and the barista accepted the increased amount on my behalf?).

Now it’s only 6p, some might say. But you bet I’m going to dispute this transaction with my card provider, and I hope it knocks the merchant’s score down a bit. It will certainly cost the industry more than 6p.
 

riceuten

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Definitely non-EU issued - I have a couple of cards that allow you to carry a DKK balance (Wise, Revolut) though the issuing country is the most important.
 

speedy1

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Now it’s only 6p, some might say. But you bet I’m going to dispute this transaction with my card provider, and I hope it knocks the merchant’s score down a bit. It will certainly cost the industry more than 6p.
Too right! It's invariably a slippery slope with this kind of stuff

If 100 customers a day figured out a way to short-change a company 6p, you bet they would be crying fraud/theft/whatever within days
 

PeterC

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I can't comment from experience but a few seconds with Google found a number of discussions on various sites, some going back 8 years so this doesn't seem to be new. Are people experiencing this with debit cards or just credit cards?
 

Mike395

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I can't comment from experience but a few seconds with Google found a number of discussions on various sites, some going back 8 years so this doesn't seem to be new. Are people experiencing this with debit cards or just credit cards?
It's been the case certainly throughout the 3 years or so I've been going a couple of times a year, but does seem to be spreading. Both debit and credit cards are affected, the only thing that decides if the surcharge is applied is the country of issue.
 

mad_rich

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I've just had the same in Berlin. I've never seen it happen in Germany before, or anywhere else in Europe.

€0.43 on a €17 payment, which required me to accept the larger transaction and tap my card again.

The waitress apologised (unprompted!) and said it's for non-EU cards.
 

speedy1

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Same. Not sure about Germany but if that's the first time you are presented with the cost it's probably an offer at that stage not a debt (assuming you hadn't consumed an item eg a meal). And where consuming before paying is expected surely the law would demand that these charges are clearly stated?

You can easily see how to protest this charge at eg takeaway places that prepare your item and only tell you the extra charge at the end... ;)

Sigh, just as we had mostly got rid of the DCC scam from years ago
 

mad_rich

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Sadly I'd already eaten, and they didn't accept cash. (Unheard of in Germany!)

I was tempted to kick up a fuss, but the waitress was nice and the food was good, and I didn't want to spoil my day over 43 cents.

In Denmark I did indeed walk away a couple of times when presented with the charge. Other times I just accepted it. (Depending on how much I wanted that coffee/ beer!)

What was strange in Denmark, was that almost every merchant claimed not to know what was happening, and to never have seen it before. I found that very hard to believe, given how many non-EU tourists it gets.
 

rvdborgt

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I was tempted to kick up a fuss, but the waitress was nice and the food was good, and I didn't want to spoil my day over 43 cents.
You could ask though where they mention the extra charge. They may be obliged to do that.
What was strange in Denmark, was that almost every merchant claimed not to know what was happening, and to never have seen it before. I found that very hard to believe, given how many non-EU tourists it gets.
... and how it seems to be almost exclusive to Copenhagen. It's hard to imagine that the payment provider decides on its own where the charge applies.
 

AM9

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Okay, then make the price tag reflect the total, and give a discount for certain types of payment if you want to encourage those.
Don't add an extra charge right at the very last minute in a not very transparent way.
Well, one way to punish the retailer is to withdraw from the transaction, (depending on how important the purchase is), - the longer it has taken to that point, - the more inconvenient the withdrawl becomes to the retailer.
 

The exile

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Sadly I'd already eaten, and they didn't accept cash. (Unheard of in Germany!)

I was tempted to kick up a fuss, but the waitress was nice and the food was good, and I didn't want to spoil my day over 43 cents.
In general for somewhere doing “sit down” food in Germany, it’ll be the staff that lose out as the standard tip is to round up - saying how much you wish to pay. Taking any more than that would be “interesting”!
 

U-Bahnfreund

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Sadly I'd already eaten, and they didn't accept cash. (Unheard of in Germany!)

I was tempted to kick up a fuss, but the waitress was nice and the food was good, and I didn't want to spoil my day over 43 cents.
You could try asking the Verbraucherzentrale (consumer protection agency) what the rules around displaying fees for foreign non-EU cards is. Their online form can be found here: https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/beschwerde or contact their Berlin branch here: https://www.verbraucherzentrale-berlin.de/unsere-beratungshotlines-97411 / https://www.verbraucherzentrale-berlin.de/kontakt (e-mail address)
 
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speedy1

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What was strange in Denmark, was that almost every merchant claimed not to know what was happening, and to never have seen it before. I found that very hard to believe, given how many non-EU tourists it gets.
Haha, was the same during DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) scam heyday. They had every excuse: 'don't know what that is', 'machine must be faulty', 'the bank must have set it up that way', 'it's definitely in Euro'...the gaslighting was crazy
 
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Nym

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Never had any of this kind of thing in Berlin, Munich or any of the other German or Austrian places I’ve been…
Perhaps I don’t go to tourist-ey places?
 

riceuten

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Haha, was the same during DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) scam heyday. They had every excuse: 'don't know what that is', 'machine must be faulty', 'the bank must have set it up that way', 'it's definitely in Euro'...the gaslighting was crazy
Spain was the absolute worst for this - "Sorry, sir, the card is British, I can only charge you in sterling" - when presented with a CaxtonFX Euro-denominated bank card. I left about €50 of shopping on the counter at El Corte Ingles when a cashier refused to charge my card in euros, and refused to fetch the manager. Previously, at a different branch of the same, my threat to do so brought a manager who overrode the system and allowed me to pay in the currency of the card.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Never had any of this kind of thing in Berlin, Munich or any of the other German or Austrian places I’ve been…
Perhaps I don’t go to tourist-ey places?
I suspect a German bank or payment processor has changed their policy very recently
 

Nym

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I suspect a German bank or payment processor has changed their policy very recently

Very very recently then. Was only there a few weeks back.

I strongly suspect that it would result in paying in cash or refusing the charges…

Hopefully not the latest round of *insert words here* in Germany making things worse.
 

riceuten

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Very very recently then. Was only there a few weeks back.

I strongly suspect that it would result in paying in cash or refusing the charges…

Hopefully not the latest round of *insert words here* in Germany making things worse.
No, I can't imagine the Germans doing that *rolls eyes*. I will be checking my receipts very carefully in Germany, and taking along a EU-issued, euro-denominated card just in case.
 

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