Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[dosxuk]

Units with long paint warranties will simply get vinyled rather than painted.

 

[physics34]

Units with long paint warranties will simply get vinyled rather than painted.

Id suggest it would be too expensive to do most of them

 

[GoneSouth]

Id suggest it would be too expensive to do most of them

Probably not, this was done everyone a franchise changed anyway so nothing new

 

[Mike Machin]

Probably not, this was done everyone a franchise changed anyway so nothing new

As far as I know, the privately-owned franchise operators funded the re-brands when operators changed. With GBR being a publicly-owned operation, it would be a gross waste of tax-payers money applying new complete branding to rolling stock with existing long paint warranties.

Any public money ring-fenced for the rail industry will need to be spent very carefully, especially when the public finances are so tightly stretched with money needed for health, social needs and most importantly at the moment, defence.

A small vinyl double arrow and a mention of GBR is quite sufficient until stock reaches the end of its existing paint/vinyl wrap warranties.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Id suggest it would be too expensive to do most of them

Would it? i would have expected the design work (different for each class, and indeed each type of carriage within each class) would be the major cost, and that is the same whether you wrap one unit or sixty.

 

[BurtonM]

A small vinyl double arrow and a mention of GBR is quite sufficient

It is anyway, and it's much better than the livery

 

[Goldfish62]

A small vinyl double arrow and a mention of GBR is quite sufficient until stock reaches the end of its existing paint/vinyl wrap warranties.

Yes, and then GBR once it's formed can decide what brand(s) it wants. And hopefully consigns the current GBR livery to the bin of awful has-been liveries.

 

[capital12]

Would it? i would have expected the design work (different for each class, and indeed each type of carriage within each class) would be the major cost, and that is the same whether you wrap one unit or sixty.

I can assure you that the vinyl will cost the most and by a significant amount!

I’m sure I’ve seen quoted that in 2010 costs were around £10k per coach to vinyl.

So for example let’s take SWR’s fleet of 127 Class 450s - each four coaches giving a total of 508 coaches.

At £10k per coach that’s over £5m to vinyl that fleet - no one is being paid £5m to adapt the livery for one class of train! In fact if it cost £50k to adapt it I’d say they’re being ripped off!

 

[vuzzeho]

Would it? i would have expected the design work (different for each class, and indeed each type of carriage within each class) would be the major cost, and that is the same whether you wrap one unit or sixty.

Well that would be one person/a team who's already working on branding and design. They'd be doing design and branding work anyway so it wouldn't be something added but a cost DFTO (then GBR) would be paying anyway. They'd just have another task to work on.

 

[Mike Machin]

In the days when passenger rolling stock was had painted by brush and roller, most coaches and units were repainted every four to five years on average. The paint used in those times simply didn’t have the longevity of modern two-pack spray finishes and vinyl graphic.

Therefor when a complete fleet re-brand was required, it could be achieved relatively quickly without additional expense. For example, when the railways were nationalised in 1948, obviously new deliveries of stock from around 1949 onwards was in the new BR livery, but also most of the existing coaches would have been due for a routine repaint by approximately 1953 or thereabouts, so the livery transformation could be achieved relatively quickly. It was exactly the same with the introduction of blue and grey from the mid 1960s.

Modern vinyl generally has a ten year warranty and many of the new paint warranties are longer, up to around 15 years. Therefore, any re-branding before the end of the warranty period is quite simply an additional expense. For example, South Western Railway has only recently finished the refurbishment programme on its Desiro fleet and these units would not now be scheduled for a repaint until the end of the next decade.

The application of any new GBR livery is likely to be an extremely long drawn out affair and I would consider that an alternative political policy could well be enacted well before the process is even half way completed.

 

[physics34]

In the days when passenger rolling stock was had painted by brush and roller, most coaches and units were repainted every four to five years on average. The paint used in those times simply didn’t have the longevity of modern two-pack spray finishes and vinyl graphic.

Therefor when a complete fleet re-brand was required, it could be achieved relatively quickly without additional expense. For example, when the railways were nationalised in 1948, obviously new deliveries of stock from around 1949 onwards was in the new BR livery, but also most of the existing coaches would have been due for a routine repaint by approximately 1953 or thereabouts, so the livery transformation could be achieved relatively quickly. It was exactly the same with the introduction of blue and grey from the mid 1960s.

Modern vinyl generally has a ten year warranty and many of the new paint warranties are longer, up to around 15 years. Therefore, any re-branding before the end of the warranty period is quite simply an additional expense. For example, South Western Railway has only recently finished the refurbishment programme on its Desiro fleet and these units would not now be scheduled for a repaint until the end of the next decade.

