Transdev Blazefield

[YorkRailFan]

I have seen photos of an unregistered all-white B8L demo at Malton depot. Apparently was out this afternoon across the Coastliner area testing clearances etc

Interesting. I wonder if Transdev goes for them, and decides to have them only for Scarborough runs and perhaps for 840s that terminate short in Thornton-le-Dale. That does bring some complexity for the Whitby runs needing the Geminis exclusively (or something else if Transdev orders another build) but simply removing Goathland (the Main hindrance for B8Ls on the 840s to Whitby) from the equation only shifts the problem to someone else (North Yorkshire Council) to provide a bus service to the village. A tricky problem with no easy solution.

 

[Russel]

Interesting. I wonder if Transdev goes for them, and decides to have them only for Scarborough runs and perhaps for 840s that terminate short in Thornton-le-Dale. That does bring some complexity for the Whitby runs needing the Geminis exclusively (or something else if Transdev orders another build) but simply removing Goathland (the Main hindrance for B8Ls on the 840s to Whitby) from the equation only shifts the problem to someone else (North Yorkshire Council) to provide a bus service to the village. A tricky problem with no easy solution.

What issues are there with putting B8L's on the 840?

 

[BradK2017]

Doesn't the B8L Evoseti comes in a 12m variant? That should be able to get around Goathland as the Eclipses of similar length manage it.

 

[YorkRailFan]

What issues are there with putting B8L's on the 840?

Grounding in Goathland as well as turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel.

Doesn't the B8L Evoseti comes in a 12m variant? That should be able to get around Goathland as the Eclipses of similar length manage it.

12.0m and 12.8m are available as options. I believe the Wrightbus Geminis came in 10m and 11.5m variants so slightly shorter than the B8L EvoSeti.

 

[BradK2017]

Grounding in Goathland as well as turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel.

12.0m and 12.8m are available as options. I believe the Wrightbus Geminis came in 10m and 11.5m variants so slightly shorter than the B8L EvoSeti.

The Eclipse 2 single deckers that manage Goathland are 11.8m so the 12m variant could be able to it.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Grounding in Goathland as well as turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel.

12.0m and 12.8m are available as options. I believe the Wrightbus Geminis came in 10m and 11.5m variants so slightly shorter than the B8L EvoSeti.

Do you know this for sure or are you assuming?

 

[JD2168]

Grounding in Goathland as well as turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel.

With regards grounding couldn’t ordering them with the Ferry lift equipped solve this potential issue?

 

[Bwsbro]

Grounding in Goathland as well as turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel.

12.0m and 12.8m are available as options. I believe the Wrightbus Geminis came in 10m and 11.5m variants so slightly shorter than the B8L EvoSeti.

Simple solution would be what Transdev have wanted to do for years and get rid of the 840. You could easily run the 843 as normal to Scarborough and get passengers for the 840 to change at Malton, and run single deck buses to Goathland or Whitby

 

[Russel]

Simple solution would be what Transdev have wanted to do for years and get rid of the 840.

Have they?

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You could easily run the 843 as normal to Scarborough and get passengers for the 840 to change at Malton, and run single deck buses to Goathland or Whitby

That's one way to kill a route off.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Simple solution would be what Transdev have wanted to do for years and get rid of the 840. You could easily run the 843 as normal to Scarborough and get passengers for the 840 to change at Malton, and run single deck buses to Goathland or Whitby

I may be missing something but if they have wanted to get rid of the 840 why haven’t they?

 

[Russel]

I may be missing something but if they have wanted to get rid of the 840 why haven’t they?

Or they would just make it summer only, which I presume is when it makes the most revenue.

 

[Deerfold]

Simple solution would be what Transdev have wanted to do for years and get rid of the 840. You could easily run the 843 as normal to Scarborough and get passengers for the 840 to change at Malton, and run single deck buses to Goathland or Whitby

On a good day there's capacity problems boarding at Whitby with double deckers.

 

[Bwsbro]

Have they?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2026 ==



That's one way to kill a route off.

This was a news story from 2022, with the company saving the route in 2023 thanks to uplift of passengers following the £2 Bus Fare Cap

BBC New Article - December 2022

A campaign has been launched to secure the future of a North Yorkshire bus route dubbed Britain's most scenic.

