• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

National Express Coaches Discussion

Smethwickian

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2011
Messages
739
Location
Errr, Smethwick!
Looks like the London to Bristol 040 disappears after September. Any idea if this is a timetabling issue or is actually real?
Highly unlikely to be true and extremely surprising if it is. Far more likely the 040 services are simply not planned and open for booking more than a few weeks hence. There are so many timetable changes on NX now, month after month, it is becoming extremely hard to reliably book more than a few weeks ahead without later getting an email to say your journey has changed, or the departure cancelled.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

nick291

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2024
Messages
442
Location
Bristol
Seems to be a common thing of theirs. The funny thing is Flixbus don't have enough journeys yet to overtake NatEx, and most of the Flix trips start/extend beyond Bristol so there's not nearly as much dedicated Bristol to London capacity. This is very much NX throwing in the towel early.

I will say though if NX are making such large cuts though, that First and Flix would be extremely grateful if stand 6 and 7 at Bristol Bus Station were released by NX.

If I were Edwards Coaches Id be getting all those Levantes rebadged to Voyagers and painted green. That's if they care for keeping their intercity side of the business.
Edwards are the only operator that could probably run an independent intercity coaching business that I can see, but if all else fails then I definitely see them taking on Flix work at a large scale!
 

j_walker1804

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2016
Messages
52
Location
Zone 6
Stagecoach Yorkshire cease NX ops from 17th Oct.
Bruce Coaches take over a 131 diagram from 13th July which is currently operated by them.
(0930 ex Birmingham and 1430(?) return).

There’s a strong rumour that Go North East are next for the cull with NX as they aren’t happy with the GoAhead group having as much FlixBus work as they’ve got and the fact they’re apparently starting Flix out of Riverside later this year.

This info is from internal matters/ discussions at NX and I’m unable to provide my exact source in writing for it.
Apologies if that breaks forum rules.
 

Parebunks

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2022
Messages
322
Location
Manchester/Oxford
Highly unlikely to be true and extremely surprising if it is. Far more likely the 040 services are simply not planned and open for booking more than a few weeks hence. There are so many timetable changes on NX now, month after month, it is becoming extremely hard to reliably book more than a few weeks ahead without later getting an email to say your journey has changed, or the departure cancelled.
Minded to agree on this - the 040 is pretty clearly NX's strongest corridor and going from every 30 minutes to nothing in one go would more-or-less mark the end of NX as a going concern IMO. Only way I could see it happening is if Edwards went over to Flix, but given they have every other Bristol/Wales/South West service as well you'd expect to see the Heathrow and Birmingham routes off the booking engine completely as well.
Stagecoach Yorkshire cease NX ops from 17th Oct.
Bruce Coaches take over a 131 diagram from 13th July which is currently operated by them.
(0930 ex Birmingham and 1430(?) return).
Apart from this diagram is Stagecoach Yorkshire just on the 560/564? Whether they try and get a replacement on Sheffield-London might be an interesting indication of how much fight NX has left, though find it slightly harder to see the Halifax extension continuing sadly.
There’s a strong rumour that Go North East are next for the cull with NX as they aren’t happy with the GoAhead group having as much FlixBus work as they’ve got and the fact they’re apparently starting Flix out of Riverside later this year.
Seems rather foolish from NX if this is the case, with the current state of their operation they're hardly in a position to be prescriptive in this way. Are there any other Go-Ahead companies still on NX aside from Oxford Bus? Can't keep track of which with 'independent-sounding' names are actually Go-Ahead.
 

nick291

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2024
Messages
442
Location
Bristol
Seems rather foolish from NX if this is the case, with the current state of their operation they're hardly in a position to be prescriptive in this way. Are there any other Go-Ahead companies still on NX aside from Oxford Bus? Can't keep track of which with 'independent-sounding' names are actually Go-Ahead.
My understanding is that it's only Plymouth Citycoach/Dartline that has Flix work currently? So I'm not quite sure why NX are throwing a fit over what seems to be a non issue.
 

j_walker1804

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2016
Messages
52
Location
Zone 6
My understanding is that it's only Plymouth Citycoach/Dartline that has Flix work currently? So I'm not quite sure why NX are throwing a fit over what seems to be a non issue.
Brighton & Hove (Spirit of Sussex) and Go South Coast.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Apart from this diagram is Stagecoach Yorkshire just on the 560/564? Whether they try and get a replacement on Sheffield-London might be an interesting indication of how much fight NX has left, though find it slightly harder to see the Halifax extension continuing sadly.

