Lewisham <> Bank is 12 trains per hour. I'm not sure which other line you are referencing but if it's Lewisham <> Stratford, these were peak only and have not been running for a considerable amount of time. There are no other DLR services from Lewisham.
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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)
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Redistou
Member
Yes wasnt clear - The peak lewisham <> stratford service was removed last year to preserve the old rolling stock with new trains due any minute and was due to be re-instated at the next timetable update. We all know what happened next. At the time lewisham <> canary wharf and canary wharf <> stratford seemed to be about every 3 minutes or so and generally the switchover seemed to line up. Last week and the week before, it seemed to be 5-6 minutes between services. In fact it was 7 minutes at stratford and 6 minutes at canary wharf but maybe I was unlucky at 5:15pm. But at that cadence its no longer seamless or pleasant to change to get off, wait, and squeeze on to another busy train. I appreciate the realities of a frequent service is they aren't perfectly spaced, but I get the sense that the trains/hr is on average, been reduced.
Snow1964
Established Member
The TfL Board papers (where they leave out juicy details, and presumably put them in non public part 2 papers) seem to suggest waiting for ORR approval to reinstate the new trains.
However it is not clear if that means ORR are taking their time, or if TfL haven't yet supplied sufficient info to ORR to get a sign off, or if it is signed off but subject to modifications that haven't yet been done.
Mattplans
Member
are all of the trains in the depots now? or are some still being stored overseas
There isnt space for all the B23s plus old stock. I think there are 12 that have been delivered to Beckton (someone please correct me if I’m wrong), and the rest are stored overseas.
This will have some relevance to the thread as one of the existing DLR B07 units seems to have been fitted with new text-to-speech onboard announcements, as reported on Facebook and now uploaded by that messenger to YouTube:
Perhaps a sign of the times to be fitted to the rest of the fleet, alongside the B23?
Perhaps a sign of the times to be fitted to the rest of the fleet, alongside the B23?
God they sound awful. Some of the information is sped up, some of it is clear, some of it she sounds incredibly depressed. It’s an absolute jumble.
burneside
Member
I cannot understand why the DLR thinks these announcements are an improvement on what we already have.
MCR247
Established Member
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Have they just fed old script to the text-to-speech system? That seems particularly lazy and is always going to highlight the downsides/difficulties with text-to-speech.
I’ve not used the DLR for a while but I seem to recall some unusual phrasing on there such as the “When leaving the train, please remember to take all your personal belongings with you” which sounds even odder now without the intonations.
With it being text-to-speech surely it can’t be too difficult to add an extra space between “Stratford International” and “London Underground” on that Canning Town announcement
DLRnotDave
Member
These sound absolutely dire.
There was at least one two-car B90/B92 train out on the Bank-Lewisham service yesterday. Spotted one in the afternoon then had the misfortune to catch a very crowded two-car train out of Bank at 10:30 last night - and one on which the visual and audio Public Information Systems weren't working. Makes me wonder if TfL are having issues keeping this stock going until the new stock is back in service.
Glad they've centred the DLR roundel on the side. Was sat far too low on the first builds
Image from Rail Engineer article https://www.railengineer.co.uk/new-trains-on-the-docklands-light-railway/
Spotted lots of B23, in individual cars only as far as I can tell, in storage on my way to Vitoria-Gasteiz at Olatzi (along with other Urbos tram rakes)
Sorry for the quality of the picture, moving train and realizing too late what that was
And Google Street View shows that a subset has been there since 2024
Sorry for the quality of the picture, moving train and realizing too late what that was
And Google Street View shows that a subset has been there since 2024
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My experience on Friday with a 2-car train on the Bank-Lewisham route was not a one-off experience. This week the DLR appear to be running a mix of 2-car and 3-car trains on the route (I've spotted 2-car B07 stock and 2-car and 3-car B90/92 stock today so far). I'm just wondering why, unlike at Christmas, the DLR have not given any advanced warning.
Redistou
Member
Yup, a two-car for me, stratford to canary wharf thursday at 5:30pm, but Im sure I saw a three-car coming the other way. The service frequency is definitely reduced as well. I dont know what the official t-p/h is normally, but these were every 5 minutes at their most clustered.
Roylang
Member
Not seen it asked before, but what has the reduction in sevice meant on crews? Has the number of staff available been reduced?
Are we now going to find that when the new stock can enter service there is a lack of crew available? I know staff need training on the stock, but you gave to have people available to train.
Roy
Are we now going to find that when the new stock can enter service there is a lack of crew available? I know staff need training on the stock, but you gave to have people available to train.
Roy
As far as I can see, service reductions because of the need to "rest" B90/B92 stock have only been at peak times on Monday to Friday only, so I am assuming that the effect on staffing is limited and that any "ramping" up of service when the new trains eventually do start to become available would involve a very shallow ramp with plenty of time to perform any staff training.
