Hopefully they'll take advantage of franchising to have some later departures.
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National Express Coaches Discussion
- Thread starter cnjb8
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Midnight us usually plenty late enough for me (although perhaps not so much for the young people who used to use the N10.
Traipsing over to the bus/coach station also has to be factored in.
Hopefully.
National Express has been around for over 50 years in the UK, and is a household name. Im not sure where you get the idea tourists use them as default. Like with trains people will use the company based on where they are going. I used Flixbus earlier this year as National Express didn't have a services running to where I live at the time i wanted it
I think you might be misunderstanding what @Bletchleyite is saying. I am under the impression that they're saying that Flix is a global brand hence why tourists use them as default. I find the fares on Flix to be somewhat cheaper than NatEx so that can swing a coach journey for me.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
markymark2000
On Moderation
And that is where I think NX have kept going wrong. They seem to forget that the market is so price sensitive. And yet out of Chester, almost all fares were higher than the train, slower than the train, and less frequent. And they wondered why no one used them and instead chose Flixbus. Well I wonder... What a mystery to us all.
NatEx head office staff need to get their heads out of the clouds and rejoin us on planet earth else the company will be gone in a few years and they will all be without a job, or joining the merry go round of failing management.
buslad1988
Member
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2018
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- 650
Similar situation with open top tours - usually tourists go for City Sightseeing / Big Bus as you see them all over the world.
Martin1988
Member
National Express look to be cutting back services from Bristol with reductions to the 040 (Bristol to London) timetable and changes to the Cross Country services including Bristol Airport and the overnight 106 from Penzance-Birmingham-Penzance getting dropped and journeys between Bristol and Birmingham starting later and finishing earlier during the week.
Does anyone know what is going on with National Express at the moment as the emphasis seems to be on reducing rather than expanding services.
Does anyone know what is going on with National Express at the moment as the emphasis seems to be on reducing rather than expanding services.
My guess is increased competition from the railways/flixbus and NatEx is acting accordingly. I'm not sure why they fear Flixbus so much tbh, competition can be healthy if done right. Bristol-London is a competitive corridor so really not sure why or what is changing.
I have just done dummy booking Exeter-Birmingham for 30th July, and indeed the 03.15 Exeter-Birmingham and 21.30 Birmingham-Exeter aren’t running, and Exeter- vv down to 2 services a day, which worse ever seen and really poor from National Express. the contractor on these services is mainly Edward’s Coaches, so with the drop in services are Edward’s out of pocket and excessive coaches now?. If this is happening over a number of routes then National Express are in decline, and do need someone to come in and sort out how to fight back against FlixBus, or they will in due course end up not existing anymore or bought out by another major coach operator etc who might then hopefully rebuild them.
I have also noticed that FlixBus have upped their prices Exeter-London and vv, to £25.99, for summer period, which put me off using coach to London for cheap day out from Exeter.
I have also noticed that FlixBus have upped their prices Exeter-London and vv, to £25.99, for summer period, which put me off using coach to London for cheap day out from Exeter.
Cesarcollie
Member
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- 5 Jun 2016
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- 820
Flixbus are losing a fortune. it’s very difficult to compete with anyone prepared to lose a fortune unless you can afford/are prepared to do the same!
tram21
Established Member
What evidence is there for this? And why are they, because they hope it'll eventually become profitable?
Economic theory would suggest that if Flixbus can put National Express out of business, and there are sufficient barriers to entry for any other operator, they will have a monopoly on coach travel and can charge for their services accordingly, noting that there are some markets without much rail competition.
Stan Drews
Established Member
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- 5 Jun 2013
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- 2,139
Are they?
Just idle gossip or do you have sight of their route costings?
Cesarcollie
Member
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- 5 Jun 2016
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- 820
I stand corrected. Companies House shows a small profit in 2024 after a loss in 2023. 2025 UK accounts not yet filed.
gingerheid
Established Member
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Their last UK accounts show a profit, though this was before the big expansion.
If I compare their local performance to National Express then they do seem to have the magic touch, in a kind of Ryanair way. I never used the National Express service because the timings weren't good and it was too slow and cost too much (however when I have used National Express their vehicles were cleaner and they didn't have an annoying seat reservation policy). The Flixbus service is faster and busier. From what I can see the coach appears to generate revenue of £430 in the first three hours of the working day (after being driven about 30 mins dead to the start point). I don't know if that's enough, but it's better than what National express was achieving before they gave up, even when they didn't have competition.
So as much as I may not like how they do things, it seems to work in exactly the same way as next week I fly away on holiday with Ryanair, despite not liking them either. For that I would have taken National Express to the airport, but unfortunately they've stopped the journey at the time I need (and Flix don't serve that route)
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They probably don't think it's a small profit. They've made a profit of £1.1m and paid £1.5m to the group in fees. On turnover of £31m, and in what is effectively a new and fast growing company, I'd say that's really good.
My question is were the coach operators also making profits, because if this was achieved at their expense then that's what could make it unsustainable. Either way though... better than National Express!
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I'd definitely say ones ran by larger groups(i.e First, Go Ahead Dartline) are, even if that's made up from other revenue sourcesTheir last UK accounts show a profit, though this was before the big expansion.
