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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
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pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Looks like 5/6 diagrams were 769s today, but it looks like 769442 failed at Southport ~07:46.
It looks like, in an effort to not cancel any services, trains were turning around at Southport and picking up the service one earlier than the one they were due to leave on, causing delays to the Stalybridge departures but easily absorbable by their long turnaround there.
Only 1 4 car 15x was sent out on Southport services today, and once it got back it was split up and trains are now keeping to one diagram instead of changing at Southport
Arrived as 2W07 10:30 from Stalybridge (156420 + 150114), left as
2W50 1030 Southport to Stalybridge (150114) - 9 minutes late
2O75 1103 Southport to Manchester Oxford Road (156420)
It looks like, in an effort to not cancel any services, trains were turning around at Southport and picking up the service one earlier than the one they were due to leave on, causing delays to the Stalybridge departures but easily absorbable by their long turnaround there.
Only 1 4 car 15x was sent out on Southport services today, and once it got back it was split up and trains are now keeping to one diagram instead of changing at Southport
Arrived as 2W07 10:30 from Stalybridge (156420 + 150114), left as
2W50 1030 Southport to Stalybridge (150114) - 9 minutes late
2O75 1103 Southport to Manchester Oxford Road (156420)
Fri 22/5
As above
5 started the day 424/31/34/42/48 but with 442 failing at Southport after working 2W02 06.32 Man Vic-Southport. It's still there showing as demic in platform 5. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering the 6th diagram off SP.
As stated above (ta pokemonsuper9) trains were being stepped up at Southport but now keeping to diagram. However this means that some 769's are now on different diagrams which will alter their overnight stabling points (424 going to AN not SP, 448 going to SP not AN). If 442 is that bad, a 769 will have to be found to tow it back, that's usually a later ECS from Southport. More fun in control.
Later 442 was resurrected from the dead at Southport and went back into service on 2O77 13.04 Southport-Man. Ox Road and has so far worked rest of diagram. Not the first time that a supposed demic has suddenly been sorted (no fitters at Southport, are there!)...........just saying!!
As above
5 started the day 424/31/34/42/48 but with 442 failing at Southport after working 2W02 06.32 Man Vic-Southport. It's still there showing as demic in platform 5. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering the 6th diagram off SP.
As stated above (ta pokemonsuper9) trains were being stepped up at Southport but now keeping to diagram. However this means that some 769's are now on different diagrams which will alter their overnight stabling points (424 going to AN not SP, 448 going to SP not AN). If 442 is that bad, a 769 will have to be found to tow it back, that's usually a later ECS from Southport. More fun in control.
Later 442 was resurrected from the dead at Southport and went back into service on 2O77 13.04 Southport-Man. Ox Road and has so far worked rest of diagram. Not the first time that a supposed demic has suddenly been sorted (no fitters at Southport, are there!)...........just saying!!
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Razorblades
Member
I had a cheap holiday (£9.00) in other people's misery yesterday while the car was undergoing maintenance in Bolton, and took 431 to Wigan for 448 back to Stalybridge, a pint and some 15X action. Clean and tidy units, a far cry from when I used to have them daily in sardine mode from Kings Cross Thameslink to London Bridge!
Clean and tidy, that's because they don't spend much time in action. 431 recently out of action from 23/4 to 21/5, whilst 448 has had its moments of late, however that's the only one to still have the 'Brodie' treatment.
Sat 23/5
5 started the day 424/34/42/48/58 with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
However, as yesterday 2W02 06.32 Man Vic-Southport (today with 424) failed, this time at Wigan Wallgate (traction equipment), same driver?? poor lad/lass, onward to Southport cancelled, 08.30 Southport-Stalybridge cancelled as far as Man Vic and a 4 car 150/156 DMU purloined from a Man Ox Rd-NH empties. 424 retired hurt to SP.
Mid afternoon 458 gave up the ghost at Southport and has been replaced by splitting the 150/156 set that earlier had been part of the rescue set for 424, so thats another shortform. 458 currently showing as 'Demic' Pl 4 Southport.
Mon 25/5
4 start the day 424/31/34/48. 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off NH.
Tues 26/5
5 start the day 424/31/34/42/48 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
Of the others 450 Brodies since 10/4, 456 last in traffic 12/5, 458 failed on 23/5.
