Is there any significance that non of the first 15 units numerically have not yet ventured out at all ?
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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
- Start date
Is there any significance that non of the first 15 units numerically have not yet ventured out at all ?
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Well I do not know what the average rate the 398s were getting delivered at but mid May to now is 2 1/2 months. One thing that happens is that the manufacturer has to supply warranty parts for earlier units thus leaving them short of parts for the final few to be built. Its usually long life parts that would never be kept in stock.
Wheelsets for example - the lead time on supply of those might cause a delay when they suddenly discover they do not have enough.
I suggest it is either I have not searched back far enough to find testing OR that the earlier ones have some retrospective mods still to be applied.
I am pretty sure the dates for those in service are correct and no units have been overlooked.
chargesmith
Member
029 is in service today. First time we've seen one in public service on a weekend.
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The line is closed due to engineering works.
First trip on a 398 yesterday, just a short hop from the Bay to Queen St, so not really enough to form a proper opinion. As others have said passenger environment is reasonable, airy with large windows and reasonably smooth ride. Acceleration was good, door procedures very slow.
What did strike me was how small they are. I would say similar capacity to a 150, although much higher ratio of folding seats (none in doorways like the Flirts thankfully). Just over 50 boarded at the Bay (plus 2 bikes) and looked as though just over half of the seats were taken. I would say ideal for Bay, Coryton, Penarth, Caerphilly and City line. Those going to/from heads of the valleys in the peaks will be in trouble if not doubled up.
Not what I would have chosen for the Metro, but will reserve judgement until they have bedded in to full service to the routes through Pontypridd.
What did strike me was how small they are. I would say similar capacity to a 150, although much higher ratio of folding seats (none in doorways like the Flirts thankfully). Just over 50 boarded at the Bay (plus 2 bikes) and looked as though just over half of the seats were taken. I would say ideal for Bay, Coryton, Penarth, Caerphilly and City line. Those going to/from heads of the valleys in the peaks will be in trouble if not doubled up.
Not what I would have chosen for the Metro, but will reserve judgement until they have bedded in to full service to the routes through Pontypridd.
One thing I've noticed regarding doors is the driver just being a bit slow to actually release the doors like I heard one say oh whoops thought I'd pressed that, it's all new to me (someone knocked on the cab or something). So hopefully some of this can be tightened up just with more experience.
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Maybe the button is a bit poor
OR
the driver pressed the button before the computer running the software was ready.
chargesmith
Member
It looks like tomorrow TFW have planned to have two 398s out in service.
The first unit is scheduled to leave Taffs Well Depot at 0618, which then forms the 0654 to Cardiff Bay.
The second unit is scheduled to leave the depot at 0731, forming the 0754 service to Cardiff Bay.
One 398 will be finishing early, scheduled to return to the depot around 1830, the other will return just before midnight.
The first unit is scheduled to leave Taffs Well Depot at 0618, which then forms the 0654 to Cardiff Bay.
The second unit is scheduled to leave the depot at 0731, forming the 0754 service to Cardiff Bay.
One 398 will be finishing early, scheduled to return to the depot around 1830, the other will return just before midnight.
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Sorry, yes up to and including Saturday 15th apparently and as with other recent blockades (see SW Metro thread) it's difficult to find out why.
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chargesmith
Member
Most services will eventually run 2 398s in multiple.
Ah okay that makes sense didn’t think it was really enough with what I saw
Cambrian359
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 302
I think the original plan was for every other service to be doubled up in the peaks only,but that was 8 years ago now!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I thought that was every other service on the TAM - Radyr stretch, aka, alternating between doubles to Central and singles to the Bay.
chargesmith
Member
This was my understanding too.
Both 017 and 029 are out in service today, the first time we've seen two 398s in public service at the same time.
Hopefully they get a double set in passenger service soon. Personally I think especially when running in double these will still feel like an upgrade and in years to come people probably won't even remember when the FLIRTS were on these lines.
I really like the big windows, the seats felt comfortable enough though I only did a medium journey on it so can't know fully. One thing it was lacking is the PIS on the cab end. So that felt a bit odd.
I really like the big windows, the seats felt comfortable enough though I only did a medium journey on it so can't know fully. One thing it was lacking is the PIS on the cab end. So that felt a bit odd.
Philip Roberts
Member
I've seen various figures but I think 398s have a capacity of 252, 126 of which are seated (31 flip seats). A 150 has a capacity of 292, 114 of which are seated (6 tip up).
chargesmith
Member
I would argue the 150s standing capacity is typically not at capacity as people tend to congregate near the doors, preventing more people boarding and slowing down getting on and off.
It will be interesting to see if the 398s are better in this regard. They have less doors than a 150, but if you're more able to move down the carriages because they have handrails etc along the full length of the cabin then it will be an improvement.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
398017 seems to have hit a problem at the Bay around 1630, as it was supposed to work 2B80, which was caneclled between cardiff bay and taffs Well and operted from there with 398024
Whatever happened, it doesn't seem to have stopped trains getting to and from the Bay
Are your 150 figures relating to 2x2 seating?
That would be appropriate since the TfW 150s are configured with 2x2 seats.
Philip Roberts
Member
As far as I am aware
Peter Sarf
Established Member
List updated - two in service 03/08/2026 (398017 and 398029 not coupled)
Jamesrob637
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 6,055
A friend is currently at Cardiff Bay and reports some failures and subsequent cancellations.
chargesmith
Member
There were some reports of pantographs up early on if I recall correctly, hopefully an indication that the Bay wires are live now.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
From the 231/756 thread :-
I suppose the roll out of 398s must be at a stage where training is required for the Flirts on the routes they were meant for ?.
I suppose the roll out of 398s must be at a stage where training is required for the Flirts on the routes they were meant for ?.
BillStampy
Established Member
Two units now being out, one for most of the day and one the entire day, is certainly better than a few weeks ago and they seem to be, for the most part, behaving quite well!
December's timetable is still set up to have the TAM lines in 398 operation and 231s on mainline, but time will tell as to whether that'll happen
Has TfW updated its public position on when the 398s will be introduced to the Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr lines? In May, they said that it would be "later this summer", but that now looks very unlikely.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I am tempted to say introduction is teetering on the edge of happening (thats jinxed it). Granted it won't be total replacement any time soon but then I don't think TfW are saying that.