Experiences of service recovery (or lack of) on GTR Great Northern

[saismee]

Presumably it is an issue with the pantograph itself, and they will likely use different models of pantograph. It's not really that far-fetched to think that the 700's one has some flaw that other rolling stock doesn't, is it?

It sounded like damage to many pantographs. If it was a flaw in the design then surely the whole fleet would be affected. Many units have at least one pan isolated at the moment.

7 with both pans isolated (out of service), 20 with one pan isolated, and the rest are fine. My guess would be that they checked units that ran under a specific section of OHLE recently.

 

[westcoaster]

It sounded like damage to many pantographs. If it was a flaw in the design then surely the whole fleet would be affected. Many units have at least one pan isolated at the moment.

7 with both pans isolated (out of service), 20 with one pan isolated, and the rest are fine. My guess would be that they checked units that ran under a specific section of OHLE recently.

I drove 4 FLU' s today all on one pan, all bar one were north end isolated.
Two I also drove yesterday and were fine, also a few RLU's on one pan.

So something must have caused it yesterday afternoon / evening/ night.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder if it was on the mml side. Logic is on GN side other trains use most of the route. On the MML side north of Luton is mainly FLUs.

Was rubbish tonight. Lots of Kings Cross - Letchworth cancelled. The fast Cambridge stopped additionally at WGC (not that they told anyone there)

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if it was on the mml side. Logic is on GN side other trains use most of the route. On the MML side north of Luton is mainly FLUs.

Was rubbish tonight. Lots of Kings Cross - Letchworth cancelled. The fast Cambridge stopped additionally at WGC (not that they told anyone there)

I noticed a few 4 car trains running so assume they're splitting 387s and 379s to try and fill gaps if 700s are out of use?

 

[saismee]

I drove 4 FLU' s today all on one pan, all bar one were north end isolated.
Two I also drove yesterday and were fine, also a few RLU's on one pan.

So something must have caused it yesterday afternoon / evening/ night.

Sounds ongoing actually. 9S-- all cancelled, 9 units out of service, 30 with one pan isolated. It's a mix of 700/0 and 700/1, and the fault "location" is unknown.

 

[MikeWM]

Last night was another total mess on the Fen Line - 1T46 16L at Ely, then 1T48 26L, 1T50 cancel, 1T52 cancel, 1T54 13L, 1T56 cancel, 1T58 34L, 1T60 11L.

1T62 was then apparently run non-stop between Cambridge and Kings Lynn (that's a new one! - I don't think I've ever seen any passenger service pass through Ely without stopping bar LNER diverts...), followed by 3 more cancellations of 1T64, 1T66 and 1T68.

Those that did run were plagued by aircon not working and lots of complaints on Twitter. I was on the (26 late) 1T48 and walked through it for interest. Most of the carriages had one cool-ish end and one very hot end (!).

There was also some issue with the track at Ely briefly, which adds to the litany of infratructure failures around here recently. Not entirely sure what the issue was, but given we've just endured a succession of full all- and part-weekend closures of Ely for track replacement, seems there may be a connection.

 

[Royston Vasey]

With the Brighton-Cambridges cancelled, the interim timetable from Kings Cross consists of 2tph stoppers to Cambridge from P10, and alternating 1tph each to Ely and Kings Lynn from P9, which will later become 2tph to Kings Lynn for the peak.

And I must say, it is running almost impeccably!

 

[tatitiliti]

And I must say, it is running almost impeccably!

The night is still young!

 

[Royston Vasey]

The night is still young!

Well quite! Half hourly Kings Lynns and 12 car trains splitting at Cambridge are in our immediate future!

 

[MikeWM]

Well quite! Half hourly Kings Lynns and 12 car trains splitting at Cambridge are in our immediate future!

Didn't need to wait that long - 1T40 (1524 off KGX) cancelled due to a 'train fault'. The inbound service using that train ran fine, so who knows. (Wouldn't be at all surprised if GN were using 'train fault' when it is actually 'no driver').

 

[Royston Vasey]

Didn't need to wait that long - 1T40 (1524 off KGX) cancelled due to a 'train fault'. The inbound service using that train ran fine, so who knows. (Wouldn't be at all surprised if GN were using 'train fault' when it is actually 'no driver').

