Denied Boarding Hovertravel Portsmouth to Ryde

[redreni]

You're just making something up here, there is no suggestion that the OP was refused boarding for any other reason than not holding a reservation.

I obviously haven't made myself clear. I'm not saying they already perceive rail ticket holders as a problem and that's why they denied the OP boarding

What I'm saying is if, as a result of the way tickets are retailed, HoverTravel end up dealing with complaints, especially persistent ones, from passengers holding rail tickets demanding to be compensated for denial of boarding, they might quickly come to regard *that* as an operational problem arising from the through ticketing arrangements. They're a small organisation and it might not even take a particularly large caseload to attract their attention and use up a lot of their administrative resources.

My concern is they may reflect on whether it is worth their while participating in through ticketing.

 

[cav1975]

I suspect that the real issue here is that there is no link between the railway and hovercraft ticketing/booking systems. The railway system sells the tickets but I think that Hovertravel don’t know anything about these passengets until they arrive at the terminal. Later, of course, they get a payment - probably timed around railway four weekly accounting periods.

In addition, the small capacity of the hovercraft, 78 useable seats, mitigates against accommodating all comers. I don’t know how many through tickets they get but I certainly don’t see through ticket holders in the connecting H1 bus very often.

A really useful enhancement would be making it possible for through ticket holders to reserve places online on Hovertravel’s website.

 

[redreni]

A really useful enhancement would be making it possible for through ticket holders to reserve places online on Hovertravel’s website.

That's already possible (or was last time I went to Ryde). The issue is most retailers (all except TrainSplit?) fail to tell you you may be denied boarding if you don't. Some even tell you reservations are not possible, or do not tell you that you can make a reservation.

 

[gray1404]

I am absolutely astonished that the traveler did not make a reservation for their return journey when they were unable to board the preferred departure for the outward at the same morning.

 

[WesternLancer]

Out of interest is the through ticketing legacy of when hover travel (and the ferries for that matter) to the island was part of Sealink / BR?

If the hovercraft was operated by an arm of BR that is.

 

[cav1975]

That's already possible (or was last time I went to Ryde). The issue is most retailers (all except TrainSplit?) fail to tell you you may be denied boarding if you don't. Some even tell you reservations are not possible, or do not tell you that you can make a reservation.

You can request a reservation 48 or more hours using this form, but you can't directly make a reservation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why should you do any checking if it’s an inclusive ticket? This feels to me like Hovercraft making it as onerous as possible to travel with a rail ticket deliberately, especially as a combined ticket can work out cheaper than a hovercraft only ticket (with a railcard)

It's a weird one.

On the one hard, Hovertravel's TnCs seem manifestly unfair; they purport to be able to strand a customer with no recourse if they have not made a reservation.

On the other hand, it should seem obvious to someone taking a hovercraft on a railway ticket with no reservation that they don't work like buses; they have a fixed capacity with no standees. If you are going to go to the Isle of Wight on a Sunday during a heatwave, of course taking the last crossing back to the mainland is taking a huge risk, especially when you already struggled to take the outbound crossing and got denied.

 

[Watershed]

On the other hand, it should seem obvious to someone taking a hovercraft on a railway ticket with no reservation that they don't work like buses; they have a fixed capacity with no standees

This is not necessarily obvious unless you have taken the hovercraft before. Or even if you have, but it was at a quieter time when the number of passengers was less than the capacity of the less, so standing wasn't necessary.

 

[The exile]

This is not necessarily obvious unless you have taken the hovercraft before. Or even if you have, but it was at a quieter time when the number of passengers was less than the capacity of the less, so standing wasn't necessary.

Indeed - I would have had absolutely no concept of the capacity of the IoW hovercraft - would have probably guessed a couple of hundred rather than less than a double decker bus.

 

[Skymonster]

I don’t know how many through tickets they get but I certainly don’t see through ticket holders in the connecting H1 bus very often.

