Denied Boarding Hovertravel Portsmouth to Ryde

[kkgbd2223]

Hello, looking for opinion/advice on this one...

Yesterday (Saturday 27th June) I purchased a combined rail/hovercraft ticket for travel from mainland UK to Ryde Isle of Wight using the Hovertravel Hovercraft.

The ticket I purchased is an "Off-Peak Day Return" which I understand I can use on any rail/hovercraft service that day, this being a walk up and go ticket.

What I did not realise, and was not informed when I purchased my ticket, is that Hovertravel take advance bookings (from both rail and non-rail travellers) for seats on their hovercraft which can thus result in a "denial of boarding" where the hovercraft is fully booked, this includes the "last" hovercraft service of the day.

This happened twice yesterday 27th June where both the 10:30 departure from Portsmouth Hoverport to Ryde Hoverport was fully booked and also on the return departure from Ryde to Portsmouth where the 19:15 was also fully booked - which is the last Hovercraft service of the day.

On the outward journey, this was not a problem as I was able to board the 11:00 departure from Portsmouth to Ryde. But on the return journey, obviously as there were no later departures, I was not able to travel, so instead I had to buy a new ticket for the Wightlink service from Ryde Pier Head to Portsmouth Harbour to complete my journey.

I would like to understand what options, if any, there are to claim compensation? As I see it:

I bought the ticket from SWR, so I believe the contract exists between me and SWR, not between me and Hovertravel. Hovertravel have their own agreement with the train companies for combined "through" tickets
The National Rail journey planner shows journey options as valid, when in fact, that option is not available as the service is fully booked.

My ticket is subject to NCoT which entitle me to "delay repay"

Many thanks in advance.

 

[AlterEgo]

No delay repay is payable as Hovertravel is not a TOC and travel on them is subject to their own Conditions of Travel and not the NRCoT. That is also the same principle that applies to tickets involving travel on buses or other non-rail forms of transport - if you get a bus inclusive ticket and the bus is too full to board or they don't let you travel with your bike or it's delayed, I'm afraid that is not covered by the NRCoT either.

Your complaint lies with Hovertravel. FWIW you can book reservations with them here, if you have a through rail ticket: https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/reserve-your-flight-rail-through-tickets/

 

[185143]

I am slightly surprised that there isn't an agreement in place that Wightlink will take any Hovertravel (especially rail) ticket holders who arrived in time and physically unable to board the last hovercraft actually.

They do work together when there's weather disruption and people are then stranded, so they do have some agreements. When I used Wightlink, I booked the hovercraft as a through rail ticket. They weren't running due to weather, which I was informed by the bus driver. He took us to Wightlink instead, the Hovertravel staff had set up a desk, you had to go to them and get something to present to Wightlink's check in staff, presumably as a way to allow them to record how many hovercraft passengers they were carrying.

 

[Watershed]

No delay repay is payable as Hovertravel is not a TOC and travel on them is subject to their own Conditions of Travel and not the NRCoT. That is also the same principle that applies to tickets involving travel on buses or other non-rail forms of transport - if you get a bus inclusive ticket and the bus is too full to board or they don't let you travel with your bike or it's delayed, I'm afraid that is not covered by the NRCoT either.

Your complaint lies with Hovertravel. FWIW you can book reservations with them here, if you have a through rail ticket: https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/reserve-your-flight-rail-through-tickets/

It’s not covered by the NRCoT but as a matter of consumer law, I don’t think the railway can completely wash its hands of responsibility if it offers a through ticket and an itinerary on a specific ferry. That clearly implies you will be able to travel on that service.

The question would be what (if any) itinerary the OP got when buying their ticket, certainly for the return journey where they were forced to buy a new ticket for Wightlink.

 

[kkgbd2223]

Many thanks for your help.

I have since read through Hovertravel's T&C's, I agree this looks to be down to Consumer Law. Yes Hovertravel offers a capability to reserve a seat, but this has to be done a minimum of 48 hours in advance.