131/134/465/466/560/564.

I’d imagine they’ll be an incorporated by the 426/561 on the London services.

436 is potentially to be chopped shortly too with no replacement which will end the night service to the NE. 598 at capacity most nights but only serves Darlington, Durham & Newcastle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Seems rather foolish from NX if this is the case, with the current state of their operation they're hardly in a position to be prescriptive in this way. Are there any other Go-Ahead companies still on NX aside from Oxford Bus? Can't keep track of which with 'independent-sounding' names are actually Go-Ahead.

Oxford Bus Company, East Yorks Motor Services & Go North East are the GAG subsidiaries currently on NX.
 
Last edited:

Parebunks

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2022
Messages
322
Location
Manchester/Oxford
131/134/465/466/560/564.

I’d imagine they’ll be an incorporated by the 426/561 on the London services.

436 is potentially to be chopped shortly too with no replacement which will end the night service to the NE. 598 at capacity most nights but only serves Darlington, Durham & Newcastle.
Wouldn't be a great shift for Leeds/NE passengers, Sheffield's less of a diversion than some cities but still reduces competitiveness with Flix. More reasonable than London to Bristol with a change at Heathrow though!
Quite grim if NX do cut the 436, it's the sort of route that really should be doing decently well.
Oxford Bus Company, East Yorks Motor Services & Go North East are the GAG subsidiaries currently on NX.
Thanks - not sure about EYMS but find it hard to imagine NX removing OBC from the network, they could easily pivot to operating the 737 as part of the Airline with NX the only real loser in that scenario.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,592
Minded to agree on this - the 040 is pretty clearly NX's strongest corridor and going from every 30 minutes to nothing in one go would more-or-less mark the end of NX as a going concern IMO. Only way I could see it happening is if Edwards went over to Flix, but given they have every other Bristol/Wales/South West service as well you'd expect to see the Heathrow and Birmingham routes off the booking engine completely as well.

Apart from this diagram is Stagecoach Yorkshire just on the 560/564? Whether they try and get a replacement on Sheffield-London might be an interesting indication of how much fight NX has left, though find it slightly harder to see the Halifax extension continuing sadly.

Seems rather foolish from NX if this is the case, with the current state of their operation they're hardly in a position to be prescriptive in this way. Are there any other Go-Ahead companies still on NX aside from Oxford Bus? Can't keep track of which with 'independent-sounding' names are actually Go-Ahead.
East Yorkshire still run NX work

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Wouldn't be a great shift for Leeds/NE passengers, Sheffield's less of a diversion than some cities but still reduces competitiveness with Flix. More reasonable than London to Bristol with a change at Heathrow though!
Quite grim if NX do cut the 436, it's the sort of route that really should be doing decently well.

Thanks - not sure about EYMS but find it hard to imagine NX removing OBC from the network, they could easily pivot to operating the 737 as part of the Airline with NX the only real loser in that scenario.
Most of the work EY has starts and ends in Hull so it's hard to see who else could run it
 

JD2168

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
1,707
Location
Sheffield
Stagecoach Yorkshire cease NX ops from 17th Oct.
Bruce Coaches take over a 131 diagram from 13th July which is currently operated by them.
(0930 ex Birmingham and 1430(?) return).

There’s a strong rumour that Go North East are next for the cull with NX as they aren’t happy with the GoAhead group having as much FlixBus work as they’ve got and the fact they’re apparently starting Flix out of Riverside later this year.