Indeed, in my own experiences the H1 is hardly full of rail passengers. I suspect the majority of rail passengers using Hovertravel are doing it for novelty value. Even if is just wanting to go to the Isle of Wight, the rail retail systems [I use] usually offer the Wightlink cat by default / most often and I have to force via Ryde Hoverport to get the hovercraft. And once a customer is in-the-know, the Hoverbus from Portsmouth and Southsea (PMS) is hardly as easy to navigate as the interchange with the cat at Portsmouth Harbour. Hovertravel undoubtedly has an informed clientele who prefer the service, but I doubt it includes many rail passengers travelling to/from further afield on a very frequent basis. On the other hand I’ve tried the cat and I wouldn’t take it again by choice - but that’s just me and the novelty will always outweigh the lack of convenience.

But I’ll say again: first time I used Hovertravel, I checked the Hovertravel website just to find out what it was all about - maybe to find out where the bus stop was at PMS, etc. In doing so it became fairly clear I needed to make reservations. I can’t understand why most inquiring minds wouldn’t do the same when using a new form of transport. And once you know, you do it each time. Finally, I suspect the clunky - in today’s world - on-line form, manual process and 48-hour deadline merely reflects the volume of business Hovertravel gets via rail ticketing which doesn’t justify investment in a frictionless solution.

Oh, and if anyone thinks the Hovertravel process is a one-off, try Rail & Sail to Douglas via Isle of Man Steam Packet - its very similar.

 

[Swedenorer]

Out of interest is the through ticketing legacy of when hover travel (and the ferries for that matter) to the island was part of Sealink / BR?

If the hovercraft was operated by an arm of BR that is.

I don't think it ever was. They ran a service to Cowes for BR at one time ??Seaspeed?? The terminal was still in Cowes when I first visited in 1976 but I think the service had ended by then.

 

[Gareth1990]

Indeed, in my own experiences the H1 is hardly full of rail passengers. I suspect the majority of rail passengers using Hovertravel are doing it for novelty value. Even if is just wanting to go to the Isle of Wight, the rail retail systems [I use] usually offer the Wightlink cat by default / most often and I have to force via Ryde Hoverport to get the hovercraft. And once a customer is in-the-know, the Hoverbus from Portsmouth and Southsea (PMS) is hardly as easy to navigate as the interchange with the cat at Portsmouth Harbour. Hovertravel undoubtedly has an informed clientele who prefer the service, but I doubt it includes many rail passengers travelling to/from further afield on a very frequent basis. On the other hand I’ve tried the cat and I wouldn’t take it again by choice - but that’s just me and the novelty will always outweigh the lack of convenience.

But I’ll say again: first time I used Hovertravel, I checked the Hovertravel website just to find out what it was all about - maybe to find out where the bus stop was at PMS, etc. In doing so it became fairly clear I needed to make reservations. I can’t understand why most inquiring minds wouldn’t do the same when using a new form of transport. And once you know, you do it each time. Finally, I suspect the clunky - in today’s world - on-line form, manual process and 48-hour deadline merely reflects the volume of business Hovertravel gets via rail ticketing which doesn’t justify investment in a frictionless solution.

Oh, and if anyone thinks the Hovertravel process is a one-off, try Rail & Sail to Douglas via Isle of Man Steam Packet - its very similar.

The Hovercraft is hardly the same as a full on five hour sea crossing is it? What is really needed is for Hovertravel to run a full evening service

 

[AndrewE]

The Hovercraft is hardly the same as a full on five hour sea crossing is it? What is really needed is for Hovertravel to run a full evening service

which would presumably have a knock-on effect on staffing. From what has been posted above this is a small company so it might be the death blow for it.

 

[marshlinker]

which would presumably have a knock-on effect on staffing. From what has been posted above this is a small company so it might be the death blow for it.

They do run evening services where they can be sure of demand, for instance there is a football special on Pompey Home games but generally its a very seasonal demand
and its very difficult to cover the costs. They only have 10 Pilots which will give you an idea of just how small the operation is.

 

[Haywain]

Even if is just wanting to go to the Isle of Wight, the rail retail systems [I use] usually offer the Wightlink cat by default / most often and I have to force via Ryde Hoverport to get the hovercraft

In my experience rail retail systems would default to the hovercraft for a destination of Ryde Esplanade only, as they can then offer the fare to the Hoverport with a walk to Esplanade. For anywhere other than Hoverport or Esplanade there tends not to be a through fare so it goes to Wightlink.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't think it ever was. They ran a service to Cowes for BR at one time ??Seaspeed?? The terminal was still in Cowes when I first visited in 1976 but I think the service had ended by then.