I think the specific issue is:

• Hovertravel sells walk up and go tickets through 3rd party travel companies, in this case, SWR, where Hovertravel does not advise, or publish information into that 3rd party's booking system that the specific craft I wish to board is actually "sold out" meaning travel isn't possible, thus it is not possible for that 3rd party to offer the appropriate travel advice. There is a clause in the T&C's that where the walk up and go ticket is bought directly from Hovertravel, they will advise ahead of selling the ticket if the craft is fully booked or not.
• Usually this isn't a problem as the passenger would get "bumped" to the next available service. In this scenario, Hovertravel's T&C's do not provide any ability to claim compensation for any delay caused.
• However, the problem is with the last scheduled service of the day where this is either fully booked, or there are more "flexible walk up and go" passengers than the craft can take. There is no provision in the terms and conditions for either:
  • Travel with another operator*
  • Have the ticket validated for travel the following day
  • Have the ticket refunded
  • Claim for consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, food etc.

*There is a provision for Hovertravel's inability to provide service in relation to a journey that has been "booked", as a flexible walk up and go is not "booked" I don't believe this would apply.

 

[AlterEgo]

Many thanks for your help.

I have since read through Hovertravel's T&C's, I agree this looks to be down to Consumer Law. Yes Hovertravel offers a capability to reserve a seat, but this has to be done a minimum of 48 hours in advance.

I think the specific issue is:

• Hovertravel sells walk up and go tickets through 3rd party travel companies, in this case, SWR, where Hovertravel does not advise, or publish information into that 3rd party's booking system that the specific craft I wish to board is actually "sold out" meaning travel isn't possible, thus it is not possible for that 3rd party to offer the appropriate travel advice. There is a clause in the T&C's that where the walk up and go ticket is bought directly from Hovertravel, they will advise ahead of selling the ticket if the craft is fully booked or not.
• Usually this isn't a problem as the passenger would get "bumped" to the next available service. In this scenario, Hovertravel's T&C's do not provide any ability to claim compensation for any delay caused.
• However, the problem is with the last scheduled service of the day where this is either fully booked, or there are more "flexible walk up and go" passengers than the craft can take. There is no provision in the terms and conditions for either:
  • Travel with another operator*
  • Have the ticket validated for travel the following day
  • Have the ticket refunded
  • Claim for consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, food etc.

*There is a provision for Hovertravel's inability to provide service in relation to a journey that has been "booked", as a flexible walk up and go is not "booked" I don't believe this would apply.

This is where I would sit with this. I would take this up with Hovertravel. The strongest point you have is the last one, where Hovertravel may effectively strand you. This seems a manifestly unfair term.

Do let us know how you get on; this is a question which has come up before as a hypothetical, and now there is a real case, it will be interesting to see the outcome. Best of luck.

 

[marshlinker]

Many thanks for your help.

I have since read through Hovertravel's T&C's, I agree this looks to be down to Consumer Law. Yes Hovertravel offers a capability to reserve a seat, but this has to be done a minimum of 48 hours in advance.

I think the specific issue is:

• Hovertravel sells walk up and go tickets through 3rd party travel companies, in this case, SWR, where Hovertravel does not advise, or publish information into that 3rd party's booking system that the specific craft I wish to board is actually "sold out" meaning travel isn't possible, thus it is not possible for that 3rd party to offer the appropriate travel advice. There is a clause in the T&C's that where the walk up and go ticket is bought directly from Hovertravel, they will advise ahead of selling the ticket if the craft is fully booked or not.
• Usually this isn't a problem as the passenger would get "bumped" to the next available service. In this scenario, Hovertravel's T&C's do not provide any ability to claim compensation for any delay caused.
• However, the problem is with the last scheduled service of the day where this is either fully booked, or there are more "flexible walk up and go" passengers than the craft can take. There is no provision in the terms and conditions for either:
  • Travel with another operator*
  • Have the ticket validated for travel the following day
  • Have the ticket refunded
  • Claim for consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, food etc.

*There is a provision for Hovertravel's inability to provide service in relation to a journey that has been "booked", as a flexible walk up and go is not "booked" I don't believe this would apply.

Unless its changed recently, you can book the return journey when you check in for the outward. In fact they've recommended it when they were expecting to be busy for me in the past.
The livetimetable on their website also shows when flights are fully booked, at the time of posting the 16.15, 17.15 and 18.15 tonight from the Island are fully booked. https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/timetables/

 

[redreni]

National Rail retailers don't tell you your itinerary is worthless and you should book a seat on the Hovercraft if travelling at busy times, so I was quite surprised when I discovered experienced travellers will advise you to make a separate reservation with Hovertravel to avoid possible denial of boarding.