This info is from internal matters/ discussions at NX and I’m unable to provide my exact source in writing for it.
Apologies if that breaks forum rules.

End of an era for Stagecoach Yorkshire as this work dates back to Yorkshire Traction days & is the only National Express work Stagecoach do
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,253
End of an era for Stagecoach Yorkshire as this work dates back to Yorkshire Traction days & is the only National Express work Stagecoach do
Still using 67-registration Levante 2s on some workings alongside 19-registration Levante 3s so assume that there is an element of needing fleet renewal, like the issue that killed off Megabus.
 

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
5,090
Location
Great Britain
Seems rather foolish from NX if this is the case, with the current state of their operation they're hardly in a position to be prescriptive in this way. Are there any other Go-Ahead companies still on NX aside from Oxford Bus? Can't keep track of which with 'independent-sounding' names are actually Go-Ahead.
East Yorkshire and Oxford Bus still do NatEx work and there were rumours or plans for Fourways to start doing some too.

Thanks - not sure about EYMS but find it hard to imagine NX removing OBC from the network, they could easily pivot to operating the 737 as part of the Airline with NX the only real loser in that scenario.
Your suggestion wouldn't work as Luton and Stansted are both under stupid concession agreements to prevent other companies running buses there. So Oxford Airline would only actually get as far as Luton Airport Parkway (like Flixbus) and somewhere outside Stansted Airport.

Most of the work EY has starts and ends in Hull so it's hard to see who else could run it
How much of that though is because of where the operator is based so it's just a dead mileage thing rather than that being where the demand is?
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,050
Location
Reston City Centre
End of an era for Stagecoach Yorkshire as this work dates back to Yorkshire Traction days & is the only National Express work Stagecoach do

In fairness, they may not keep their South Yorkshire operations much longer, given franchising, and I don't know whether "non People's Network" stuff can be run from SYPN owned depots

It might be a case of get out now, with this on the horizon

(Unless National Express services are run from Chesterfield, but that's a whole other kettle of fish... electric fish)
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,592
East Yorkshire and Oxford Bus still do NatEx work and there were rumours or plans for Fourways to start doing some too.


Your suggestion wouldn't work as Luton and Stansted are both under stupid concession agreements to prevent other companies running buses there. So Oxford Airline would only actually get as far as Luton Airport Parkway (like Flixbus) and somewhere outside Stansted Airport.


How much of that though is because of where the operator is based so it's just a dead mileage thing rather than that being where the demand is?
We do carry a few passengers from Hull, it varies from day to day but do get a lot between Hull and Lincoln and Hull and Leeds
 

Volvodart

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2010
Messages
2,929
Highly unlikely to be true and extremely surprising if it is. Far more likely the 040 services are simply not planned and open for booking more than a few weeks hence. There are so many timetable changes on NX now, month after month, it is becoming extremely hard to reliably book more than a few weeks ahead without later getting an email to say your journey has changed, or the departure cancelled.

There appears to be at least an hourly service bookable now, unsure if that is it, or if more will be added.
 

WelshBluebird

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2010
Messages
5,576
There appears to be at least an hourly service bookable now, unsure if that is it, or if more will be added.
So just someone messed up then? Thank god for that.

Does raise the question why their customer service response fanned the flames of this instead of reassuring people - they were basically just saying the website was right and they reevaluate their routes all the time.

I appreciate they are probably overworked and underpaid as most customer service roles are these days - if a human is involved at all, but defo feels like a bit of an own goal!
 

Smethwickian

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2011
Messages
739
Location
Errr, Smethwick!
So just someone messed up then? Thank god for that.

Does raise the question why their customer service response fanned the flames of this instead of reassuring people - they were basically just saying the website was right and they reevaluate their routes all the time.