Also the 1654 1C80 to Cambridge is being started at Welwyn Garden City "due to train crew being delayed". The ECS from Hornsey to Kings Cross to form it will instead run to Welwyn. People can at least take a Horsham to Peterborough that far.

Other than that, tis but a blip!

 

[saismee]

Didn't need to wait that long - 1T40 (1524 off KGX) cancelled due to a 'train fault'. The inbound service using that train ran fine, so who knows. (Wouldn't be at all surprised if GN were using 'train fault' when it is actually 'no driver').

The problem with delay attribution is when a driver is caught up on a faulty train. We all know it should be "Due to train crew delayed due to disruption" but is it always posted as that?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Now three out of four Kings Lynn trains cancelled leaving the 1718, 1848 and 1948 as the peak service. One of the Cambridge stoppers and a Royston extra also cancelled.

That said, the simpler timetable and diagrams seem to make those isolated cancellations rather than knocking everything out for hours.

I returned from the Midlands today having changed my plans and travelled earlier than planned and I'm so glad I did. West Coast fell apart through the afternoon and remains totally buggered. Great Northern was an oasis of reliability for a few hours.

Over on Greater Anglia, nothing has been more than 2 minutes late arriving at Cambridge all afternoon!

 

[tatitiliti]

Now three out of four Kings Lynn trains cancelled leaving the 1718, 1848 and 1948 as the peak service. One of the Cambridge stoppers and a Royston extra also cancelled.

That said, the simpler timetable smd diagrams seem to make those isolated cancellations rather than knocking everything out for hours.

I returned from the Midlands today having changed my plans and travelled earlier than planned and I'm so glad I did. West Coast fell apart through the afternoon and remains totally buggered. Great Northern was an oasis of reliability for a few hours.

Over on Greater Anglia, nothing has been more than 2 minutes late arriving at Cambridge all afternoon!

WAML has been far more reliable since GA got the new fleet - in fact, WAML and GEML have some of the highest PPMs in the country.

 

[saismee]

WAML has been far more reliable since GA got the new fleet - in fact, WAML and GEML have some of the highest PPMs in the country.

Well, since the teething issues were sorted. Rocky start with the new units as many drivers would tell you.

 

[tatitiliti]

Well, since the teething issues were sorted. Rocky start with the new units as many drivers would tell you.

What were the issues (curious as don’t have experience with the units on that route)?

 

[Failed Unit]

I noticed a few 4 car trains running so assume they're splitting 387s and 379s to try and fill gaps if 700s are out of use?

It is possible seen more 387s on the Cambridge stoppers then normal.

 

[Failed Unit]

With the Brighton-Cambridges cancelled, the interim timetable from Kings Cross consists of 2tph stoppers to Cambridge from P10, and alternating 1tph each to Ely and Kings Lynn from P9, which will later become 2tph to Kings Lynn for the peak.

And I must say, it is running almost impeccably!

Have they extended the Letchworth service to Cambridge.

It didn’t last as later posts show. Couple of 717s failed (one blocking p4 at WGC most of the peak). Most Kings Cross - Letchworth cancelled. Extra stops a WGC not possible with a platform blocked. (Too risky that waiting for P3 would block the mainline).

Another rubbish evening commute.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Have they extended the Letchworth service to Cambridge.

It didn’t last as later posts show. Couple of 717s failed (one blocking p4 at WGC most of the peak). Most Kings Cross - Letchworth cancelled. Extra stops a WGC not possible with a platform blocked. (Too risky that waiting for P3 would block the mainline).

Another rubbish evening commute.

They had done in the afternoon, one or two came in on 2Ls and left on 2Cs. I've no idea if this was normal or always the plan.

 

[jon0844]

The issue is bringing a train in from the fast to platform 3 (e.g. 9xxx or 1Cxx or 1Txx), as if it can't get in for whatever reason then it blocks the mainline. Likewise if a 12 car wants to stop, it fouls the points so if there's a problem with it leaving (door problems, passenger action etc) then you've just lost the fast line until resolved. They DO stop 12 cars there from the down fast into P3 but it's always with a risk.

