Class 350/2s to replace 323s on Northern

[ewanh723]

As reported by chime whistle on X this afternoon. The government has agreed to lend all 37 350/2 units to northern they will undergo a £25 Million refresh and begin to enter service in 2027 replacing the 323s

 

[bigmanaiq]

How reliable is this source?

 

[ewanh723]

chime had access to in internal email to northern staff about it so id say pretty reliable. all down to not being able to get spare parts from the 323s

 

[GilfachFargoed]

All being well they will be easier to re-activate than other fleets that have been left in open storage...

 

[TheWalrus]

Will some 323s remain in service and some be used as spares donors? Would be a shame to see them go to waste. Maybe wishful thinking but would be good if they fitted batteries to 350s to enable them to work lines which spend a lot of time under wires like Barrow/Windermere-Manchester for example.

 

[The exile]

Will some 323s remain in service and some be used as spares donors? Would be a shame to see them go to waste. Maybe wishful thinking but would be good if they fitted batteries to 350s to enable them to work lines which spend a lot of time under wires like Barrow/Windermere-Manchester for example.

As they apparently hope to get 4 or 5 into service by the end of next year, some of the 323s will be around for a while yet.

 

[david l]

Will they work when its (according to Northern's criteria) hot?

 

[py_megapixel]

Probably a positive announcement suggestion overall, but is it not a downgrade in capacity if there are 37 350s for only 43 323s? I suspect we might see some double 323 diagrams downgraded to single 350s.

Edit: removed 'announcement' as it's just a random Twitter post and hasn't been formally announced yet

 

[A60stock]

This is very interesting news.

Are the 323s considered life expired?

Are there enough 350s to replace the entire 323s? (3 vs 4 car units - or remove a car to have a like for like 6 car double)

Can a 350 reliably do the same work as what is effectively a metro service? (thinking acceleration, door dwell times, which are slow on those desiros)

I guess this means the 323s are destined for the scrapyard!

 

[37069]

Probably a positive announcement suggestion overall, but is it not a downgrade in capacity if there are 37 350s for only 43 323s? I suspect we might see some double 323 diagrams downgraded to single 350s.

Edit: removed 'announcement' as it's just a random Twitter post and hasn't been formally announced yet

I believe Northern only operates 34 of the 323s, so this would be three additional units overall.

 

[Clarence Yard]

How reliable is this source?

The gen is accurate. It has been a fairly open secret in the industry that the DfT have been wanting to place the 350/2 with Northern and that is where they were heading. Northern declared their hand at industry timetable meetings quite a while ago.

The deal has taken ages to get through Government, not helped by the split of the DfT (some to DfTO) which is further affecting DfT decisions on rolling stock matters.

 

[Nym]

Also not helped by the indecision on what to actually do with the 350/2s before going to Northern.

Will be interesting to see what actually does happen before they find their new home.

 

[Kite159]

And it will be interesting to see if they get will reseated during the refurbishment or will they stay 3+2 with USB sockets added (and new seat covers & carpets etc)

 

[Alder]

And it will be interesting to see if they get will reseated during the refurbishment or will they stay 3+2 with USB sockets added (and new seat covers & carpets etc)

It would look good with the seat type they're using with the 360 refurbishment, but that could be asking for too much!

 

[Liam L]

Probably a positive announcement suggestion overall, but is it not a downgrade in capacity if there are 37 350s for only 43 323s? I suspect we might see some double 323 diagrams downgraded to single 350s.

Edit: removed 'announcement' as it's just a random Twitter post and hasn't been formally announced yet

Northern only have 34 323s.

 

[Starmill]

Can a 350 reliably do the same work as what is effectively a metro service? (thinking acceleration, door dwell times, which are slow on those desiros)

I would think more along the lines of where non-standard four car 20m units can physically be used before worrying about things like that. Especially when it comes to stabling, platform occupancy and sharing rules, and depot space.

No doubt the rosco will be on the hook for some rather pricey signalling alterations. Some for where the trains physically won't fit, some for where the track and platforms need to be moved, and some for where the signal can be viewed adequately from a 323 cab but not a 350 one.

 

[Goldfish62]

How reliable is this source?

It's being reported by Modern Railways.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2026 ==

And it will be interesting to see if they get will reseated during the refurbishment or will they stay 3+2 with USB sockets added (and new seat covers & carpets etc)

Hopefully new seat cushions, not just covers!

 

[swt_passenger]

As reported by chime whistle on X this afternoon. The government has agreed to lend all 37 350/2 units to northern they will undergo a £25 Million refresh and begin to enter service in 2027 replacing the 323s

Don’t you mean the government has agreed for Northern to lease them? They are not the governments property to lend to anyone...