The simplest solution would be for retailers to start telling passengers this before they commit to buy the ticket.

An even easier solution - and very attractive one if you're a bit lazy and have rather an anti-passenger mindset - would be to just get rid of through tickets. I'm not really inclined to choose this particular battle myself, for that very reason. Then again, I've been fortunate enough not to end up stranded, so maybe that affects my judgement...

 

[AlterEgo]

National Rail retailers don't tell you your itinerary is worthless and you should book a seat on the Hovercraft if travelling at busy times

Trainline does advise this, to be fair.

 

[redreni]

Trainline does advise this, to be fair.

Ah, there you go. Maybe that's what the fee is for?

 

[Adam Williams]

Trainline's advice, for those curious (only shown if you open the itinerary):

 

[Watershed]

Trainline's advice, for those curious (only shown if you open the itinerary):

View attachment 206797

Indeed which doesn't suggest any possibility of being denied travel.

 

[blimmo]

Would the PRO apply here (if you were given an itinerary for the last flight of the day)?

 

[Watershed]

Would the PRO apply here (if you were given an itinerary for the last flight of the day)?

The PRO applies to rail travel only.

I think that a hovercraft would fall under the retained EU maritime passenger rights legislation (Regulation 1177/2010). But this doesn't provide any rights to compensation or assistance in the event of denied boarding - purely in the event of the ferry (or equivalent) itself being cancelled or delayed.

Now you could try and argue that being denied boarding caused a delay - but the absence of a denied boarding provision, when the legislation otherwise parallels the aviation legislation which provides for denied boarding rights, might be used to suggest that is was intended not to cover denied boarding.

It also has the following relevant exemptions, both of which Hovertravel might try to argue apply (the 'fault' being the failure to obtain a reservation):

Article 20 Exemptions​

1.Articles 17, 18 and 19 shall not apply to passengers with open tickets as long as the time of departure is not specified, except for passengers holding a travel pass or a season ticket.

2.Articles 17 and 19 shall not apply if the passenger is informed of the cancellation or delay before the purchase of the ticket or if the cancellation or delay is caused by the fault of the passenger.

 

[Adam Williams]

I am slightly surprised that there isn't an agreement in place that Wightlink will take any Hovertravel (especially rail) ticket holders who arrived in time and physically unable to board the last hovercraft actually.

As am I. It's far from an ideal position to leave customers in.

Indeed which doesn't suggest any possibility of being denied travel.

Yeah. it probably needs to be a much stronger warning spelling out potential consequences that the customer is forced to acknowledge their understanding of.

I've done exactly that for the Raileasy-powered sites/apps, since clearly it's a sharp edge.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah. it probably needs to be a much stronger warning spelling out potential consequences that the customer is forced to acknowledge their understanding of.

I've done exactly that for the Raileasy-powered sites/apps, since clearly it's a sharp edge.

Interestingly it seems that Trainline just took their wording from Hovertravel themselves:

If you hold a valid National Rail or National Express through ticket to, from or via Ryde HoverPort and you wish to reserve a seat, please complete the below form at least 48 hours before travel.

Alternatively, please arrive at our terminal 10-15 mins before your preferred flight time and you’ll be boarded as soon as possible.

(Emphasis as per original)

Reserve Your Flight Rail Through Tickets - Hovertravel

www.hovertravel.co.uk

Which also probably adds weight to any complaint. Hovertravel themselves don't make it clear that they'll strand you on the very page where they tell you that you can reserve a specific departure. Feels like it would be important information for them to share...

 

[marshlinker]

I think maybe you have to take in to account the small size of Hovertravel as a company. They have a turnover of £5.9 million and 14 administrative employees.
That makes them around a third of the size of for instance West Coast Railways Ltd or half the North York Moors Railway. Any onerous compensation scheme for passengers or even a single on Wightlink is unlikely to be viable for them. Likely outcome is mandatory reservations for rail passengers or pull out of the through tickets altogether.

