TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[Diedinium]

Do you know if they have a bucket and shower screen in the emergency cupboard?

I'm not involved in the 398s directly so I can't say for sure; but I would highly doubt it as that info comes from the same user who has repeatedly falsely claimed there are brake issues among other major faults with the 398s.

(A bucket and shower screen are not part of the default emergency equipment on board most trains for reference)

 

[Coleridge]

There's an internal update email from the 16th July that has detailed that the 398s are temporarily out of service due to an issue with the way data is recorded from the train - so presumably an issue with the OTDR that they've noticed.

States that they hope to have them back out for training runs by next week and passenger runs as soon as possible.

As someone who actually works for TfW I would very much encourage readers of this thread to discount the statements of certain people on here claiming there is stuff apocalyptically wrong with these trains - they are just having the same mild teething issues that most new trains have.

That is precisely what VR494 wrote here at 21:46 yesterday.

 

[AdamWW]

That is precisely what VR494 wrote here at 21:46 yesterday.

Indeed and which has now been confirmed by two other people.

 

[Coleridge]

Well they stated that they would enter service in late 2027/28 at the earliest as recently as the start of June, just weeks before they entered service, which I do believe them entering service in June 2026 disproves.

Now I'm getting very confused.

In a video released by TfW on 5 June (embedded in post #1734 in this thread) it is stated that the units would be rolled out very soon and that they would be in operation to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr later this summer.

Where did you get the "late 2027/28 at the earliest" information from?

 

[chrisjo]

Where did you get the "late 2027/28 at the earliest" information from?

From 'they' i.e. the poster on this forum, not TfW.

 

[Benjwri]

Now I'm getting very confused.

In a video released by TfW on 5 June (embedded in post #1734 in this thread) it is stated that the units would be rolled out very soon and that they would be in operation to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr later this summer.

Where did you get the "late 2027/28 at the earliest" information from?

From the poster you are defending the reliability of's own post in response to that very video!

Another classic PR stunt there again. They need to stop promising dates, it's not going to happen. Late summer, but more like 2027-28.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There's an internal update email from the 16th July that has detailed that the 398s are temporarily out of service due to an issue with the way data is recorded from the train - so presumably an issue with the OTDR that they've noticed.

States that they hope to have them back out for training runs by next week and passenger runs as soon as possible.

As someone who actually works for TfW I would very much encourage readers of this thread to discount the statements of certain people on here claiming there is stuff apocalyptically wrong with these trains - they are just having the same mild teething issues that most new trains have.

This is very likely. It would be odd (I am afraid) if any new fleet introduction went smoothly BUT it is unlikely to be so bad that the 398s are abandoned. I would suggest extremely likely nothing to see here just teething problems.

 

[Caaardiff]

This is very likely. It would be odd (I am afraid) if any new fleet introduction went smoothly BUT it is unlikely to be so bad that the 398s are abandoned. I would suggest extremely likely nothing to see here just teething problems.

Given the amount of money that has been put into the new fleet, infrastructure and Depot there is no way TFW will give up on the 398s unless something went catastrophically wrong.

Anyway, this topic is turning into arguments about who is right and who is wrong. Maybe its best to ease up on the speculation and certain posters to only share validated and factual information that is backed up from genuine sources.

 

[chargesmith]

It appears there was a test run last night with 022. It ran around the City Line loop and back to the depot. No further test runs so far today.

 

[positron]

It appears there was a test run last night with 022. It ran around the City Line loop and back to the depot. No further test runs so far today.

Good to see them on network rail infrastructure.

 

[sd0733]

It appears there was a test run last night with 022. It ran around the City Line loop and back to the depot. No further test runs so far today.

Training runs are planned to restart on Monday with passenger service hoped to be not too far behind so cant be a huge problem to fix.

 

[Coleridge]

From 'they' i.e. the poster on this forum, not TfW.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood the post, and thought that "they" referred to TfW.

At least this is a claim that should be easily proved or disproved on the day that the 398s enter proper public service.

Maybe its best to ease up on the speculation and certain posters to only share validated and factual information that is backed up from genuine sources.

Some of what "certain posters" have written here has been verified by other sources, so clearly they do have a source within TfW. It would be unfair to demand that only negative views of the 398s are backed up with verifiable sources, and I would like to continue seeing everyone's opinions, whether positive or negative, without the personal attacks. Time will tell which claims were correct and which were not.

 

[Cowley]

We’re happy with what’s currently being stated over the last few days on this thread.

Time to have a bit of a reset and move on, so please keep things informative and useful from here on.

Thanks

 

[WelshBluebird]

At least this is a claim that should be easily proved or disproved on the day that the 398s enter proper public service.

Which already has happened no?

 

[800001]

Which already has happened no?

Yes; they have entered passenger carrying service and have operated over several days.

 

[5021]

Given the amount of money that has been put into the new fleet, infrastructure and Depot there is no way TFW will give up on the 398s unless something went catastrophically wrong.

Anyway, this topic is turning into arguments about who is right and who is wrong. Maybe its best to ease up on the speculation and certain posters to only share validated and factual information that is backed up from genuine sources.

There is a smaller scale TfW comparison - their persistence with the Class 230 units on the Wrexham - Bidston line which have kept throwing up new problems after others were fixed.

TfW have stated at a rail user group meeting I attended the exact equivalent of what Caaardiff has said above.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2026 ==

Now I'm getting very confused.