So the signaller needs to bring the unit onto the slow before Potters Bar, which means having sufficient notice. Plus I don't know which platform the train was blocking (two 717s failed at WGC this evening) so if it was platform 3 then no extra calls could be made without the stopping train being pulled in at PBR as I said - which might mean being caught behind another train. If it was behind the next Moorgate going into the only available platform, it would then have to wait for the Moorgate to arrive and leave (which can be 10 minutes or more). At this point, the stopped train is now significantly delayed for that extra call and might impact its return journey.

Whenever trains fail at WGC it causes major headaches, as does losing the use of the flyover which has happened many times due to points issues. In the peak you are simply going to have to cancel trains as there's just no way to run the timetabled services with or without a delay because the delays will mount up rapidly in no time.

 

[Failed Unit]

The one that was failed there was on P4. Only p3 was in use.

 

[saismee]

What were the issues (curious as don’t have experience with the units on that route)?

Best to ask someone who has first-hand experience, such as @dk1 .

 

[jon0844]

The one that was failed there was on P4. Only p3 was in use.

Thank goodness for that. Many GN inners use P3 in the peaks so that could have been a nightmare, although I can't imagine it was fun even with P4 out.

 

[WeGoAgain]

Thank goodness for that. Many GN inners use P3 in the peaks so that could have been a nightmare, although I can't imagine it was fun even with P4 out.

Although, had a Train failed in Platform 3, they'd have just used Platform 4 for other services...

 

[jon0844]

Although, had a Train failed in Platform 3, they'd have just used Platform 4 for other services...

Yes, but if you want to stop more trains you have to make sure they can get to platform 4, which means the train needs to be on the slow before Potters Bar. If there's a 2Vxx in front, your train now has to queue behind and also wait for the 2Vxx to spin around.

There's really no good scenario, beyond it happening on a Sunday or the middle of the day.

 

[MikeWM]

Now three out of four Kings Lynn trains cancelled leaving the 1718, 1848 and 1948 as the peak service. One of the Cambridge stoppers and a Royston extra also cancelled.

That said, the simpler timetable and diagrams seem to make those isolated cancellations rather than knocking everything out for hours.

The 1648 arrived at Ely on time, then 1T48 13L, 1T50 cancelled, 1T52 cancelled, 1T54 6L, 1T56 cancelled, 1T58 26L, 1T60 58L. I guess it is a consequence of just how bad things have got that this appears to be not too bad when compared to recent days!

The last time 1T48 or 1T50 got to Ely less than 10 minutes late was June 17th - over 3 weeks ago. I do appreciate we're in a very tedious and unprecedented period of unbroken very hot weather, but this is still pretty appalling.

--

And already 1T46 *and* 1T48 are cancelled tonight... ('problem at the depot').

 

[An_Engineer]

And no improvement today. All CBG to Brighton cancelled and it looks like back to back KGX to King's Lynn rush hour cancellations due to "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time". They're struggling with both their 700 fleet and their 379/387 fleets?

 

[MikeWM]

And no improvement today. All CBG to Brighton cancelled and it looks like back to back KGX to King's Lynn rush hour cancellations due to "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time". They're struggling with both their 700 fleet and their 379/387 fleets?

Over the last couple of weeks, the 379s seem to be starting the day ok and failing from mid-afternoon onwards. Given the number of reports on twitter of faulty air-con - and having experienced some of that myself earlier in the week - I wonder if some the trains are just getting far too hot as the day progresses and they're having to be pulled from service?

 

[MikeWM]

The last time 1T48 or 1T50 got to Ely less than 10 minutes late was June 17th - over 3 weeks ago. I do appreciate we're in a very tedious and unprecedented period of unbroken very hot weather, but this is still pretty appalling.

And tonight keeps that record going - 1T48 cancelled; 1T50 got to Ely 45 late and was terminated there. 1T52 was 10 late at Ely (overtook 1T50 at Cambridge!) then appears to have waited at Ely to pick up those being thrown off 1T50 - giving a 2hr 20min gap in services to Kings Lynn in the evening peak with 1T46 having also been cancelled throughout. 1T54 was almost on time so there was then a second service to KLN just a few minutes later (!). Another great day for the Fen Line.

 

[Intercity_225]

1T50 got to Ely 45 late and was terminated there.

What is actually causing these trains to get so late?