 

[Adam Williams]

I think maybe you have to take in to account the small size of Hovertravel as a company. They have a turnover of £5.9 million and 14 administrative employees.
That makes them around a third of the size of for instance West Coast Railways Ltd or half the North York Moors Railway. Any onerous compensation scheme for passengers or even a single on Wightlink is unlikely to be viable for them. Likely outcome is mandatory reservations for rail passengers or pull out of the through tickets altogether.

It's not an excuse for being bloody useless at communicating this state of affairs to prospective passengers.

 

[Skymonster]

Sorry, I don’t have much sympathy with you. I’ve done the trip plenty of times and I’ve never had a problem - because I did a little bit of checking first. Hovertravel’s website explains how the process works, and I’m sure that had you followed the advice Hovertravel would have told you the services you wanted to travel on were fully booked - or you would have got bookings ahead of others who requested seats nearer to departure time.

How to Book​

Hovertravel fares and timetables are integrated into the UK National Rail network, offering through tickets from all UK destinations to and from the Isle Of Wight stations.

• Visit www.nationalrail.co.uk to book your rail through-ticket.
• Select via Ryde Hoverport to ensure one inclusive ticket.
• Reserve your seat on your chosen flight at least 48 hours before travel by completing our national rail bookings form.

 

[Gareth1990]

Sorry, I don’t have much sympathy with you. I’ve done the trip plenty of times and I’ve never had a problem - because I did a little bit of checking first. Hovertravel’s website explains how the process works, and I’m sure that had you followed the advice Hovertravel would have told you the services you wanted to travel on were fully booked - or you would have got bookings ahead of others who requested seats nearer to departure time.

Why should you do any checking if it’s an inclusive ticket? This feels to me like Hovercraft making it as onerous as possible to travel with a rail ticket deliberately, especially as a combined ticket can work out cheaper than a hovercraft only ticket (with a railcard)

 

[Haywain]

Whilst it seems that the potential need for reservations should be clearer, I do feel that having been unable to board the outward flight, that should have been taken as a warning regarding the return flight.

 

[Ken X]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. We regularly pop over to the island on a through ticket and understand the risks of being bumped off a flight. It was always made clear that the Hovertravel seat is not reserved.

Having said that, on arrival at Southsea the agent invariably checks when we plan on returning and offers to reserve seats on the return flight. We generally decline as we aren't that organised and tend to flex as the day progresses.

If, however, we planned to return on the final crossing I would be booking every time. Too much of a risk for my taste and I would be on the receiving end of much wrath from the present Mrs X.

My suspicion is that not being able to take an unreserved journey due to there being no seats available is just unfortunate rather than grounds for redress. Possibly a refund at best.

 

[Swedenorer]

The trouble is that if you try to book just to Ryde many engines will offer you this route only - or apparently only - even if you specify Esplanade. After an experience like the OP I've left it alone.

If you want to be more comfortable with availability I'd always book VIA Ryde Pier Head which forces Wightlink only (or to Ryde Pier Head for the very pleasant walk along the pier). Agreed for me it's £6 more but it is still a sea rail integrated service.

 

[marshlinker]

The trouble is that if you try to book just to Ryde many engines will offer you this route only - or apparently only - even if you specify Esplanade. After an experience like the OP I've left it alone.

If you want to be more comfortable with availability I'd always book VIA Ryde Pier Head which forces Wightlink only (or to Ryde Pier Head for the very pleasant walk along the pier). Agreed for me it's £6 more but it is still a sea rail integrated service.

Personally Id happily use the hovercraft especially if I'm only travelling to Ryde. Just reserve the return flight when you pass thru Southsea on the outward, especially if you intend returning on the last service on a summer weekend. The advantage of the hovercraft for Ryde is that the terminal is next to the bus station and easy walking in to the town. The fastcat is rather at the mercy of the unreliable Island line (when its not closed for scheduled improvement works for months on end). Its okay walking down the pier in the summer but not so much fun in the rain in January.

 

[jumble]

Hello, looking for opinion/advice on this one...

Yesterday (Saturday 27th June) I purchased a combined rail/hovercraft ticket for travel from mainland UK to Ryde Isle of Wight using the Hovertravel Hovercraft.

The ticket I purchased is an "Off-Peak Day Return" which I understand I can use on any rail/hovercraft service that day, this being a walk up and go ticket.

