Doubly strange as I thought that the route into North Western would be used a backup in case the 769 couldn't proceed in diesel mode at Ince.
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
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Any idea where 424 is please?
1D53
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2006
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- 2,884
It went into Wallgate CS so perhaps the issue between WGN and Allerton?
Thurs 2/7
Again some very strange workings today with a couple on 'short days'.
431/42/56/58 out today in some form or other with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN.
769448 has today worked ECS from SP to AN, presumably getting ready fro a move to Brodies, being the last one to go.
Again some very strange workings today with a couple on 'short days'.
431/42/56/58 out today in some form or other with 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering off AN.
769448 has today worked ECS from SP to AN, presumably getting ready fro a move to Brodies, being the last one to go.
424 last noted going from Wigan NW to Allerton on 30/6, not re-appeared since.
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Thank you.
It went via Ashton Moss North Jct, Denton, Heaton Norris Jct, Stockport (where it reversed), then on to Springs Branch via Piccadilly. There is a route available at Brewery Jct through to Phillips Park Jct and on towards Ashton Moss North Jct/Stalybridge
Fri 3/7
4 start the day 434/42/56/58.
Amazed that 434 managed to escape NH by the route shown! Just shows what can be done still...
No 5J02 has run (AN-Man Vic), 06.32 Man Vic-Southport and return cancelled, next leg being covered by 1 x 2 car 150 DMU.
450 has gone Kilmarnock-AN on return from Brodies today, with 448 (last one) booked to go tomorrow.
Sat 4/7
4 in use today 431/34/42/56 although 434 appears to have only lasted until lunchtime having been stopped at Man Vic. Appears that 1 x 2 car 150 DMU has covered from later this afternoon after a few cancellations.
1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off AN.
Not clear where units will all finish tonight, normally 3 SP, 2 AN, 1 NH but there have been changes all week due to blockade and no trains between Man Vic-Stalybridge/Rochdale
448 has gone on 5Q08 AN-Kilmarnock today.
So best guesses are 424 AN since 30/6, 442/50/58 AN, 431/56 SP, with 434 either at SP or NH with 448 Brodies.
4 start the day 434/42/56/58.
Amazed that 434 managed to escape NH by the route shown! Just shows what can be done still...
No 5J02 has run (AN-Man Vic), 06.32 Man Vic-Southport and return cancelled, next leg being covered by 1 x 2 car 150 DMU.
450 has gone Kilmarnock-AN on return from Brodies today, with 448 (last one) booked to go tomorrow.
Sat 4/7
4 in use today 431/34/42/56 although 434 appears to have only lasted until lunchtime having been stopped at Man Vic. Appears that 1 x 2 car 150 DMU has covered from later this afternoon after a few cancellations.
1 x 2 car 150 DMU & 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering, both off AN.
Not clear where units will all finish tonight, normally 3 SP, 2 AN, 1 NH but there have been changes all week due to blockade and no trains between Man Vic-Stalybridge/Rochdale
448 has gone on 5Q08 AN-Kilmarnock today.
So best guesses are 424 AN since 30/6, 442/50/58 AN, 431/56 SP, with 434 either at SP or NH with 448 Brodies.
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Mon 6/7
'Normal' service resumes after the Miles Platting block of last week. However...
3 start the day 450/56/58. 450 first day back in traffic ex-Brodies for a week short of 3 months.
1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off NH, 1 x 156 DMU and 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering, both off SP.
Of the others, 424 went to AN 30/6, 431 went to SP 4/7, 434 at NH 4/7 (removed from traffic), 442 went to AN 4/7, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Some shuffling tonight with the covering 4 car 156 DMU set that should go to AN is going to NH.
'Normal' service resumes after the Miles Platting block of last week. However...
3 start the day 450/56/58. 450 first day back in traffic ex-Brodies for a week short of 3 months.
1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off NH, 1 x 156 DMU and 1 x 2 car 150 DMU covering, both off SP.
Of the others, 424 went to AN 30/6, 431 went to SP 4/7, 434 at NH 4/7 (removed from traffic), 442 went to AN 4/7, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Some shuffling tonight with the covering 4 car 156 DMU set that should go to AN is going to NH.
SECR 65
Member
It isn't at all brilliant that with 8 (or maybe 7 given Brodies work) units in traffic, only three are in operation. I would understand if some days there were only five out, but it's rubbish only to have three. I'm not blaming anyone and I'm not local to the area so don't know too much about what's going on but to have sub-50% fleet availability (apart from the class 139s!) is really very poor.