Wed 27/5
5 started the day 424/34/42/48/56 with 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN
However 456 (first day out since 12/5) ran into trouble on 2W01 06.08 Man Vic-Southport, managed to (partially) work the return 2O72 08.03 Southport-Oxford Road but was taken out of traffic at Wigan Wallgate. 150126 eventually covered after a couple of turns were missed, but 456 appears to have been sorted and is now on 2O72 18.03 Southport-Man Ox Road. As there are no fitters at Southport, let alone any Northern staff, is this another case of man in a van, divine intervention, or just Con Alt Delete?? which by my reckoning is the fourth in about a week!
Thurs 28/5
5 started the day 424/31/34/42/56. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off NH
However the daily farce involving either 2W01/2W02 continues, today 424 on 2W01 06.08 Man Vic- Southport has failed (apparently at Southport, showing as DEMC in platform 4) with the 08.03 Southport-Man Ox Rd cancelled (traction equipment), 09.27 Man Ox Rd-Southport and 11.24 Southport-Stalybridge (at least as far as Wigan) also cancelled, presumably until (yet another) DMU formation is split to continue to provide a service, albeit shortformed. Update:- 150225 - pinched from splitting a Headbolt Lane-Blackburn.
So that's 4 failures on either 2W01/2 in a week with resultant cancellations.
Later another miraculous act with a 769 as 424 returned to service on 16.03 ex-Southport....should questions be asked as to how these sets are failing on the same early workings, to be restored later in the day??
Fri 29/5
5 start the day 424/31/34/42/56. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN.
Sat 30/5
2 start the day 424/56. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 4 car 156 DMU, 1 x 4 car 150 DMU & 1 x2 car 150 DMU covering, all off SP.
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pokemonsuper9
Established Member
It had arrived at Southport on Sunday night as 2L73 21:25 Manchester Victoria to Southport with 150133, which looks to have gone empty to Wigan, then this morning formed a Blackburn service, then broke down on the way back to Headbolt Lane and has been swapped out for 150201.
150225 was in use yesterday on the reduced Sunday Man Vic-Southport services all day(with 150133), saw it at Wigan Wallgate mid-afternoon & indeed spent the night at Southport, whilst 150225 started today on its own as diagrammed on one of the two non-769 Southport-Man Ox Rd/Stalybridge circuits, this particular diagram being the one that has been reduced to a 2 car diagram (think from last Dec diagrams)
Tues 2/6
4 start the day 424/31/42/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH.
Am advised that although 442 is in service, its been running on diesel for a day or so. Finishes tonight at AN so lets see, (Ta, xxxx)
Wed 3/6
5 start the day 424/31/48/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
Of the others 442 noted on diesel 1/6 & 2/6 finished at AN, 434 last noted 28/5 finished at AN, 450 Brodies since 10/4.
Thurs 4/6
5 start the day 424/31/42/48/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
Fri 5/6
As 4/6. Of note is that the DMU covering off SP is 156455 - so far on its 5th consecutive day.
Sat 6/6
5 start the day 424/31/48/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 156455 again for 6th day running.
Mon 8/6
5 start the week 424/31/42/48/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 156455 again,
However 458 failed at Southport at round 10.30 (another one!) with several following cancellations, before it apparently worked a Southport-Wigan late afternoon and then being removed from service, 156418 being procured from the Southport-Stalybridge-Ox Road diagram that is actually booked for a 4 car set, thus another 2 shortforms.
458 presumed to SP.
Tues 2/6
4 start the day 424/31/42/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH.
Am advised that although 442 is in service, its been running on diesel for a day or so. Finishes tonight at AN so lets see, (Ta, xxxx)
Wed 3/6
5 start the day 424/31/48/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
Of the others 442 noted on diesel 1/6 & 2/6 finished at AN, 434 last noted 28/5 finished at AN, 450 Brodies since 10/4.
Thurs 4/6
5 start the day 424/31/42/48/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
Fri 5/6
As 4/6. Of note is that the DMU covering off SP is 156455 - so far on its 5th consecutive day.
Sat 6/6
5 start the day 424/31/48/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 156455 again for 6th day running.
Mon 8/6
5 start the week 424/31/42/48/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP, 156455 again,
However 458 failed at Southport at round 10.30 (another one!) with several following cancellations, before it apparently worked a Southport-Wigan late afternoon and then being removed from service, 156418 being procured from the Southport-Stalybridge-Ox Road diagram that is actually booked for a 4 car set, thus another 2 shortforms.
