wythallpaul
Member
Allocation for 08/07/2026:- 197039 on 5D97.
Clarification:- 5D97 0910 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester D.M.U.D.
Clarification:- 5D97 0910 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester D.M.U.D.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks for spotting. Fingers crossed it is not just on its way to Shrewesbury and then Machynlleth.....
According to RTT we have 44 in service today - 27 x 2 car and 17 x 3 car so that leaves 5 short to cover their diagrams.
The units not in service appear to be:
197006 197008 197010 197011 197012 197013 197014 197016 197017 197018 197020 197024 197028 197029 197030 197033 197035 197036 197039 197042 197043 197046 197047 197051 197103 197106 197107 197110 197111 197113 197119 197123 and 197125
The units not in service appear to be:
197006 197008 197010 197011 197012 197013 197014 197016 197017 197018 197020 197024 197028 197029 197030 197033 197035 197036 197039 197042 197043 197046 197047 197051 197103 197106 197107 197110 197111 197113 197119 197123 and 197125
Peter Sarf
Established Member
It seems 197039 has sneaked back to Cambrian Testing and/or Training (according to info passed on from a friend).
So no exposure to passengers yet !.
So no exposure to passengers yet !.
RTT Suggests 197103 has worked the 1527 Aberystwyth to Wolverhampton today, is the correct or an RTT glitch?
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Correct
Quite a few glitches if you look at the whole days service at somewhere like Welshpool with many 197s showing including some coupled to 158s. I suspect the usual TfW ‘set swap Shrewsbury’ is in the mix too.
That was my guess but wasn't sure.
nigelsporne
Member
Serious problems for TfW today with unit shortages due to maintenance issues so no service to Birmingham. Units being turned around at Wolverhampton so anything may be possible!
Do we know how many 197s were in service today and how many diagrams were uncovered or short formed?
Ive just seen TFW Bristol service may be going ahead from December. They will need to get things moving by then especially if 197s are needed for Cambrian by then too.
nigelsporne
Member
Sorry unable to shed any lights on 197 situation. The Brums are normally 158s so the Aberystwyth services have been affected. Wrexham to Chester service, which I assume is a 197, also affected.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Impossible for 197103 (or any of the 56 197s of 197101-126 or 197001-002, 197004-021 or 197042-051) to go on the Cambrian as they're not ETCS-fitted.
The 21 197s that are ETCS-fitted (and therefore can go on the Cambrian) are (197003 and) 197022-041. Even if it had been one of those showing, I'd have been very surprised, as that would've meant an entry-to-service of Class 197 on the Cambrian railway about 2 months earlier than planned.
This has been happening for nearly 2 weeks. Most of their 158 fleet is parked up due to failed air con. 197s have stepped in to cover where they can on the parts off the Cambrian.
I’m guessing it’s 158 cab air-con that’s failed? 158 passenger air con is hardly high quality or reliable: A TfW 158 without opened windows is a bit of a rarity in summer.
Snow1964
Established Member
Having spoken with an a/c engineer, he doesn't really understand why so many would fail simultaneously (rather than evenly over time)
- system would be used all year because it also does dehumidifying and demisting in winter
- it's not like an engine that can overspeed, it should be able to run continuously at its maximum setting.
- gas won't leak from properly maintained pipes and seals
So is it the air con has just suddenly failed in last week or so, or is the truth that a lot of it it failed months ago, and sloppy maintenance didn't get it repaired many weeks/months ago.
Moderator note: 158 air-con issues moved to:
TfW 158s air conditioning problems
Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caf-class-197-civity-for-tfw-news-and-updates-on-introduction.182501/ Having spoken with an a/c engineer, he doesn't really understand why so many would fail simultaneously (rather than evenly over time) - system would be used all...
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nigelsporne
Member
197026 did a late flit last night between Aberystwyth and Machynlleth.
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50002Superb
Established Member
Anyone know which 197 is currently at Central Rivers please?
wythallpaul
Member
197119 was on 5M98 Yesterday Morning According to RTT (16/07/2026).
Clarification :- 5M98 0556 Chester D.M.U.D (XCH) to Barton Under Needwood Rsmd (XUN).