The 840 Coastliner service runs from Leeds via Malton to Whitby, but operator Transdev confirmed the Malton-Whitby part of the route could be withdrawn as early as April next year.

No final decision had yet been made over the route's future, Transdev said.

A petition calling for the service to be saved has so far attracted at least 1,300 signatures.

Route Saved - 2023

The Coastliner route 840 across the North York Moors to Whitby is to continue running.

The Coastliner 840 route linking Leeds and York with the historic port of Whitby – named Britain’s Most Scenic Bus Route in a national poll – has been saved after the Government confirmed further funding to support buses.

The funding extension means more people can now take advantage of the £2 fare cap, which was originally due to end on Friday, 31 March, but has now been extended to the end of June.

 

[Andyh82]

This was a news story from 2022, with the company saving the route in 2023 thanks to uplift of passengers following the £2 Bus Fare Cap

BBC New Article - December 2022
Route Saved - 2023

Has there been anything more recent than 3 and and a half years ago?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Do you know this for sure or are you assuming?

The grounding issues? It's been detailed in this thread before and I know that turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel is tricky enough in a Gemini.

On a good day there's capacity problems boarding at Whitby with double deckers.

Exactly, two deckers ran over the moors on May Day Bank Holiday weekend so everyone could travel. People were being left behind from York Stonebow.

Has there been anything more recent than 3 and and a half years ago?

No, the route is very popular. Even in winter when I've gone to Whitby the top deck is full on weekends and school holidays. The fare cap seems to have "solved" any issues.

Simple solution would be what Transdev have wanted to do for years and get rid of the 840. You could easily run the 843 as normal to Scarborough and get passengers for the 840 to change at Malton, and run single deck buses to Goathland or Whitby

The 840 is regularly full and standing up to Whitby during the summer. You wouldn't fit everyone on a single decker to Whitby and you wouldn't fit everyone on the 843 Combined with everyone going to Scarborough to change in Malton.

Or they would just make it summer only, which I presume is when it makes the most revenue.

Then you have the issue of a year-round bus service needed to serve Goathland (presumably from Whitby) which causes more problems than it solves.

 

[Leedsbusman]

This was a news story from 2022, with the company saving the route in 2023 thanks to uplift of passengers following the £2 Bus Fare Cap

BBC New Article - December 2022
Route Saved - 2023

But that applied to many routes at that time as government funding was on a cliff edge. Has there been any evidence since this that they are wanting to get rid of it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jul 2026 ==

The grounding issues? It's been detailed in this thread before and I know that turning by Mallyan Spout Hotel is tricky enough in a Gemini.

I think speculated about rather than detailed.

 

[YorkRailFan]

But that applied to many routes at that time as government funding was on a cliff edge. Has there been any evidence since this that they are wanting to get rid of it?

No there hasn't been.

I think speculated about rather than detailed.

If you've ever been on Coastliner through Goathland, you can imagine that a longer bus (ie tri-axle B8L) would struggle when going over the North York Moors Railway and coming into the village.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But that applied to many routes at that time as government funding was on a cliff edge. Has there been any evidence since this that they are wanting to get rid of it?

This is absolutely the case. Back in 2022, passenger numbers were still on the floor after various lockdowns. A lot has happened since then with passenger figures climbing back.

There's no way that the 840 could cope with single deckers and the assessment of a B8L will be to understand the practicalities of operation whether that's round Goathland or wherever.

Also, remember when Transdev cited poor ENCTS remuneration from North Yorkshire County Council and proposed missing out Goathland and making it an express between Thornton Dale and Whitby... several take aways from that incident.

 

[Leedsbusman]

No there hasn't been.

If you've ever been on Coastliner through Goathland, you can imagine that a longer bus (ie tri-axle B8L) would struggle when going over the North York Moors Railway and coming into the village.

Which is presumably why they are testing one not just imagining it!

 

[Russel]

This was a news story from 2022, with the company saving the route in 2023 thanks to uplift of passengers following the £2 Bus Fare Cap

BBC New Article - December 2022
Route Saved - 2023

That isn't Transdev saying they want to get rid of it though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Which is presumably why they are testing one not just imagining it!

Exactly - hence my comment

the assessment of a B8L will be to understand the practicalities of operation whether that's round Goathland or wherever.