458 presumed to SP.
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Tues 9/6
6 started the day for the 1st time since 12/5, 424/31/42/48/56/58.
Of the 2 others 434 missing since 28/5, 450 at Brodies since 10/4 (must be due back shortly!)
However 431 managed 06.06 2W40 Wigan-Stalybridge before failing - with subsequent return 2W05 07.52 Stalybridge- Southport cancelled, then 2O74 10.03 Southport-Ox Rd cancelled as far as Wigan Wallgate, with recently re-allocated 150220 then covering on 431's diagram- split from the Southport-Stalybridge/Ox Rd 4 car DMU diagram with 150128 left on its own, so 2 shortforms.
448 also appears to have run into difficulties running as 5W44 on 2W44 07.25 Southport-Stalybridge from Manchester Vic, with 2W09 09.52 Stalybridge-Southport cancelled, but appears to have sorted itself out and re-appeared back in service on 2076 12.03 Southport-Ox Road. starting at Wigan Wallgate.
6 started the day for the 1st time since 12/5, 424/31/42/48/56/58.
Of the 2 others 434 missing since 28/5, 450 at Brodies since 10/4 (must be due back shortly!)
However 431 managed 06.06 2W40 Wigan-Stalybridge before failing - with subsequent return 2W05 07.52 Stalybridge- Southport cancelled, then 2O74 10.03 Southport-Ox Rd cancelled as far as Wigan Wallgate, with recently re-allocated 150220 then covering on 431's diagram- split from the Southport-Stalybridge/Ox Rd 4 car DMU diagram with 150128 left on its own, so 2 shortforms.
448 also appears to have run into difficulties running as 5W44 on 2W44 07.25 Southport-Stalybridge from Manchester Vic, with 2W09 09.52 Stalybridge-Southport cancelled, but appears to have sorted itself out and re-appeared back in service on 2076 12.03 Southport-Ox Road. starting at Wigan Wallgate.
I think it was 5W44 that went to rescue the unit on the 0952. I didn't see what happened later or if they both came back together. I think the only reason the 5W44 went empty was the rescue train wasn't to carry passengers. So far as I know there wasn't anything wrong with it later
Ta.
With 448 restarting from Wigan it would appear that 431 may have been moved to SP.
Wed 10/6
5 started the day 424/31/42/48/56. 1 x 4 car 150?156 DMU covering off AN.
424 appears to have either had problems or went rescuing early doors as two or three services on the axis (Southport-Ox Road/Stalybridge) were cancelled, or cut short but appears now back in traffic.
431 that failed yesterday, went to SP and is back in service today but 458 that should have finished at SP last night went to AN and is not in service today..
Later:- Problems at Man Vic late afternoon with 66701 on a freight have caused several later services from Southport towards Stalybridge being cancelled at Wigan Wallgate, affecting 424 & 456 which are both scheduled to go to AN tonight but now not allocated.
5Q36 14.12 Kilmarnock-AN booked for 13/6, should be 769450 returning. Cancelled.
Thurs 11/6
4 start the day 431/42/48/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off AN.
Note that 424 & 456 are missing today, both 'disappeared' around tea time yesterday, both on the diagrams for ecs 769's that were booked to go to AN last night but probably didn't..........
442 ran into trouble on 2W64 17.24 Southport-Stalybridge, cancelled at Wigan Wallgate with traction equipment problems. Rest of diagram cancelled.
Fri 12/6
5 started the day 431/42/48/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off NH.
442 on 2O74 10.03 Southport-Ox Rd terminated at Bolton, later picking its diagram up on 2W12 11.27 Ox Rd-Southport starting at Bolton. Swaps tonight include 456 going to AN vice NH, 442 going to SP vice AN and 431 going to NH vice SP.
Sat 13/6
5 started the day 424/31/42/48/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN.
Todays casualty so far is 424, which managed ecs AN-Man Vic, then managed 06.08 Man Vic-Southport as far as Wigan Wallgate(traction equipment problems), cancelled from Wigan to Southport and return 2O72 08.03 Southport-Man Ox Rd starting from Wigan Wallgate with a single 156 DMU purloined from somewhere.
That makes at least 1 failure in traffic each day this week for the 769's.