@david l just wanted to say that your daily breakdown of the units in operation is really interesting and very much appreciated.
@david l just wanted to say that your daily breakdown of the units in operation is really interesting and very much appreciated.
Ta, suffice it to say that this group of services (Southport-Man Vic/Stalybridge) are the worst perfroming on Northern, both in terms of cancellations, and particularly shortforms when the 769's go 'missing'. There are 6 diagrams which from 8 is 75%, achieved fewer than 8 days this year.
Mon 6/7 update
450 has changed diagrams and is now booked to finish at SP, not NH.
434 which was at NH having failed on Sat lunch at Man Vic has got to Wigan NW as 5J65 running in the path of 2J65 20.51 Stalybridge-Wigan NW which originally had 456 on 2J65 20.51 Stalybridge-Wigan NW as far as Man Vic (then train terminated at train operators request!).Presume that 456 has now gone to NH whilst 434 has now gone to AN as booked 5Y65.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Also appreciate Davids reports both here and elsewhere.
I reckon GWR and DfT could clearly see what kind of a shambles was inbound to North Downs, and took the correct approach to bin off the 769/9s. A great idea in theory but the conversion used by Porterbrook on the 319s seems to have been lacking.
Tues 7/7
6 start the day 424/31/42/50/56/58.
Looks like all the shuffling around yesterday, with a service cancelled has been (touch wood) worthwhile.
First day since 20/6 that 6 have started the day.
434 at AN since 6/7, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Wed 8/7
6 start the day 424/31/34/42/50/56. 448 to AN 7/7 as booked.
Had a look to see how many days this year that 6 have started and finished the day. 18 out of a possible 155 ish
Later 424 in trouble on 2O79 15.03 Southport-Man. Ox Rd, return 16.27 2W22 starting from Wigan Wallagte using 150228 purloined from a 4 car Blackburn-Headbolt Lane diagram.
Thurs 9/7
5 start the day 434/42/50/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
6 start the day 424/31/42/50/56/58.
Looks like all the shuffling around yesterday, with a service cancelled has been (touch wood) worthwhile.
First day since 20/6 that 6 have started the day.
434 at AN since 6/7, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Wed 8/7
6 start the day 424/31/34/42/50/56. 448 to AN 7/7 as booked.
Had a look to see how many days this year that 6 have started and finished the day. 18 out of a possible 155 ish
Later 424 in trouble on 2O79 15.03 Southport-Man. Ox Rd, return 16.27 2W22 starting from Wigan Wallagte using 150228 purloined from a 4 car Blackburn-Headbolt Lane diagram.
Thurs 9/7
5 start the day 434/42/50/56/58. 1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
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Looks like we have a pleasantly warm summer's day forecast tomorrow so Northern have cancelled half of it's trains including all on the Southport to Manchester Oxford Road route. The Stalybridge service is still running but I bet it's just 150s and 156s.
Strange way to run a railway!
Strange way to run a railway!
Fedupnorthern
Member
- Joined
- 2 May 2018
- Messages
- 45
Don't be surprised on a warm summer Friday. They don't run it for the passenger's convenience, after all.
I'm now on the third level of response from Northern to the reasons as to this, but particularly asking about the Saturday of the last 'Heatwave' when the temperature in Manchester was a massive 21 degrees (when there were 300 cancellations on the 'west side'), and the temperature was lower than that of the Leeds area who ran a 'normal' service..............along with Avanti, TPE & TfW on the west side running on the same tracks! West side = give up.
I can understand if they cancel late afternoon and early evening trains as the rails and points will have had chance to warm up. What I don't understand is why any morning trains, up to, say, 10am, and evening trains after 7pm have to be cancelled. If it's just to make train movements easier, they should have a better contingency timetable ready.
Fri 10/7
No 769's out, all confined to barracks. Northern West side give up.......again.
Sat 11/7
Back to a normal tt today, temperature all of 1 degree lower.............perhaps all the media stick Northern had in these parts (including BBC) has actually had some effect
434/42/50/56/58 start the day, 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP.
458 ran into trouble after working 2W18 Man Ox Rd-Southport, with 150218/71 being purlioned to cover.
No 769's out, all confined to barracks. Northern West side give up.......again.
Sat 11/7
Back to a normal tt today, temperature all of 1 degree lower.............perhaps all the media stick Northern had in these parts (including BBC) has actually had some effect
434/42/50/56/58 start the day, 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP.
458 ran into trouble after working 2W18 Man Ox Rd-Southport, with 150218/71 being purlioned to cover.