 

[GWVillager]

The Gemini 3s are 11.5m - surely a 12m B8L with its three axles wouldn’t really have a higher risk of grounding? It’s turning that’s the problem, but even if they can’t do it, there’s an awful lot to be said for getting B8Ls to run to Scarborough and Thornton-le-Dale, then keeping some refreshed Geminis for Whitby, with much less intensive use hopefully extending their lifespan.

 

[BradK2017]

The Gemini 3s are 11.5m - surely a 12m B8L with its three axles wouldn’t really have a higher risk of grounding? It’s turning that’s the problem, but even if they can’t do it, there’s an awful lot to be said for getting B8Ls to run to Scarborough and Thornton-le-Dale, then keeping some refreshed Geminis for Whitby, with much less intensive use hopefully extending their lifespan.

As I mentioned further up, the 11.8m Eclipse 2s have managed Goathland as well when filling in for broken Gemini 3s on the Whitby runs during Winter. Whilst the B8L is 20cm longer than them would'nt the third axle reduce the grounding risk due to having a shorter rear overhang?

 

[Russel]

The Gemini 3s are 11.5m - surely a 12m B8L with its three axles wouldn’t really have a higher risk of grounding? It’s turning that’s the problem, but even if they can’t do it, there’s an awful lot to be said for getting B8Ls to run to Scarborough and Thornton-le-Dale, then keeping some refreshed Geminis for Whitby, with much less intensive use hopefully extending their lifespan.

But then what? They won't last forever so you can only kick the can so far down the road...

 

[grangergranger]

This could take a tri-axle …
I imagined the round about to be even tighter

 

[YorkRailFan]

This could take a tri-axle …
I imagined the round about to be even tighter

That's only one of the constraints. Have a look at the entry into Goathland over the North York Moors Railway from the A169.

But then what? They won't last forever so you can only kick the can so far down the road...

Exactly. It will be tested in Goathland. Great if it fits, back to the drawing board if it doesn't. The problem is also that the Whitby runs are interworked with the Thornton-le-Dale runs if Transdev were to do this.

The Gemini 3s are 11.5m - surely a 12m B8L with its three axles wouldn’t really have a higher risk of grounding? It’s turning that’s the problem, but even if they can’t do it, there’s an awful lot to be said for getting B8Ls to run to Scarborough and Thornton-le-Dale, then keeping some refreshed Geminis for Whitby, with much less intensive use hopefully extending their lifespan.

The problem with the Geminis is that the B5TL is quite underpowered for a double decker, especially on the run to Whitby where buses climb out of Goathland, Blue Bank, Hole Of Horcum and when running out of Thornton-le-Dale to Dalby Forest. Even with a refresh, I doubt the B5TLs would last a long time being exclusively run on Whitbys. The B9TLs might do a bit better but they are showing their age and would likely be replaced shortly after any new buses would arrive.

 

[Andyh82]

But then what? They won't last forever so you can only kick the can so far down the road...

They are only 66 plate. You are talking like they are 20 years old

 

[YorkRailFan]

They are only 66 plate. You are talking like they are 20 years old

There's also 2 that are 68 plate.

Once they're replaced I'm sure they'll find work elsewhere with Transdev, like the Gemini 3s from the36 did at Keighley. Perhaps on Hotline in Blackburn or on the X41 to Manchester. The latter is using 58 plate B7RLEs.

The problem is the Whitby run is probably the most intensive out of all the Coastliner diagrams. Even with a refurbishment, running them exclusively on Whitby runs will make them knackered before long.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They are only 66 plate. You are talking like they are 20 years old

Indeed, and there was talk that the B5TLs weren't powerful enough for Coastliner when new.

The problem is the Whitby run is probably the most intensive out of all the Coastliner diagrams. Even with a refurbishment, running them exclusively on Whitby runs will make them knackered before long.

In fairness, each board will only do one round trip to Whitby (based on current operating methods) so they spend much more of their day on the A64

 

[YorkRailFan]

Indeed, and there was talk that the B5TLs weren't powerful enough for Coastliner when new.


In fairness, each board will only do one round trip to Whitby (based on current operating methods) so they spend much more of their day on the A64

True, aside from Whitwell Hill the A64 isn't too challenging as a route, just the high speeds combined with frequent stopping can have its toll.