 

[Liam L]

Don’t you mean the government has agreed for Northern to lease them? They are not the governments property to lend to anyone...

Not how it works, Northern went to government with a business case to lease the units from Poterbrook, Now government have agreed.

 

[py_megapixel]

And it will be interesting to see if they get will reseated during the refurbishment or will they stay 3+2 with USB sockets added (and new seat covers & carpets etc)

It would look good with the seat type they're using with the 360 refurbishment, but that could be asking for too much!

They didn't even replace the ancient seats in the Sprinters so I don't think replacing the relatively modern seats in the 350s is particularly likely.

The £25m figure given is actually a bit less than than the £27.6m given for the EMR 360 refurb, and has to stretch to quite a lot more vehicles, so I can't imagine it will be anything approaching the same standard.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not how it works, Northern went to government with a business case to lease the units from Poterbrook, Now government have agreed.

Yes that’s right but the government are still not lending them to anyone.

 

[Russel]

So what happened to Northern absolutely definitely not getting the 350s because they couldn't keep to the current timetables on the 323 routes, as discussed on here repeatedly?

 

[Liam L]

So what happened to Northern absolutely definitely not getting the 350s because they couldn't keep to the current timetables on the 323 routes, as discussed on here repeatedly?

323 parts becoming harder to get, according to the internal email. the aim is to get rid of a fleet which is getting too expensive to maintain.

 

[D365]

It's being reported by Modern Railways.

For the benefit of forum members, I have quoted the article in question:

Northern is to lease the 37x4-car Class 350/2 EMUs currently stored at Long Marston.

The Siemens-built sets, which date from 2008/09, were sent off-lease last year by WM Trains following the introduction of its Class 730 EMUs.

A briefing sent to Northern staff, and seen by Modern Railways, states that prior to entering traffic, some £25 million will be spent on modifications for the units including upgrading the passenger experience through refreshed interiors. The investment comes from Siemens, which built the trains, and Porterbrook which owns them.

Northern has confirmed that the first five units will enter traffic at the end of next year, and they will be used on South Manchester routes, replacing the Class 323s, however, their introduction does not affect the longer-term plan of ordering up to 450 new trains.

Northern told Modern Railways in a statement that it had been exploring the potential introduction of the ‘350s’ as part of its wider fleet strategy. It added: “Alongside our ongoing programme to add up to 450 new trains to the Northern network, we are looking at whether Class 350s could provide additional capacity and help replace some of our oldest electric trains as they reach the end of their working lives.

“Any trains introduced would undergo significant modification and refurbishment before entering service to ensure they meet the needs of our customers and colleagues. This has the potential to improve the customer experience while providing a cost-effective solution for taxpayers.

"We are progressing through some procurement and approval steps with the Department for Transport and HM Treasury. There remains a significant amount of work to do, including further engagement with colleagues and trade union representatives.

“Our aim is to provide a reliable railway for customers, represent good value for money and support the railway’s transition towards Great British Railways. We will continue to engage with colleagues and stakeholders as this work progresses.”

 

[Russel]

323 parts becoming harder to get, according to the internal email. the aim is to get rid of a fleet which is getting too expensive to maintain.

Yeah, the point I was making is there were several posters on here until recently that categorically ruled out the 350/2s going to Northern.

 

[507 001]

This is going to make Northern’s west side fleet deployment very interesting.

 

[Starmill]

Don’t you mean the government has agreed for Northern to lease them? They are not the governments property to lend to anyone...

I think what they're probably trying to get at (without saying it) is that the bank has done a very clever lobbying job persuading the Department to force Northern lease them.

Yeah, the point I was making is there were several posters on here until recently that categorically ruled out the 350/2s going to Northern.

See above. The owners have connections in high places.

 

[The exile]

So what happened to Northern absolutely definitely not getting the 350s because they couldn't keep to the current timetables on the 323 routes, as discussed on here repeatedly?

They can presumably keep to the timetables better than a fleet of 323s all parked up awaiting non-existent spare parts- which is presumably becoming increasingly likely.

 

[py_megapixel]

They can presumably keep to the timetables better than a fleet of 323s all parked up awaiting non-existent spare parts- which is presumably becoming increasingly likely.

And better than the glacially slow 319s - which, not that long ago, Northern was planning on replacing the 323s with.

The same applies to concerns about platform lengths. 350s are the same length as 319s!

 

[Peter0124]

Can platforms currently served by 6x323 fit 8x350?

Or I assume these 350s will be used on primarily 3 car services like Manchester - Hadfield/Crewe/Stoke to become 4 car.