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317 forever
Established Member
I can vouch for that. I went to Southport (for a non-transport reason) and the Stalybridge service was all 150 or 156, with the Oxford Road service suspended.
FYI I caught 769450 today on 2W15 1252 Stalybridge - Southport, from Man Vic to Hindley, and it was in diesel mode for no obvious reason. The route via Salford Central (platforms) is closed today and tomorrow for track works, so 'everything' was running via Ordsall Lane Jn, but I don't see this as significant.
Sat 11/07 any 769s were required to use diesel mode by Network Rail due to local isolations around Salford Central. They didn't want them panning up at either Bolton or Salford Central. 769s tend to be power hungry on the wires, so it was more of a resilience thing for the electric services around Ordsall Lane.
450 was booked to finish at SP last night but went to AN, but there were several other swaps. 456 that should have gone to NH also went to AN, 434 went to NH not SP whilst the covering 150/156 combination went to SP, not AN as booked. Unsure as to where 458 finished up after retiring hurt, but educated guess would be SP.
I'm sure that a 769 in AC mode will draw less current than a 323 or 331, so I find the "tend to be power hungry on the wires" very strange. A better reason would be "because we can" to limit the current draw, and/or due to the location of the isolation sections. I wonder if the TPE 802s running through the area were similarly restricted?
Only going off the notice posted at the depot. I'm sure Network Rail wouldn't put that out on a notice unless its the reason...
Sun 12/7
Most unusually for a Sunday, 2 ECS moves today from AN to SP, 331026 on 5W33 and 769424 on 5W73,a long time. first 769 to move on a Sunday for quite a while.
Mon 13/7
4 were rostered to start the day 424/31/34/42 but 434 either never left NH or failed very soon after.
1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP, whilst 1 x 2 car 156 DMU has been purloined off a Clitheroe-Rochdale diagram to cover 434 after a couple of cancellations.
Of the others 450/56 both at AN since 11/7, whilst 458 failed on 11/7, ?? but not at SP, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
150218/71 have left SP as 5077 to work 13.00 2077 Southport-Man Ox Road and rest of diagram replacing 150102/466 (the covering 150/156 off SP) which are going onto 13.24 Southport-Stalybridge and rest of diagram....seems that someone has worked out that its the Open Golf in the area and 2 cars on Southports are not best plan with 156411/22 now doubling up (having started the day separately).
In addition seems that 'most' Leeds- Wigan Wallgate services are running through to Southport this week, due to the Open Golf. Amazing what can be done when the 'will' is there!!
Tues 14/7
5 start the day 424/31/42/50/56. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
As per yesterday all Southport-Stalybridge/Man Ox Road formed of 4 cars (except 1 turn). Open golf.
Will get interesting on Sunday when Open Golf final day as 1) 769's don't work 2) neither do conductors!
Later 434 has been noted at Liverpool L St working 5Z85 11.15 NH-AN.
Wed 15/7
6 started the day 424/34/42/50/56/58.
Several units have already swapped diagrams by lunchtime stepping up at Southport earlier this morning after 424 had a hissy fit.
424 now on the naughty step at SP - on the Bickershaw line headshunt, one diesel engine running as it arrived, went to sidings, now onto electric. 150218/71 despatched from SP to cover (as they did on Monday!!)
434 also had problems later on a Southport-Man Ox Road terminating at Bolton, but there have been signalling problems on the Bolton line from mid-afternoon onwards.
Thurs 16/7
4 start the day 424/42/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 (126/429) DMU covering off SP, and 1x 2 car 156 DMU (444) starting off Man Vic not AN, and to be joined by a 150 DMU (214) for lunchtime, off a Stalybridge-Southport diagram, itself replaced by what appears to be a 4 car 150 DMU (218/71) standby set, based around the Wigan area and utilised on Mon, Tues and today.
Of the others 431 went to AN 14/7, 434 failed at Bolton 15/7, and 450 went to AN 15/7, with 448 at Brodies.
434 being moved to AN tonight via 5Y65 22.02 Wigan NW-AN.
Fri 17/7
5 start the day 424/42/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (214/444) covering off SP.
Sat 18/7
6 started the day 431/34/42/50/56/58. However 456 appers to have been struggling and is being replaced by 150107/269 on the 13.24 Southport-Stalybridge, taking over rest of diagram. That's around 5 failures in traffic this week, which have been covered by 'spare' DMU's-presumably there as Open Golf spares.