I appreciate they are probably overworked and underpaid as most customer service roles are these days - if a human is involved at all, but defo feels like a bit of an own goal!
040 issue confirmed as a technical problem. Bookings should now all be showing correctly on journey planner post-6 September although the timetable page has yet to update.
 

cambsy

On Moderation
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Messages
1,107
I have just looked at whats available to book Bristol-London in late October and Jan 2027, and from what can see it looks pretty much normal, with no changes at Heathrow or more expensive fares, so doesn’t look like Nat Ex is throwing in the towel on Bristol-London M4 corridor. I know this could just be automatic booking window and not mean the services will run, and things wont change before then, but it doesn’t look like there are massive changes on this route in the near future.
 

asb

Member
Joined
17 Jan 2011
Messages
108
In fairness, they may not keep their South Yorkshire operations much longer, given franchising, and I don't know whether "non People's Network" stuff can be run from SYPN owned depots

It might be a case of get out now, with this on the horizon

(Unless National Express services are run from Chesterfield, but that's a whole other kettle of fish... electric fish)
They certainly used to be run from Chesterfield
 

Sealink

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2006
Messages
865
Location
Bridport
Excuse me but what are NatEx smoking to even think that is remotely a good idea? Self sabotage at it's finest.

I'd say that they are putting their eggs in the airport services basket. If they are having to charge as little as £2.30 (Bristol to London) with a coach card, I'd be looking for a different market to serve.
 
Last edited:

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
Had a look at the timetables and noticed a few changes. Service 111 from Swansea to Birmingham runs via Bristol and there is a 205 Birmingham to Bideford service.
 

JD2168

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
1,707
Location
Sheffield
In fairness, they may not keep their South Yorkshire operations much longer, given franchising, and I don't know whether "non People's Network" stuff can be run from SYPN owned depots

It might be a case of get out now, with this on the horizon

(Unless National Express services are run from Chesterfield, but that's a whole other kettle of fish... electric fish)

Stagecoach run the National Express work from Stonegravels depot at Chesterfield
 

ADB125

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2023
Messages
29
Location
Huddersfield
I notice the Birmingham - South Wales services have been mostly removed. Just the 112 left and a single journey on the 111 (2 at weekends) which now goes via Bristol extending the journey time as mentioned above. I'd have thought this would be a route they could compete with the train as the journey time is only about 40 minutes longer and there are good onwards connections to/from Digbeth...I know Flixbus do run this route but most of their services go via Bristol so not exactly attractive in terms of journey time.

There seems to have been some reductions on the Birmingham to Leeds routes too compared to a few months back, aswell as a number of London services like the 401, 403, 440, 450, 560. Overall NX definitely seem to be cutting back except on the airport services as others have mentioned.
 

nick291

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2024
Messages
442
Location
Bristol
Had a look at the timetables and noticed a few changes. Service 111 from Swansea to Birmingham runs via Bristol and there is a 205 Birmingham to Bideford service.
That has to serve Bristol Airport for it to be numbered in the 2XX series of routes right?
 

Ballyheigue

Member
Joined
11 Sep 2025
Messages
313
Location
Leeds
Stagecoach Yorkshire cease NX ops from 17th Oct.
Bruce Coaches take over a 131 diagram from 13th July which is currently operated by them.
(0930 ex Birmingham and 1430(?) return).

There’s a strong rumour that Go North East are next for the cull with NX as they aren’t happy with the GoAhead group having as much FlixBus work as they’ve got and the fact they’re apparently starting Flix out of Riverside later this year.

This info is from internal matters/ discussions at NX and I’m unable to provide my exact source in writing for it.
Apologies if that breaks forum rules.
Ah, so this may be why the 19.30 from Birmingham to Derby, Leeds and Bradford has been axed, seems a shame really as the one after gets into Leeds too late and the one before is a bit too early from Birmingham, wasn't badly used when I've used it although has been a bit light when it's got to Leeds.
 