Thanks for that reply - appreciated

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed - I would have had absolutely no concept of the capacity of the IoW hovercraft - would have probably guessed a couple of hundred rather than less than a double decker bus.

If people don't know how a mode of transport actually works they should take steps to find out, to be honest. I'm in total agreement that Hovertravel should not be able to strand ticket holders but this is also a salutary lesson in opening Google.

"I am taking the last crossing back to the mainland after a heatwave Sunday on the Isle of Wight, just like everyone else, what if the hovercraft is full?" - this is elementary trip planning. For a period during COVID they ceased offering reservations owing to very low demand and the need ro socially distance (and AIUI did cooperate with Wightlink in this regard) but otherwise you've always had to fill in the form to be sure of a crossing.

 

[davp]

"I am taking the last crossing back to the mainland after a heatwave Sunday on the Isle of Wight, just like everyone else, what if the hovercraft is full?"

I can see how people can be easily confused. I just tried that in Google:



Text in image:

If the hovercraft is full for the last crossing back to the mainland, Hovertravel regularly ramps up frequency by running back-to-back "flights" during peak Summer Timetables to clear the crowds.

If all flights are genuinely sold out, you are not stranded. Hovertravel has an official disruption contingency plan with the other cross-Solent operators. Your ticket can generally be used for travel on alternative ferries, specifically Wightlink or Red Funnel services.

Google AI seems to interpret a fully booked crossing as disruption. I doubt Hovertravel do.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can see how people can be easily confused. I just tried that in Google:

View attachment 206925

Text in image:

If the hovercraft is full for the last crossing back to the mainland, Hovertravel regularly ramps up frequency by running back-to-back "flights" during peak Summer Timetables to clear the crowds.

If all flights are genuinely sold out, you are not stranded. Hovertravel has an official disruption contingency plan with the other cross-Solent operators. Your ticket can generally be used for travel on alternative ferries, specifically Wightlink or Red Funnel services.

Google AI seems to interpret a fully booked crossing as disruption. I doubt Hovertravel do.

Oh God! Using AI for trip planning is actually worse than not even looking at Google at all. This sort of learned helplessness will be the end of many a good thing.

Sorry to be a bore but it is not hard to simply visit the website to see this is a small hovercraft and to see that you can make reservations and no, you cannot just all cram in. Put "hovertravel reservations" into Google and this is the first result: https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/reserve-your-flight-rail-through-tickets/

 

[ainsworth74]

Sorry to be a bore but it is not hard to simply visit the website to see this is a small hovercraft and to see that you can make reservations and no, you cannot just all cram in. Put "hovertravel reservations" into Google and this is the first result: https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/reserve-your-flight-rail-through-tickets/

Where it doesn't make it clear that you'll be stranded if the last flight is...

If you hold a valid National Rail or National Express through ticket to, from or via Ryde HoverPort and you wish to reserve a seat, please complete the below form at least 48 hours before travel.

Alternatively, please arrive at our terminal 10-15 mins before your preferred flight time and you’ll be boarded as soon as possible.

It definitely needs a slightly more stern: "Please Note: If the final flight is full and you do not have a reservation you may need to make alternative arrangements at your own cost".

 

[WesternLancer]

Surely all that is required is a statement that goes on all rail related ticket booking systems, and on their website along the lines of 'Although walk up tickets can be accepted if seats are free, it is possible to reserve a seat on the hovercraft by doing xxx, and it is strongly advised to do this, especially at busy times. Boarding can not be guaranteed without a seat reservation'

or some such suitably worded to avoid jargon.

 

[Watershed]

Surely all that is required is a statement that goes on all rail related ticket booking systems, and on their website along the lines of 'Although walk up tickets can be accepted if seats are free, it is possible to reserve a seat on the hovercraft by doing xxx, and it is strongly advised to do this, especially at busy times. Boarding can not be guaranteed without a seat reservation'

or some such suitably worded to avoid jargon.