The application of any new GBR livery is likely to be an extremely long drawn out affair and I would consider that an alternative political policy could well be enacted well before the process is even half way completed.

Those units that dont have guarantees now say for example 150s, 156s, 158s and need regular repaints to keep corrosion at bay, will be interesting to see if they get full vinyl, just the base blue paint with vinyls or a full.paint job with all the detail.

 

[Russel]

Those units that dont have guarantees now say for example 150s, 156s, 158s and need regular repaints to keep corrosion at bay, will be interesting to see if they get full vinyl, just the base blue paint with vinyls or a full.paint job with all the detail.

Yeah interesting question, what would be cheapest, a vinyl wrap or an all over blue coat of paint and GBR fleet names?

 

[720144]

According to rtt, GBR 720501+144 are allocated out today on ecs workings, 5Z03 to Liverpool Street, and 5Z04 back to Ilford. Currently says runs as required.

 

[wls1]

delete

 

[contrex]

A small vinyl double arrow and a mention of GBR is quite sufficient until stock reaches the end of its existing paint/vinyl wrap warranties.

You used to see blue and grey Mark 1 LHCS with little NSE logos back in the day

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Therefor when a complete fleet re-brand was required, it could be achieved relatively quickly without additional expense. For example, when the railways were nationalised in 1948, obviously new deliveries of stock from around 1949 onwards was in the new BR livery, but also most of the existing coaches would have been due for a routine repaint by approximately 1953 or thereabouts, so the livery transformation could be achieved relatively quickly.

The application of any new GBR livery is likely to be an extremely long drawn out affair and I would consider that an alternative political policy could well be enacted well before the process is even half way completed.

When BR relented about regional colours in the 1950s, the Southern went crazy painting everything they could back into green, I think.

 

[wls1]

357008 357020 are in East Ham in gbr

 

[442Haz]

357008 357020 are in East Ham in gbr

Oh dear! That variation is terrible the red should be far nearer to the cab front on the side.

 

[43074]

According to rtt, GBR 720501+144 are allocated out today on ecs workings, 5Z03 to Liverpool Street, and 5Z04 back to Ilford. Currently says runs as required.

There's also a 5Z51/5Z52 from East Ham to Liverpool Street so I presume Heidi Alexander will turn up looking for another photo opportunity.

 

[Purple Train]

357008 357020 are in East Ham in gbr

It looks nice although the number placement feels very wrong...

 

[wls1]

It looks nice although the number placement feels very wrong...

There are also numbers at the front along with a GBR logo on the yellow, along with 3 digit unit numbers between the carriages

 

[Class73Electro]

Just curious, know it's not going to happen, but going with the red white blue, who owns the rights to the Network SouthEast livery?

 

[saismee]

5Z03 is now visible in one of the berths at Ilford EMUD. I'll try to get a picture at Liverpool Street if I can.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Just curious, know it's not going to happen, but going with the red white blue, who owns the rights to the Network SouthEast livery?

Can you own the rights to colours?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can you own the rights to colours?

Not really. But you can to the actual livery and logo design.

 

[saismee]

Not really. But you can to the actual livery and logo design.

Though you can trademark colours in certain contexts, like Cadbury purple on chocolate bars.

 

[wls1]

Oh dear! That variation is terrible the red should be far nearer to the cab front on the side.

Agreed, also means the logos are off centre far too far along the carriage as this poor photo shows, saw them out the corner of my eye and panicked for the phone!

Not sure as to why it’s so different from the 387? Considering they are the same design

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Not really. But you can to the actual livery and logo design.

Wasn't there a blue that could only be used by one artist. International Klein Blue (IKB).Developed and patented in 1960 by French artist Yves Klein

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wasn't there a blue that could only be used by one artist. International Klein Blue (IKB).Developed and patented in 1960 by French artist Yves Klein

I think there's also a very black black. But in both cases the thing that is patented is not the colour but the specific means and mechanisms of producing it. You can't get in trouble for making your website vaguely that colour.

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Though you can trademark colours in certain contexts, like Cadbury purple on chocolate bars.

Indeed*, but certainly not the colours of our national flag!

* So the trademark is "a purple chocolate bar". Applying that to something else without an intention to pass off would unlikely be something they wuld win in Court. Indeed West Midlands Trains have done so at Bourneville station, though this could well be with their agreement!

 

[saismee]

5Z03 is now visible in one of the berths at Ilford EMUD. I'll try to get a picture at Liverpool Street if I can.

It's certainly blue.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Agreed, also means the logos are off centre far too far along the carriage as this poor photo shows, saw them out the corner of my eye and panicked for the phone!

Not sure as to why it’s so different from the 387? Considering they are the same design

Good grief, that off centre logo looks like an afterthought and adds to it stinking of ill-thought out design