M803UYA

Member
Joined
24 May 2020
Messages
703
Location
Under my stone....
Stagecoach Yorkshire cease NX ops from 17th Oct.
Bruce Coaches take over a 131 diagram from 13th July which is currently operated by them.
(0930 ex Birmingham and 1430(?) return).

There’s a strong rumour that Go North East are next for the cull with NX as they aren’t happy with the GoAhead group having as much FlixBus work as they’ve got and the fact they’re apparently starting Flix out of Riverside later this year.

This info is from internal matters/ discussions at NX and I’m unable to provide my exact source in writing for it.
Apologies if that breaks forum rules.
Speaking from my previous industry experience where the operator I worked at ran National Express (two routes, fifteen PVR until their in house operation swiped one of them with their connivance) if a contractor is working for 'opposition' such as Megabus that would result in the end of any contracts with National Express/NX.

NX would be rather stringent on use of non liveried vehicles, issuing fines as needed. A driver could complete their journey envelope incorrectly and that'd also result in a fine. Coach too old.

After we'd had our vehicle requirement cut in half by NX we wanted to take on megabus diagrams. Megabus were keen for us to do so - NX were not. So, we were lumbered with a load of Levante's that were five to six years old with no alternate workload. This was the cause of the downfall of the company - six years before it went bust. It looked to it's bus network to replace the lost turnover. It went down from £23m to £18m very quickly - those two NX routes bankrolled the business. We used to make money on NX in spite of NX.

NX might not have the clout they once had before the green monster invasion but if they want an operator off the network, it's not too hard. They did this to South Gloucestershire who'd repeatedly operate coaches over age on their diagrams, would use them on non NX work such as schools (hence all those NX/AAA plated Levantes to hide the age) who promptly trundled off to lots of megabus work. That ended well as it gave Stagecoach a Bristol depot plus the work.

If Go North East are coming off, then that'll mean replacement Flixbus work. No doubt East Yorkshire would follow suit. Normally I'd say that'd end their coach operations but they've been busy buying those up.

Hopefully that adds something to your post.
 
Last edited:

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
5,090
Location
Great Britain
I'd have thought this would be a route they could compete with the train as the journey time is only about 40 minutes longer and there are good onwards connections to/from Digbeth...I know Flixbus do run this route but most of their services go via Bristol so not exactly attractive in terms of journey time.
With Cross Countrys Birmingham to Cardiff route being as unreliable as it is, surely this would be the perfect time to be promoting this route and offering a viable alternative but clearly not. This 'fast' routing was always what gave NX the edge over Megabus and now more recently Flixbus, because both of those operators ran most of their buses via Bristol and were slower. Hopefully Flixbus jumps in to fill the void here as they have at least 3 Birmingham - South Wales & vice versa duties which spend more than half of their day parked up in the depot or on excessive amounts of layover. You can easily squeeze another trip out of the vehicles but you'd need more drivers.

Speaking from my previous industry experience where the operator I worked at ran National Express (two routes, fifteen PVR until their in house operation swiped one of them with their connivance) if a contractor is working for 'opposition' such as Megabus that would result in the end of any contracts with National Express/NX.
Chalfont still work for both NX and Flixbus but out of different depots. Stotts I am sure used to do NatEx and Megabus. Stagecoach Yorkshire used to run both Megabus and National Express albeit out of Chesterfield for NatEx and Woolley Edge for Megabus. There has been a history of operators working for both NX and other intercity operators, so it's interesting that NX seem to have one rule for one, and another rule for other operators.
 

nick291

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2024
Messages
442
Location
Bristol
If Go North East are coming off, then that'll mean replacement Flixbus work. No doubt East Yorkshire would follow suit. Normally I'd say that'd end their coach operaations but they've been busy buying those up.

Hopefully that adds something to your post.
That's the thing I don't think National Express seem to understand, is that replacement work is now readily available for OpCo's that it decides to take off the network. Whether that be Flix, Rail Replacement etc
 

route101

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,243
I think in a few years, the coach network will be mostly routes on Motorways linking the big cities.
 

Top