Absolutely, yes. Worth noting that achieving universal coverage would require RDG to make this an accreditation requirement. Even once it is, sites will have a year to comply. So it's by no means an overnight exercise coordinating it across the industry.

 

[Gareth1990]

Hovertravel dislike walkups and dislike rail tickets more so I’m surprised they don’t just make their crossings advance booking only. Last year their check in staff moaned at me because I had the cheek to use a railcard discounted fare to Fratton

 

[Swedenorer]

In my experience rail retail systems would default to the hovercraft for a destination of Ryde Esplanade only, as they can then offer the fare to the Hoverport with a walk to Esplanade. For anywhere other than Hoverport or Esplanade there tends not to be a through fare so it goes to Wightlink.

That is . how they worked for years but they will now even offer through fares to Sandown via this route or at least Southern will. Without any rubric about booking a flight anywhere. I assume that the booking engines are permitted to sell an infinite number of such fares - I can buy one now for instant departure - which for a ferry of limited capacity running a half hour service ending at 20.00 is plainly ludicrous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is . how they worked for years but they will now even offer through fares to Sandown via this route or at least Southern will. Without any rubric about booking a flight anywhere. I assume that the booking engines are permitted to sell an infinite number of such fares - I can buy one now for instant departure - which for a ferry of limited capacity running a half hour service ending at 20.00 is plainly ludicrous.

I'm inclined to think integrations would be a good idea: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...be-able-to-integrate-with-other-modes.304048/

 

[sabanda]

Hovertravel dislike walkups and dislike rail tickets more so I’m surprised they don’t just make their crossings advance booking only. Last year their check in staff moaned at me because I had the cheek to use a railcard discounted fare to Fratton

This is not at all representative of my experience when doing the same. I have used such tickets on several occasions now and am yet to have a bad experience - including during disruption.

 

[yorkie]

But on the return journey, obviously as there were no later departures, I was not able to travel, so instead I had to buy a new ticket for the Wightlink service from Ryde Pier Head to Portsmouth Harbour to complete my journey.

What conversation(s) took place between you and Hovertravel and you and Whitelink, out of interest? Presumably Whitelink refused to accept a ticket routed via Hovertravel.

In theory, a National Rail ticket office, Guard, OBM/OBS/TTI etc could issue a "change of route excess", but I suspect this comes under the concept of a TOC restriction, and wouldn't officially be allowed.

It does sound like something should be done to change things, but my concern is that if anyone makes a fuss, it could result in the abolishment of these good value tickets.

 

[Gareth1990]

What conversation(s) took place between you and Hovertravel and you and Whitelink, out of interest? Presumably Whitelink refused to accept a ticket routed via Hovertravel.

In theory, a National Rail ticket office, Guard, OBM/OBS/TTI etc could issue a "change of route excess", but I suspect this comes under the concept of a TOC restriction, and wouldn't officially be allowed.

It does sound like something should be done to change things, but my concern is that if anyone makes a fuss, it could result in the abolishment of these good value tickets.

Would it? Seeing as Island line is a fully integrated part of the National Rail network I don’t see how they could be withdrawn

 

[AlterEgo]

Would it? Seeing as Island line is a fully integrated part of the National Rail network I don’t see how they could be withdrawn

They don't have to offer through tickets or pay Hovertravel (or Wightlink) for the ferry - why would you think this offers any protection?

There have been tickets before where the intermediate mode is not covered, notably routes involving the Tilbury ferry (RIP).

 

[yorkie]

Would it? Seeing as Island line is a fully integrated part of the National Rail network I don’t see how they could be withdrawn

They could withdraw the Hovertravel ones, leaving the ferry ones. Hopefully not.

Or...

They don't have to offer through tickets or pay Hovertravel (or Wightlink) for the ferry - why would you think this offers any protection?

There have been tickets before where the intermediate mode is not covered, notably routes involving the Tilbury ferry (RIP).

...indeed. As you say, Route "Tilbury not ferry" is a particularly memorable one, along with Route "Humberlink not bus".

There's a similar problem between the Yeovil stations, where some journey planners will offer tickets for a bus journey, when the bus isn't included in the fare (of course, this breaches consumer law, but the rail industry isn't interested in being fully compliant!), so the precedents - rightly or wrongly - do/did exist.