50002Superb
Established Member
Great, thanks.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Anyway back to 197s. Any ideas how long 197039 is going to hide away on Cambrian testing and training ?
I had assumed it would have to do a stint sooner rather than later exposed to real passengers, so on non-Cambrian services.
I now suspect that will not happen until 197s take over on Cambrian services and so then it will only EVER get as far out of the Cambrian sphere as Birmingham with the occasional trip to Chester DMU depot of course.
I had assumed it would have to do a stint sooner rather than later exposed to real passengers, so on non-Cambrian services.
I now suspect that will not happen until 197s take over on Cambrian services and so then it will only EVER get as far out of the Cambrian sphere as Birmingham with the occasional trip to Chester DMU depot of course.
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I Believe theres a Sunday diagram from December for an ERTMS unit to visit Canton, working down from Holyhead mid-morning and back to Shrewsbury in the evening with a few hours on Canton so even if it doesnt appear before it should still escape occasionally!
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks for that info. That is a big stray. Just getting to Holyhead seems dramatic - but then there is a wheel lathe at Holyhead now. Of course with Canton having a replacement wheel lathe soon (when ?) a working linking both ends of Wales that have wheel lathes is interesting.
Theres a 158 which overnights in Holyhead now too with an early Holyhead to Birmingham service so it having ERTMS sets there will be a continuation of that.
DelW
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2015
- Messages
- 6,036
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I've missed it.
There has been debate about whether the change of the Cambrian main line from 158s to 197s would be a 'big bang' change over a weekend, or staged over a period. A post on the class 398 thread includes a slide showing a three-stage changeover of Cambrian services.
Until Sep 2026: 18 x class 158
Sep - Oct 2026: 10 x class 158 and 8 x class 197 (spare 158s retained)
Oct 2026 - Feb 2027: 6 x class 158 and 12 x class 197 (158s being returned to ROSCO)
Feb 2027 onward: 18 x class 197
This is the first time I've seen this laid out. It's contained within the first attachment of this post (please ignore the summary description) :
www.railforums.co.uk
There has been debate about whether the change of the Cambrian main line from 158s to 197s would be a 'big bang' change over a weekend, or staged over a period. A post on the class 398 thread includes a slide showing a three-stage changeover of Cambrian services.
Until Sep 2026: 18 x class 158
Sep - Oct 2026: 10 x class 158 and 8 x class 197 (spare 158s retained)
Oct 2026 - Feb 2027: 6 x class 158 and 12 x class 197 (158s being returned to ROSCO)
Feb 2027 onward: 18 x class 197
This is the first time I've seen this laid out. It's contained within the first attachment of this post (please ignore the summary description) :
TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
Do you know if they have a bucket and shower screen in the emergency cupboard? I'm not involved in the 398s directly so I can't say for sure; but I would highly doubt it as that info comes from the same user who has repeatedly falsely claimed there are brake issues among other major faults with...
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absolutelymilk
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 1,608
Of the three changes in May 2026, looks like Liverpool - Chester has gone to Liverpool - Llandudno and Manchester Airport - Llandudno has moved to Manchester Airport - Holyhead. However looks like the Chester-Crewe services haven't been extended to Crewe - Wrexham? (apologies if there is another thread this is being discussed in!)
EDIT: looks on RTT like the extension to Wrexham is starting tomorrow?
EDIT: looks on RTT like the extension to Wrexham is starting tomorrow?
The Wrexham extensions are one of the four go-to TfW cancellations while they try to fix fleet reliability.
Seems to be a massive shortage of 197s today - just 39 in service to cover 49 diagrams. Noticed quite a few covered by Sprinters including two Manchester services cWest Wales-Cardiff and then switched to a 197.
Most of the Manchester-South Wales are 2 or 3 cars only. Two of the Pembroke Dock diagrams and most of the Maesteg-Ebbw are Sprinters. Conwy Valley, Ebbw-Newport and Wrexham to Chester all suspended.
Most of the Manchester-South Wales are 2 or 3 cars only. Two of the Pembroke Dock diagrams and most of the Maesteg-Ebbw are Sprinters. Conwy Valley, Ebbw-Newport and Wrexham to Chester all suspended.
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I don`t think it is according to last time I looked at RMT