Of the others 434 not seen since 28/5, 450 still at Brodies since 10/4, 456 went to AN 12/6.
Mon 15/6
4 started the day 424/42/48/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN, and 1 x 4 car 150 DMU (welcome home 150201 as part of this.....) off SP.
458 ran into trouble on 2W25 17.52 Stalybridge-Southport at Ince, 1 engine failed to start, managed to get to Southport after re-set at Wigan, worked return 2074 19.56 Southport-Stalybridge as far as Wigan W, then removed to SP, with 2074 and rest of diagram covered by 150143 split from 2N95 19.48 Headbolt Lane-Blackburn. (Ta for info, anon)
Tues 16/6
4 start the day 424/34/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 covering off NH, 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
434 back in traffic - first day since 28/5.
Later 434 failed on arrival at Southport with 2W18 14.27 Ox Rd-Southport, with rest of diagram simply cancelled. Appears that 434 has hitched a lift back to SP with 424 on 20.51 ECS Southport-SP.
So thats now 8 769 failures in last 8 running days.
Not 769's, but first two Man Vic-Headbolt Lane this morning cancelled between Wigan W and Headbolt lane (and returns) - according to RTT due to lack of terminal yard staff..................
Advance for 17/6
2nd attempt to return 769450 Kilmarnock-AN as 5Q36 13.30 departure using 37 running firstly as 0S08 05.30 Derby RTC-Kilmarnock.
Would just leave 448 to go to Brodies, went to AN last night and not out today.
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Wed 17/6
Just the 3 start the day 424/31/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 150 & 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
Some shuffling of diagrams already with no 769 to go to NH at end of service, and only 1 to AN.
2nd attempt to return 450 from Kilmarnock today cancelled, but paths now in for later in week. There is also a path 18/6 for a AN-Kilmarnock move for 448 but as todays doesn't appear to be running then plan B or C or D...
Thurs 18/6
6 start the day 424/31/34/42/56/58. First time since 9/6 (although there were failures that day).
Quite amazing as there are only 6 available, 448 being prepared for despatch to Brodies and 450 awaiting movement back from Brodies.
Moot point though, is that 434/42 which both failed earlier in the week, have both returned to service from SP & NH respectively without having to go to AN........
Just the 3 start the day 424/31/56. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 2 car 150 & 1 x 4 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
Some shuffling of diagrams already with no 769 to go to NH at end of service, and only 1 to AN.
2nd attempt to return 450 from Kilmarnock today cancelled, but paths now in for later in week. There is also a path 18/6 for a AN-Kilmarnock move for 448 but as todays doesn't appear to be running then plan B or C or D...
Thurs 18/6
6 start the day 424/31/34/42/56/58. First time since 9/6 (although there were failures that day).
Quite amazing as there are only 6 available, 448 being prepared for despatch to Brodies and 450 awaiting movement back from Brodies.
Moot point though, is that 434/42 which both failed earlier in the week, have both returned to service from SP & NH respectively without having to go to AN........
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diligentdave
Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2007
- Messages
- 437
Onto plan E then for 450/448 swap over. Won't happen this week. 448 should be back in service after Friday.
Ta, Dave as always.
Fri 19/6
6 start the day again, same units as 18/6 (above).
448 at AN (see above), 450 waiting a tow back from Brodies.
Later 458 has been removed from 2W16 13.27 Man. Ox Road-Southport at Wigan W, service cancelled, with return 15.24 Southport-Stalybrige starting from Wigan W with 150109, purloined from a 4 car DMU diagram on same axis.
Presume this was plan D or even E but as you say cancelled.
0N08 13.46 Derby-Carlisle was in for today, with 0S08 08.40 Carlisle-Kilmarnock and 5Q36 12.13 Kilmarnock-AN booked for Sat.
Sat 20/6
5 start the day. 424/34/42/48/56. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off SP.
448 back in service, finishing tonight at SP.
Mon 22/6
5 started the day. 424/31/34/56/58. 1 x 2 car 150 DMU (109)covering off SP - but replaced by a 4 car 150 DMU (110+201) off a Wigan-Manchester Vic that then goes to NH ECS, unit later split with 201 left at Southport whilst 110 continued on diagram.
However 456 ran into difficulty and was failed at Man Vic on 2W03 06.52 Stalybridge-Southport, with following services cancelled. Appears that it resumes back in traffic this pm.