What I did not realise, and was not informed when I purchased my ticket, is that Hovertravel take advance bookings (from both rail and non-rail travellers) for seats on their hovercraft which can thus result in a "denial of boarding" where the hovercraft is fully booked, this includes the "last" hovercraft service of the day.

This happened twice yesterday 27th June where both the 10:30 departure from Portsmouth Hoverport to Ryde Hoverport was fully booked and also on the return departure from Ryde to Portsmouth where the 19:15 was also fully booked - which is the last Hovercraft service of the day.

On the outward journey, this was not a problem as I was able to board the 11:00 departure from Portsmouth to Ryde. But on the return journey, obviously as there were no later departures, I was not able to travel, so instead I had to buy a new ticket for the Wightlink service from Ryde Pier Head to Portsmouth Harbour to complete my journey.

I would like to understand what options, if any, there are to claim compensation? As I see it:

I bought the ticket from SWR, so I believe the contract exists between me and SWR, not between me and Hovertravel. Hovertravel have their own agreement with the train companies for combined "through" tickets
The National Rail journey planner shows journey options as valid, when in fact, that option is not available as the service is fully booked.

My ticket is subject to NCoT which entitle me to "delay repay"

Many thanks in advance.

I certainly think Hovertravel should cough up some money
After all they were paid to transport you but did not deliver.

 

[Benjwri]

Sorry, I don’t have much sympathy with you. I’ve done the trip plenty of times and I’ve never had a problem - because I did a little bit of checking first. Hovertravel’s website explains how the process works, and I’m sure that had you followed the advice Hovertravel would have told you the services you wanted to travel on were fully booked - or you would have got bookings ahead of others who requested seats nearer to departure time.

Given the op booked through the railway I don’t think it’s unreasonable they didn’t check deep into their website to find that. I’ve just had a look for 5 minutes and found NR find where that came from, even when looking for it.

Even if they did the railway constantly bombards you with messages to reaver seats when half the time you can’t even do that.

 

[ainsworth74]

I've done exactly that for the Raileasy-powered sites/apps, since clearly it's a sharp edge.

Oh yes having just had a look that's much better than the Trainline wording (or even Hovertravel's own wording!):

We strongly recommend making reservations on the sea leg prior to the intended date of travel, particularly if you are intending to travel on the last service of the day. Failure to obtain a reservation may result in not being allowed to board the vessel at busy times. Visit https://www.hovertravel.co.uk/connections/national-rail/reserve-your-flight-rail-through-tickets/

Though that's still a better effort than SWR who merrily inform you that for the leg from Southsea Hoverport to Ryde Hoverport:

Reservations are not possible for this part of your journey.

I appreciate that that is correct in terms of the railways reservation system but obviously not true in reality but no doubt due to the awful way that the railway deals with this sort of thing....

 

[redreni]

Why should you do any checking if it’s an inclusive ticket? This feels to me like Hovercraft making it as onerous as possible to travel with a rail ticket deliberately, especially as a combined ticket can work out cheaper than a hovercraft only ticket (with a railcard)

Quite. I'm not sure what ticket the OP held, but it is worth thinking about what HoverTravel might do if they begin to perceive passengers travelling on Railcard-discounted train tickets, some of which undercut their own Hovercraft-only fares, as an operational problem for them. Particularly as we move into an era of, it would appear, deregulation as far as ticketing is concerned.

When I had trouble with the Hover Bus being cancelled, I took it up with the retailer (LNER) and got a refund which covered my Uber fare. I realise being stranded on the island is a bigger deal, but I do think the main fault is the retailer's if they didn't advise the OP to make a reservation through HoverTravel. What is HoverTravel meant to do - bump its own customers who have reservations to take people with through rail tickets but no reservation?

 

[Haywain]

it is worth thinking about what HoverTravel might do if they begin to perceive passengers travelling on Railcard-discounted train tickets, some of which undercut their own Hovercraft-only fares, as an operational problem for them.

You're just making something up here, there is no suggestion that the OP was refused boarding for any other reason than not holding a reservation.

 

[PeterC]

Whilst it seems that the potential need for reservations should be clearer, I do feel that having been unable to board the outward flight, that should have been taken as a warning regarding the return flight.

I agree, in that situation I would have enquired about the return flight.