On a Sunday the 769's have a day off, but there are several extras being provided for the Open Golf from the usual 'temporary' Sunday 2,4 or 6 hour gaps timetable, must have 'persuaded' some conductors to work!
Most unusually for a Sunday, 2 ECS moves today from AN to SP, 331026 on 5W33 and 769424 on 5W73,a long time. first 769 to move on a Sunday for quite a while.
Mon 13/7
4 were rostered to start the day 424/31/34/42 but 434 either never left NH or failed very soon after.
1 x 2 car 156 DMU covering off AN, 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU covering off SP, whilst 1 x 2 car 156 DMU has been purloined off a Clitheroe-Rochdale diagram to cover 434 after a couple of cancellations.
Of the others 450/56 both at AN since 11/7, whilst 458 failed on 11/7, ?? but not at SP, 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
150218/71 have left SP as 5077 to work 13.00 2077 Southport-Man Ox Road and rest of diagram replacing 150102/466 (the covering 150/156 off SP) which are going onto 13.24 Southport-Stalybridge and rest of diagram....seems that someone has worked out that its the Open Golf in the area and 2 cars on Southports are not best plan with 156411/22 now doubling up (having started the day separately).
In addition seems that 'most' Leeds- Wigan Wallgate services are running through to Southport this week, due to the Open Golf. Amazing what can be done when the 'will' is there!!
Tues 14/7
5 start the day 424/31/42/50/56. 1 x 4 car 156 DMU covering off SP.
As per yesterday all Southport-Stalybridge/Man Ox Road formed of 4 cars (except 1 turn). Open golf.
Will get interesting on Sunday when Open Golf final day as 1) 769's don't work 2) neither do conductors!
Later 434 has been noted at Liverpool L St working 5Z85 11.15 NH-AN.
Wed 15/7
6 started the day 424/34/42/50/56/58.
Several units have already swapped diagrams by lunchtime stepping up at Southport earlier this morning after 424 had a hissy fit.
424 now on the naughty step at SP - on the Bickershaw line headshunt, one diesel engine running as it arrived, went to sidings, now onto electric. 150218/71 despatched from SP to cover (as they did on Monday!!)
434 also had problems later on a Southport-Man Ox Road terminating at Bolton, but there have been signalling problems on the Bolton line from mid-afternoon onwards.
Thurs 16/7
4 start the day 424/42/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 (126/429) DMU covering off SP, and 1x 2 car 156 DMU (444) starting off Man Vic not AN, and to be joined by a 150 DMU (214) for lunchtime, off a Stalybridge-Southport diagram, itself replaced by what appears to be a 4 car 150 DMU (218/71) standby set, based around the Wigan area and utilised on Mon, Tues and today.
Of the others 431 went to AN 14/7, 434 failed at Bolton 15/7, and 450 went to AN 15/7, with 448 at Brodies.
434 being moved to AN tonight via 5Y65 22.02 Wigan NW-AN.
Fri 17/7
5 start the day 424/42/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (214/444) covering off SP.
Sat 18/7
6 started the day 431/34/42/50/56/58. However 456 appers to have been struggling and is being replaced by 150107/269 on the 13.24 Southport-Stalybridge, taking over rest of diagram. That's around 5 failures in traffic this week, which have been covered by 'spare' DMU's-presumably there as Open Golf spares.
On a Sunday the 769's have a day off, but there are several extras being provided for the Open Golf from the usual 'temporary' Sunday 2,4 or 6 hour gaps timetable, must have 'persuaded' some conductors to work!
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Mon 20/7
3 actually start the day 424/34/50, however 458 appears to come out to play later, but simply replacing 450 on its diagram.
1 x 2 car 156 DMU (464) covering off NH, whilst the 769's that start from AN are being covered by 2 car DMU's 1 x 150 (214) and 1 156 (475).
Already some re-allocation of diagrams shows 424 finishing tonight at AN, not SP.
Of the others 431/42/56/58 were all in traffic on Sat 18/7 but there were umpteen swaps/cancellations (trespass??) on 18/7.
Tues 21/7
5 started the day 424/31/34/42/58 with 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (411) covering off NH, although this came from Chester early morning!
442 started on 2W02 06.38 MAn Vic-Southport but appears to have started from Wigan Wallgate, unit for this should come from AN but that (5J02) was cancelled.
431 is currently in service but looks as though its day will be terminated short, has worked 2W66 Southport-Stalybridge as far as Wigan W. Train terminated and Wigan-Stalybridge and return to Wigan NW cancelled -431 has apparently gone to SP for an early night.