If I compare their local performance to National Express then they do seem to have the magic touch, in a kind of Ryanair way. I never used the National Express service because the timings weren't good and it was too slow and cost too much (however when I have used National Express their vehicles were cleaner and they didn't have an annoying seat reservation policy). The Flixbus service is faster and busier. From what I can see the coach appears to generate revenue of £430 in the first three hours of the working day (after being driven about 30 mins dead to the start point). I don't know if that's enough, but it's better than what National express was achieving before they gave up, even when they didn't have competition.
So as much as I may not like how they do things, it seems to work in exactly the same way as next week I fly away on holiday with Ryanair, despite not liking them either. For that I would have taken National Express to the airport, but unfortunately they've stopped the journey at the time I need (and Flix don't serve that route)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
They probably don't think it's a small profit. They've made a profit of £1.1m and paid £1.5m to the group in fees. On turnover of £31m, and in what is effectively a new and fast growing company, I'd say that's really good.
My question is were the coach operators also making profits, because if this was achieved at their expense then that's what could make it unsustainable. Either way though... better than National Express!
Ballyheigue
Member
I think National Express need to take a different approach marketing wise, cleaner vehicles than Flixbus, walk up fares in some cases (I missed my coach from Leeds to Birmingham one Saturday but was very surprised that I could buy a ticket for the next one an hour later at just £12, I expected it to be nearer £20) no reservations needed and more importantly, staff on site at many of it's own bus stations to sort you out when things go wrong. I would never want to use Flixbus no matter how cheap they are for that last reason alone, I'd rather pay more to ensure there is someone on site who can tell me exactly where the coach is, and what to do should it not turn up, I have heard that Flixbus can be very hard to contact should things go wrong.
The thing is as well, National Express are competing with the train in a lot of cases with a better product, so I don't understand why they're not going after train companies. Take Leeds to Birmingham for example, you'd pay a lot more for a walk up fare on Cross Country, it's not a nice experience in many cases (hard seats, crowded trains etc) you are at risk of your luggage being stolen nowadays unless you manage to bag the seats nearest the racks, and it only saves you around an hour compared to National Express. Why risk an expensive uncomfortable crowded sometimes smelly journey on an old train, where your luggage is at risk of damage or theft if you can't sit near it just to save an hour?
The thing is as well, National Express are competing with the train in a lot of cases with a better product, so I don't understand why they're not going after train companies. Take Leeds to Birmingham for example, you'd pay a lot more for a walk up fare on Cross Country, it's not a nice experience in many cases (hard seats, crowded trains etc) you are at risk of your luggage being stolen nowadays unless you manage to bag the seats nearest the racks, and it only saves you around an hour compared to National Express. Why risk an expensive uncomfortable crowded sometimes smelly journey on an old train, where your luggage is at risk of damage or theft if you can't sit near it just to save an hour?
Equally on a coach your luggage is in the compartment under the coach away from your seat so I am not sure there is zero risk of damage or theft either.
The journey times on the coach between Bristol and Birmingham are comparable to the train and fares are almost always cheaper than Cross Country. Barmy how they are not marketing this to their advantage.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Why bother competing though when the inevitable will happen anyway? If NatEx makes 2030, I'll be surprised. 90% of their timetable changes since the COVID relaunch has been cut, cut, cut and throwing prices higher.
WelshBluebird
Established Member
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Looks like the London to Bristol 040 disappears after September. Any idea if this is a timetabling issue or is actually real?
If ifs real it seems to be a case of self destruction surely? The m4 corridor route is one of the most competitive they have with rail, and every time I travel the coaches are full often needing dupes.
Ah just saw the message from the other day. But looking on their website its a compete abandonment of the 040, with every journey requiring a change at Heathrow. Madness if that is the case and a very sad day for affordable travel given the high cost of the train and that we had strong competition with affordable fares only a couple of years ago.
If ifs real it seems to be a case of self destruction surely? The m4 corridor route is one of the most competitive they have with rail, and every time I travel the coaches are full often needing dupes.
Ah just saw the message from the other day. But looking on their website its a compete abandonment of the 040, with every journey requiring a change at Heathrow. Madness if that is the case and a very sad day for affordable travel given the high cost of the train and that we had strong competition with affordable fares only a couple of years ago.
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I don't have this info first hand but was just reading on another forum that almost all Bristol - London coaches will now require a change at Heathrow. Perhaps a single coach a day going direct.
I haven't used Flixbus extensively, but have generally had a reasonable experience. Their service to London is pretty regular and generally seems to be cheaper than National Express. I can't fathom why anyone would now use National Express via Heathrow - more expensive and taking an hour longer.
Excuse me but what are NatEx smoking to even think that is remotely a good idea? Self sabotage at it's finest.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Seems to be a common thing of theirs. The funny thing is Flixbus don't have enough journeys yet to overtake NatEx, and most of the Flix trips start/extend beyond Bristol so there's not nearly as much dedicated Bristol to London capacity. This is very much NX throwing in the towel early.
I will say though if NX are making such large cuts though, that First and Flix would be extremely grateful if stand 6 and 7 at Bristol Bus Station were released by NX.
If I were Edwards Coaches Id be getting all those Levantes rebadged to Voyagers and painted green. That's if they care for keeping their intercity side of the business.
Just put in a hypothetical journey in the app and it's showing 1 change between Bristol and London. 200/201/202 onto the 032 at Heathrow Central. I really hope strong words are had in a no tea and biscuits meeting with whoever thought that was a good idea.