The reductions are quite substantial; the Beckton branch before, and even all through Covid with hardly any passengers, were every 10 minutes 3-car to Tower Gateway, and every 10 minutes 3-car to either Canning Town or Stratford. Now it's just 2-car every 10 minutes to Tower. That's a two-thirds reduction in capacity, and leads to considerable overcrowding, even at weekends.
The Stratford to Canary Wharf line has been 2-car only for a couple of years now, ever since the first formation reductions.
It's difficult to just reduce frequency on the line because of the several single line sections at the north end, which normally works quite well with trains passing at given 2-track points. The only reduction possible is to completely eliminate given trains. It's a line which in fact operates on completely independent tracks to the rest of the system now that prolongations to Lewisham have stopped, and it has its own standard intervals rather than those of the rest of the DLR.
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Step down onto the adjacent main road images at that Spanish factory, and multiple DLR trains have been in that yard since December 2022. That's nearly 4 years they have been stored outside there.
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Redistou
Member
thanks that's really interesting. Funny how the sleepy traveller fails notice the details - I have to take as read that stratford<>Canary wharf is always two-car.The reductions are quite substantial; the Beckton branch before, and even all through Covid with hardly any passengers, were every 10 minutes 3-car to Tower Gateway, and every 10 minutes 3-car to either Canning Town or Stratford. Now it's just 2-car every 10 minutes to Tower. That's a two-thirds reduction in capacity, and leads to considerable overcrowding, even at weekends.
The Stratford to Canary Wharf line has been 2-car only for a couple of years now, ever since the first formation reductions.
It's difficult to just reduce frequency on the line because of the several single line sections at the north end, which normally works quite well with trains passing at given 2-track points. The only reduction possible is to completely eliminate given trains. It's a line which in fact operates on completely independent tracks to the rest of the system now that prolongations to Lewisham have stopped, and it has its own standard intervals rather than those of the rest of the DLR.
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Step down onto the adjacent main road images at that Spanish factory, and multiple DLR trains have been in that yard since December 2022. That's nearly 4 years they have been stored outside there.
I did go back to this time last year for the official timeable as I decided if there was a formal change in the service pattern, it would show up - and here it is!
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Snow1964
Established Member
Recent TfL Board report said late summer.
Assuming they are using normal summer definition (and not meteorological end on 31 August), then got until Tuesday 22nd September (strictly early hours of 23rd when no trains scheduled)
So unless the commissioning teams have misled the TfL Board, should be back in service in about 4 weeks time, if not earlier.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Diamaond geezer's blog yesterday (august 21st) reported seeing lots of them at Ziordia in the basque Country
diamondgeezer.blogspot.com
diamond geezer
diamondgeezer.blogspot.com
I see that I think DG himself (as signed) posted this on 2nd August above. I too was coming here to put a link up to DG's blog and noticed the earlier post as I was scrolling down.Diamaond geezer's blog yesterday (august 21st) reported seeing lots of them at Ziordia in the basque Country
diamond geezer
But it's always a good thing to remind everyone of his excellent blog every time we can!
DLRnotDave
Member
Hearing positive sounds about reintroduction early to mid next month
Snow1964
Established Member
My hunch is at Board level, there are 2 key dates :
The Safety and Security committee meet on Monday 7 September
The TfL Board meet on Wednesday 23 September
The papers for these meetings are normally published clear 7 days ahead, (and not at weekends or bank holidays), so Fri 28 Aug and Tuesday evening 15th September.
My guess is Board would like to say back in service in their meeting, so between 8th and 15th return to service seems likely, after decision ratified at the Safety meeting on 7th
It's unfortunate such accounts, based on TfL information, show the latter is STILL milking the line about the bankruptcy of the contractor building the additional sidings at Beckton depot. To save wading back through this thread, Buckingham Group went bankrupt in August 2023, that's 3 years ago. A replacement contractor was appointed fairly straightforwardly, being the one on site already doing the major buildings work, but the story of the bankruptcy carried on throughout the sidings construction, and long afterwards. To see the new sidings you only have to look at Google Maps to see the group of 11 new sidings on the north side, and three on the south side, all there and nicely ballasted - and empty. The additional sidings are only really needed during the transition, and one would hope that not a lot beyond one-in, one-out would be needed once the old trains start to go. And they are only open air sidings, on level ground, the sort of thing that were done in WW2 in a matter of weeks, some of which I am very familiar with are still with us ...
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DLRnotDave
Member
The Google imagery was taken before commissioning, the new sidings are now in use, What's not shown is that the old Northern sidings have been ripped up for the construction of the new maintenance facility, so the actual extra space available is relatively small at present.
There's 21 more B23s coming than equivalent 3 unit B92 trains going, additionally the fixed 5-car formation makes stabling them less flexible than the old stock that can move around the depot as single units.
No more B23s can be accepted until B92s can resume being scrapped.
50002Superb
Established Member
Have any gone for scrap yet?
Not seen any reported
Not seen any reported