Unit also moving SP-AN as 5Y65 - probably 450 after its short day yesterday.
Wed 22/7
4 start the day 424/34/42/58. For the second time this week the two sets that come off AN are DMU's which would indicate some more severe demics than previously.
1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (129/452) and 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (428) covering off AN.
Of the others 431 was removed from service 21/7, 450 was removed from service 18/7, 456 was also removed from service 18/7 but due to trespass disruptions at Salford, with 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Thurs 23/7
3 started the day 434/50/58.
1 x 150/156 DMU (225/416) covering off AN, 1 x 156 DMU (464) covering off NH, 1 x 2 car 150 (113 - split from 272) covering off Wigan Wallgate - not SP.
Would appear that 424 has made a late afternoon appearance apparently from SP ECS to Southport, and has then worked the 1803 2072 Southport-Ox Rd, then return to Southport and ECS to SP, replacing 150113.
Fri 24/7
5 start the day 424/42/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (225/416) covering off SP.
Sat 25/7
4 start the day 424/34/50/58. 1 x 2car 150 DMU (108) covering off NH, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (428) covering off SP
Of the others 442 at Man Vic (see below, to move tonight with 450 to NH), 431 at AN? 21/7, 456 last noted 18/7 failed at Bolton, 448 at Brodies.
3 actually start the day 424/34/50, however 458 appears to come out to play later, but simply replacing 450 on its diagram.
1 x 2 car 156 DMU (464) covering off NH, whilst the 769's that start from AN are being covered by 2 car DMU's 1 x 150 (214) and 1 156 (475).
Already some re-allocation of diagrams shows 424 finishing tonight at AN, not SP.
Of the others 431/42/56/58 were all in traffic on Sat 18/7 but there were umpteen swaps/cancellations (trespass??) on 18/7.
Tues 21/7
5 started the day 424/31/34/42/58 with 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (411) covering off NH, although this came from Chester early morning!
442 started on 2W02 06.38 MAn Vic-Southport but appears to have started from Wigan Wallgate, unit for this should come from AN but that (5J02) was cancelled.
431 is currently in service but looks as though its day will be terminated short, has worked 2W66 Southport-Stalybridge as far as Wigan W. Train terminated and Wigan-Stalybridge and return to Wigan NW cancelled -431 has apparently gone to SP for an early night.
Unit also moving SP-AN as 5Y65 - probably 450 after its short day yesterday.
Wed 22/7
4 start the day 424/34/42/58. For the second time this week the two sets that come off AN are DMU's which would indicate some more severe demics than previously.
1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (129/452) and 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (428) covering off AN.
Of the others 431 was removed from service 21/7, 450 was removed from service 18/7, 456 was also removed from service 18/7 but due to trespass disruptions at Salford, with 448 at Brodies since 4/7.
Thurs 23/7
3 started the day 434/50/58.
1 x 150/156 DMU (225/416) covering off AN, 1 x 156 DMU (464) covering off NH, 1 x 2 car 150 (113 - split from 272) covering off Wigan Wallgate - not SP.
Would appear that 424 has made a late afternoon appearance apparently from SP ECS to Southport, and has then worked the 1803 2072 Southport-Ox Rd, then return to Southport and ECS to SP, replacing 150113.
Fri 24/7
5 start the day 424/42/50/56/58. 1 x 4 car 150/156 DMU (225/416) covering off SP.
Sat 25/7
4 start the day 424/34/50/58. 1 x 2car 150 DMU (108) covering off NH, 1 x 2 car 156 DMU (428) covering off SP
Of the others 442 at Man Vic (see below, to move tonight with 450 to NH), 431 at AN? 21/7, 456 last noted 18/7 failed at Bolton, 448 at Brodies.
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Not to sure how long its going to be there but 769442 has been stuck at Manchester Victoria Platform 2 since last night with Compressor issues meaning its brakes are stuck on, it was meant to end its day at Newton Heath but got cancelled at Victoria.
With this being stuck on Platform 2 it could cause some issues at Victoria today with services having to use other platforms to terminate.
With this being stuck on Platform 2 it could cause some issues at Victoria today with services having to use other platforms to terminate.
Still there as at 07:00 this morning, showing "5J95 FAIL" on track diagrams. Looking at RTT it seems to have completed the earlier parts of its diagram OK, arriving at Man Vic on time from Stalybridge on 2J95.
Presumably it needs another 769 to be coupled up to it to provide an air supply to charge the reservoirs; then the two together could go up to Newton Heath. This would block the station eastern throat for a while though....