£33.4 million for next batch of ticket gates

[kje7812]

I wonder where they will put them at Worcester Foregate Street. As I am sure people know, two sets will be needed and the lifts are very close to the exit.

I could claim to arrive at Worcester from say Ledbury legitimately without a ticket. I could claim there was no way to buy my ticket. Perhaps the ticket buying facilities at Ledbury and other local stations have massively improved recently.

If they resurrect the improvement work that were proposed before covid, only one set of barriers would be need as the travel centre and ticket office area would be opened up and combined. See the pic here for more details:

Revenue blockades at stations NOT managed by their TOC

This morning at West Midlands Railway managed Worcester Foregate Street, a brigade of four GWR Revenue Inspectors in full green gear were barricading the narrow point between the entrance/ticket office and the main concourse, only letting people pass or leave when tickets and railcards were...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[aron2smith]

Hertford East would be easy to set up the barriers in the current station building which allows access to both platforms

Yeah I agree but I just don't see them employing people to stand around until end of service after the evening rush when it's only a half hourly service. Even less so at Ware. So they are going to install barriers and then after a certain time just leave them open, seems pointless. Probably leave them open in the daytime as staff are unavailable too. Even TFL is known for just opening most of the barriers at outer tube stations at quiet times, especially on the Central and Piccadilly Lines in NW London.

I noticed they increased staffing hours from 19:30 to 22:45 to 23:00 at Cheshunt in January this year, but that gets 8tph almost all day, a big difference to a quiet branch line. Either way a better solution is more staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2026 ==

Agreed - in particular they are one reason for the Tube being a very safe environment. The DLR, which doesn't have them, feels like the Wild West when it passes through rough areas, and antisocial behaviour on board trains in cities in rough areas of Germany (where there are no gates at all) is absolutely rife.

I've had more issues on the tube and Overground than the DLR, always a homeless beggar at somepoint. Nearly every journey it seems nowadays!

 

[talldave]

Lots of the station are already gated or partially gated hence I suspect upgrading from partial to full gating and/or installation of more robust gates as part of a trial to prove the value (for future business cases) in moving from partial to full gating and/or more effective gates at existing station before wider roll out.
One of the more interesting stations on the list is Gipsy Hill, with the main entrance gated in 2008. But it has huge amounts of ticket less travel because of people tail gating, pushing through barriers and most significantly using the ungated entrance on platform 1 (has readers but not gates).
Large numbers of the ticketless are school children who enter with Zip Cards at LO stations and exit at Gipsy Hill P1 entrance (no LO services at Gipsy Hill) in the morning.
The CCTV set up at Gipsy Hill is excellent hence they already probably have a very good idea of what evasion levels and cases are so after upgrades they can estimate how many more are paying and how many have given up on using the station.

If all the non-fare payers at Gipsy Hill paid up (which they won't!) the incremental revenue would pay of the gating improvements in less than a year. HMT and DfT want speedy RoI hence the need to see how much extra income is delivered in practice.

You do get frowned at by the cat sat on the Oyster readers on Platform 1 if you don't tap in/out though !

However, more seriously, there's plenty of room to do a "West Norwood" on Platform 1.

 

[81A]

I've had more issues on the tube and Overground than the DLR, always a homeless beggar at somepoint. Nearly every journey it seems nowadays!

To be fair, I have found most TFL services to be fairly safe feeling. Mostly tube/Elizabeth line in zone 1 though, so probably passing through less "trouble spots".

My guess is gates do help some, since they are a barrier to entry (if someone is looking for an easy place to hang around and beg or similar, there will probably be easier options). They obviously don't stop the really determined (though these new full height ones seem to be heading a bit in that direction).

That said, the DLR has also felt fairly safe the few times I have used it (I think the presence of the passenger service assistant and CCTV help)...

 

[jamess]

I suspect there is some good business to Wolves and Birmingham, that will get picked up, once Stafford has barriers!

 

[Kite159]

I suspect there is some good business to Wolves and Birmingham, that will get picked up, once Stafford has barriers!

You mean ticket sales between Duddeston & Birmingham New Street* will strangely drop when the Stafford commuters no longer can hope for a free ride on an overcrowded voyager?

(*Other stations are available to bypass the barriers at New Street)

 

[Southend Rider]

Be interesting how they are installed at Rayleigh it currently has 3 exits, 1, through the booking hall / Waiting room with limited space. 2, through a side entrance next to the booking hall again with limited space 3, on the Southend bound platform underneath the footbridge. I guess they will also have to move the ticket machines as 2 are on the platforms, with 3rd in the booking hall/ waiting room which is closed in the evenings. All the entries are busy during the peak periods.