In a video released by TfW on 5 June (embedded in post #1734 in this thread) it is stated that the units would be rolled out very soon and that they would be in operation to Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr later this summer.

Where did you get the "late 2027/28 at the earliest" information from?

I understood (I think from one of these threads) that the current plan is merely to extend the Cardiff Bay - Pontypridd operation to Treherbert from or before the next timetable change in December, in which case it will be 2027 before they go public on other lines - but their planning director's presentation at a Transport Liaison Group session I attended on 10th July claimed that their introduction will set off a "Grand Cascade" of other stock which they expect to complete for the start of the May 2027 timetable.

This is a good 4 years later than originally expected but for a whole range of reasons, by no means all the fault of the units themselves?

The one current problem he did specifically admit to was that of running the 398s in multiple.

 

[Coleridge]

I understood (I think from one of these threads) that the current plan is merely to extend the Cardiff Bay - Pontypridd operation to Treherbert from or before the next timetable change in December, in which case it will be 2027 before they go public on other lines - but their planning director's presentation at a Transport Liaison Group session I attended on 10th July claimed that their introduction will set off a "Grand Cascade" of other stock which they expect to complete for the start of the May 2027 timetable.

Can you tell us more about this Transport Liaison Group? Is "Treherbert by December, the other lines next year" TfW's official stance on the 398 rollout now?

If so, it differs quite significantly from what TfW promised in the promotional video they released just 6 weeks ago, on 5 June:

We'll start running [the 398s] on services between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay before rolling out to the Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr lines later this summer.

(Verbatim, but the bolding is mine.)

Is this no longer policy? Has TfW updated its public position on the rollout of the 398s since that video?

Incidentally, it was in response to that statement that a member of the forum wrote:

They need to stop promising dates... Late summer, but more like 2027-28.

This doesn't actually seem to be very different from what you were told by the planning director.

 

[390112A]

Can you tell us more about this Transport Liaison Group? Is "Treherbert by December, the other lines next year" TfW's official stance on the 398 rollout now?

If so, it differs quite significantly from what TfW promised in the promotional video they released just 6 weeks ago, on 5 June:

Is this no longer policy? Has TfW updated its public position on the rollout of the 398s since that video?

I think you have misunderstood the original post.

It says completed by next year not starting next year. Meaning in the coming weeks/months 398 operation will be expanded. And that by next year this will allow FLIRTs to be cascaded to other routes. This is a similar timeframe as what you have quoted TFW’s position as.

 

[5021]

I think you have misunderstood the original post.

It says completed by next year not starting next year. Meaning in the coming weeks/months 398 operation will be expanded. And that by next year this will allow FLIRTs to be cascaded to other routes. This is a similar timeframe as what you have quoted TFW’s position as.

Absolutely, in other words it's quite sensibly not too rigid a time frame, just as no firm date for the start of the present limited public service was announced in advance (though I still find that a little surprising, but we've already been there). I can share the relevant presentation slides - see attached PDFs

 

[alm37]

It appears there was a test run last night with 022. It ran around the City Line loop and back to the depot. No further test runs so far today.

Four sets out on test today, according to RTT, and running in multiple - 017/018 on one diagram, and 020/031 on the other.

 

[chargesmith]

Some test runs have been out today, interestingly RTT is reporting that they are 6 car trains so it looks like they are testing multiple running.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Four sets out on test today, according to RTT, and running in multiple - 017/018 on one diagram, and 020/031 on the other.

+

Some test runs have been out today, interestingly RTT is reporting that they are 6 car trains so it looks like they are testing multiple running.

So, unless you are both wrong....
Multiple working is possible.
(he says hoping not to jinx it).
In fact multiple cases of multiple test runs.

I suppose a picture will be along soon (pleeze).

IMO multiple working is quite a big step and one I would have thought would be put off until later if there are so many other problems to deal with.
So maybe all the other problems to be dealt with are resolved ?.

I suppose if (just suggesting if) more units are ready for testing than there are testers and paths available then multiple working is a good solution.

 

[positron]

Interesting that 030 hasn't appeared back out yet after it's break down last week.

 

[SeaKing]

Four sets out on test today, according to RTT, and running in multiple - 017/018 on one diagram, and 020/031 on the other.

Also seen with my own eyeballs.

 

[Philip Roberts]

Absolutely, in other words it's quite sensibly not too rigid a time frame, just as no firm date for the start of the present limited public service was announced in advance (though I still find that a little surprising, but we've already been there). I can share the relevant presentation slides - see attached PDFs

How do we think the cascade will work - introduce a few units are a time or a wait until a substantial number can move over?

 

[Peter Sarf]

How do we think the cascade will work - introduce a few units are a time or a wait until a substantial number can move over?

I would say each unit one at a time as soon as available. After all we effectively already have started with just one.

I am then really trying to think where any mixed working with older units might be tricky. Perhaps rescue/recovery (dragging) would be difficult on any single track sections on branches further North than Pontypiridd ?.

 

[chargesmith]

Couple more test runs today, appear to be in multiple. Here's hoping they'll be back out in public service soon.

 

[nigelsporne]

398020 and 24 appeared from Aberdare but no sign of the couple off the depot at 16.40 ish.

 

[sd0733]

Here's hoping they'll be back out in public service soon.

Hoped to be back out in service tomorrow.

 

[BillStampy]

Hoped to be back out in service tomorrow.

398030 making itself known, running a full day in service all being well!