769448 not in service, was awaiting move to Brodies but finished on Sat 20/6 at SP.
Tues 23/6
Advance note. Northern has P-coded around 120 services for tomorrow, which includes the cancellation of the entire Manchester Oxford Road-Southport service - thus depriving Wigan of its 1 train an hour to the 'south side', whilst leaving several trains per hour to Man. Victoria.
Seems once again, that an easy option has been taken by Northern as the max. temp around here tomorrow is a 'massive' 28 degrees.
All 769's confined to barracks, none out today.
Wed 24/6
None out.
Thurs 25/6 & Fri 26/6
Northern have extended the 'hot weather' timetable until Friday - at the same time advising that trains in the GM area are busy, but not just subject to short term cancellation as well as being short-formed (what's new??) , so doubt if any 769's will be out until at least Saturday. (Wigan forecast on Friday 28 degrees max with 40-45% chance of rain over a 12 hour period....). Can see Sat being the same at this rate and as Sundays are still an 'emergency' timetable since at least Dec 24 then this may be the last report until next week.
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ic31420
Member
Do northern / have northern and thus the taxpayer seen any reduction in the leasing costs for.theae units seeing as they're pretty dire and can't be used for a week?
After last weeks 'rest'
Mon 29/6
5 start the day
424/31/42/56/58. No services between Man Vic & Stalybridge due to 'block' around Miles Platting, so quite a bit of re-shuffling of diagrams.
Presume that 434 could not get off NH, and 448 (due to go to Brodies) last noted at SP last Mon night.
Mon 29/6
5 start the day
424/31/42/56/58. No services between Man Vic & Stalybridge due to 'block' around Miles Platting, so quite a bit of re-shuffling of diagrams.
Presume that 434 could not get off NH, and 448 (due to go to Brodies) last noted at SP last Mon night.
Thanks.
Appears that the number of 769's out this week is reduced because of the above, as there is nothing between Man Vic and Stalybridge, as well as the usual 769 non-availability.
Tues 30/6
4 out today 424/42/56/58 with one AN diagram covered by a 4 car 150 DMU, presume the sixth diagram as yesterday not needed.
Of the others 431 went to SP 29/6, 434 at NH since 22/6, 448 at SP since 20/6 (but may have moved and is due to go to Brodies), 450 still awaiting a tow back from Brodies
Wed 1/7
4 out today 431/42/56/58 with one AN diagram covered by 1 x 2 car 156 DMU, presume 6th diagram off NH not needed/re-worked.
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I caught 2J65 2109 Manchester Victoria to Wigan North Western (signs said final destination was Wallgate) at Bolton last night and I was amazed that it changed over to diesel there. Is this a regular occurrence and insurance against breaking down blocking the line at Ince?
According to RTT it arrived on time at Hindley but lost 5 mins by Ince and was 11 mins late at Wigan Station Junction.Not a regular occurence, although there have been occasions it's usually the other way when they won't change over from electric to diesel. 2J65 is on an amended schedule (starts Man Vic ) and is booked into North Western all week and could in theory have stayed on electric all the way to SP, after reveral at Wigan.
769442 does not appear to have had further problems and is out today.
Dspatula
Member
2J65 isn't booked to stop at Ince when the end destination changes to Wallgate most drivers power change at Bolton (I assume the rules revert to the old standard when Ince isn't booked).
Most likely the displays were correct at Bolton and the delay was caused by them rediverting back to North Western.
I travelled on the very first passenger 769 working through to Wigan North Western in the evening of Monday 28/07/2025 after approval had been given for AC working via Hindley. The train (2J65 20:51 Stalybridge to Wigan North Western) ran in AC mode all the way from Stalybridge to Wigan North Western, though I understand that the driver did query whether this was OK. The unit departed ECS for Allerton, still in AC mode.
1D53
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
- Messages
- 2,884
The driver on 2J65 didn't sign the route into North Western but did Wallgate so it was planned to divert, unfortunately the message didn't make it to the signaller hence the delay outside Wigan whilst the correct route was set.
Very odd. When route learning Wigan (Vic depot has it as a core route), both stations are covered. I cant honestly think which depot has drivers only signing Wallgate and not Northwestern. I believe 2J65 (which is STP'd this week) is a Wigan or Liverpool driver as the unit is scheduled to go to Allerton after arriving at Wigan, which makes it even more strange. Happy to be corrected though....
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