 

[JonathanH]

You mean ticket sales between Duddeston & Birmingham New Street* will strangely drop when the Stafford commuters no longer can hope for a free ride on an overcrowded voyager?

(*Other stations are available to bypass the barriers at New Street)

Do more people buy short tickets, or just bump / tailgate? There are clearly reports of people buying short tickets on the disputes part of the forum, but someone caught bumping or tailgating doesn't really have the same recompense to ask for assistance on those threads.

Until such time as facial recognition is used widely to deal with bumping and tailgating, it is almost easier for fare evaders to use that approach than short faring.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Do more people buy short tickets, or just bump / tailgate? There are clearly reports of people buying short tickets on the disputes part of the forum, but someone caught bumping or tailgating doesn't really have the same recompense to ask for assistance on those threads.

Until such time as facial recognition is used widely to deal with bumping and tailgating, it is almost easier for fare evaders to use that approach than short faring.

Some bump at New St, but it's quite a rare sight and those that do it stick out like a sore thumb. They know that unless security are at the barrier they will get away with it, and care not open bit about the acorn and words from those that see them do it.

This won't change, they will just jump over the gates at the Victoria Square exit as that's always going to be an emergency exit route even if not manned.

Short faring becomes doughnuting. Which does get caught onboard, depending on TOC obviously.

 

[alistairlees]

I would like to see the business case for these. Is the £33m capital cost only, or does it include maintenance of the gates, and additional staffing costs (if any) over the lifetime operational period? What is the anticipated lifetime? During this time, what is the additional revenue that will be gained and what is the basis for this (as it’s a more uncertain number than the costs)?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I would like to see the business case for these. Is the £33m capital cost only, or does it include maintenance of the gates, and additional staffing costs (if any) over the lifetime operational period? What is the anticipated lifetime? During this time, what is the additional revenue that will be gained and what is the basis for this (as it’s a more uncertain number than the costs)?

I'd hope it includes Opex and potentially civils work. Cubic may be expensive, but £33.4m to gate (or replace existing gates at) eighteen stations is excessive even for them!

 

[alistairlees]

These are S&B gates, not Cubic. But I agree that there’s a lot of cost here. What I object to though is the dishonest comparison of the £33m cost for gates at 18 stations with the estimated fraud (of £400m) from 2,600 stations (without saying so).

If the business case for the 18 stations was good, then I expect it would have been stated (e.g. “these 18 stations alone account for £50m of the total £400m fraud”) would seem like a reasonable case for investing.

But no mention is made of this, which suggests to me that the business case is negative. Lack of transparency is always a bad sign.

 

[Benjwri]

These are S&B gates, not Cubic.

No? They're Cubic FEnXFare gates.

 

[Chriso]

The last paragraph is very interesting in being a recognition that a lot more stations will be gated. Presumably the value of having more robust gates and possibly getting to a stage where all urban stations are gated is being noted given ticketing changes.

I note that Stevenage and Worthing are already gated, so perhaps in line for the new more robust gatelines. If so, it would seem odd to just discard the existing gates rather than reinstalling them elsewhere.

I believe this will be for currently ungated entrance and exits at Stevenage they will gate the lifts and at Worthing the underpass along with the northbound platform at Royston

 

[CyrusWuff]

These are S&B gates, not Cubic. But I agree that there’s a lot of cost here. What I object to though is the dishonest comparison of the £33m cost for gates at 18 stations with the estimated fraud (of £400m) from 2,600 stations (without saying so).

Witham, Rayleigh, Ware, Hertford East, Stevenage, Elephant & Castle and Gipsy Hill have to be Cubic gates, given they're in the Oyster or Oval area and you can't install a TfL reader on an S&B or Vix gate. They could potentially be standard E2 gates rather than the new FEnX gates though.

 

[alistairlees]

Apologies, I thought they were S&B for some reason. It doesn't affect the relevance of my question though.

 

[viscountviktor]

Well, that explains the recent addition of a gate to the side entrance at Tamworth.

Not sure where barriers will go at Nuneaton, the current ticket hall is quite small.

Though I'd suggest WMT's funding would be better spent on the Cross-City line which for many, operates as a free service.

I also was hoping for some Cross City stations on the list - Selly Oak is one of the busiest ungated stations in the country.

Glad to see Nuneaton and Tamworth on there though.

 

[Sakuradori]

I’ve seen multiple people fight with a CCST on a scanner trying every which way to do it

Personal favourite of mine was asking people to scan their barcode ticket on the glass, and watching them then try and scan the barcode on the plastic contactless reader, which their phone automatically detects and scans the bank card instead.

 

[Russel]

These are S&B gates, not Cubic. But I agree that there’s a lot of cost here. What I object to though is the dishonest comparison of the £33m cost for gates at 18 stations with the estimated fraud (of £400m) from 2,600 stations (without saying so).

If the business case for the 18 stations was good, then I expect it would have been stated (e.g. “these 18 stations alone account for £50m of the total £400m fraud”) would seem like a reasonable case for investing.

But no mention is made of this, which suggests to me that the business case is negative. Lack of transparency is always a bad sign.

I'd like to know how and why these 18 station were chosen, it's seem a bit picked at random and I can think of far better places to put them.

 

[Farnborough]

I got off a 6-car TPE there a couple of weeks ago and it took forever to get out.

Farnborough, while being a longstanding gated station is a thoroughly frustrating station...

Evening 12-car arrivals from London, full of passengers disembark onto the platform... and then have to wait while people filter through the three or four gates.

Throw into the mix people trying to tap-out (nope...) or whose digital ticket won't open the barrier, or whose paper ticket has got a bit bent...

 

[talldave]

I'd like to know how and why these 18 station were chosen, it's seem a bit picked at random and I can think of far better places to put them.

In the case of Gipsy Hill I imagine they're trying to improve on the current level of ticket checking!

[Attached: photo of cat on Oyster reader at Gypsy Hill station]

 

[hwl]

I'd like to know how and why these 18 station were chosen, it's seem a bit picked at random and I can think of far better places to put them.

This is a trial to assess business cases so they will target places where they can assess the impact of gating on recovering more revenue - they won't capture all of the potential value of ticket less travel (e.g. as some people won't travel any more etc.). Based on these trials covering quite a few different case studies they will then inform later rounds of gating investment.

All the location have excellent CCTV coverage and probably a very got good understanding by the TOC(s) at those station of evasion patterns. The government is also looking for fast pay back on investment hence the later levels of investment in gating will depend on the relative success in the trials.

In the case of Gipsy Hill it is likely that the open gate (behind the cat in talldave's photo) on P1 is enabling fare evasion of >£0.5m p.a. but how much extra ticketing revenue would actually be recovered?
Doing P1 at Gipsy Hill will close one end of quite few open to open station pairs with reasonable user levels.
The trial at Gipsy Hill could also include new anti push through gates upstairs and also more staffing hours (gates open in the evening), hence a very useful test location for a number of separate themes if changes are made gradually so data can be collected. It was also a test site for the big Southern gating roll out ~18 years ago so there may be useful original learnings on gateline staffing hours from back then.

 

[saismee]

I'm still wondering why Manningtree is being gated. Is it really that bad for evasion? I thought it was a bunch of posh older people. I suppose that it is being used as the "next stop" for people arriving at Colchester or Ipswich without tickets.

 

[Benjwri]

I'm still wondering why Manningtree is being gated. Is it really that bad for evasion? I thought it was a bunch of posh older people. I suppose that it is being used as the "next stop" for people arriving at Colchester or Ipswich without tickets.

Despite what people like to believe ‘posh older people’ fare evade too. When an RPI does turn up on the route from my parents there are loads of them getting caught, Henley Regatta is another proof of that.

 

[1D54]

Glad to see Nuneaton and Tamworth on there though.

Should both do well off non travelling locals who will now be needing platform tickets.

 

[rmHawk765]

when it's only a half hourly service

It is a 4tph service in the peaks with trains full and standing by Tottenham Hale. Similar situation at Hertford North with up to 6tph, though that has a much smaller ticket hall. Hertford North, just like the rest of the Hertford Loop stations, is not really staffed properly and the gates are often just left open. Existing gates are already pretty decent at this job of helping to mitigate fare evasion, assuming the station is staffed properly.

 

[saismee]

Should both do well off non travelling locals who will now be needing platform tickets.

10p each, I don't think so. One benefit of gates is that it reduces the risk of vulnerable people accessing the railway, which is another reason that platform tickets are (or should be) required to pass through a gateline. There's other ways into the railway of course, but being able to spot and stop these people could be the thing that saves them from themselves.

 

[Russel]

Should both do well off non travelling locals who will now be needing platform tickets.

Why?

 

[rmHawk765]

One benefit of gates is that it reduces the risk of vulnerable people accessing the railway, which is another reason that platform tickets are (or should be) required to pass through a gateline. There's other ways into the railway of course, but being able to spot and stop these people could be the thing that saves them from themselves.

Certainly one of the better arguments for them I've seen.

 

[ReturnToSPT]

Hopefully the Manchester Piccadilly funding is actually for barriers on the northern controlled platforms rather than replacement of existing barriers on the TPE platforms. The current system of manual checks on the higher numbered northern platforms is woefully inefficient, particularly at peak times