Heatwave 22-27 June - effect on the UK Railway

[Peter0124]

Avanti have such a restriction, TfW don't in the north - there used to be a Sunday turn with 13 Llandudnos. The Cardiff Bay line may have a trip limit.

Just curious why there's a restriction on the same drivers operating shuttles?

 

[mickey]

Just curious why there's a restriction on the same drivers operating shuttles?

Increased safety risk from the monotony of the same route over and over and avoiding ‘operating on autopilot’. The Windsor branch has one too, in this case I think it was agreed with unions to spread work out over various branches on the same shift to prevent it.

 

[800002]

Just curious why there's a restriction on the same drivers operating shuttles?

Increased safety risk from the monotony of the same route over and over.

Yes, but I believe the Avanti have a condition that they don't drive the same piece of track / route twice in a shift.
This may be a global condition, regardless of the route.

Ie, you can't do two return trips (or 1 1/2 round trips even) to the same location on the same route.

 

[AndrewE]

Yes, but I believe the Avanti have a condition that they don't drive the same piece of track / route twice in a shift.
This may be a global condition, regardless of the route.

Ie, you can't do two return trips (or 1 1/2 round trips even) to the same location on the same route.

that does seem OTT to me. A mind-numbing shuttle is one thing, a couple of hours running the length of the country is completely different.

 

[Krokodil]

Yes, but I believe the Avanti have a condition that they don't drive the same piece of track / route twice in a shift.
This may be a global condition, regardless of the route.

Ie, you can't do two return trips (or 1 1/2 round trips even) to the same location on the same route.

that does seem OTT to me. A mind-numbing shuttle is one thing, a couple of hours running the length of the country is completely different.

It was a concession that Virgin gave ASLEF (presumably in return for something else) that would end once cab signalling started. The cab signalling is still yet to happen.

 

[M60lad]

Due to the reduced timetables will this have an affect to services possibly returning to normal on Saturday due to units/Crew possibly being out of place?

 

[Porty]

I saw way up the thread someone having to make decisions about travelling to London for onward Eurostar to France?
For anyone else in the same predicament it may be some reassurance that it's been 36C every day since last Wednesday in southern Germany (4 days) and Switzerland and there has been no noticeable impact on services at all. Every train the aircon has been working. Heading back to Germany today so here's hoping.
Having said all that temperatures in central and eastern France are higher than Germany I think.

 

[800002]

Due to the reduced timetables will this have an affect to services possibly returning to normal on Saturday due to units/Crew possibly being out of place?

Nothing is guaranteed.
Crew will likely end up okay i would suggest. It's a kind of planned disruption. Teams have known and been planning for days.

Units is where it will fall over, however.

 

[Failed Unit]

It was a concession that Virgin gave ASLEF (presumably in return for something else) that would end once cab signalling started. The cab signalling is still yet to happen.

Having used Eurostar yesterday the trains are fine. Gare Du Nord isn’t the best. Very hot in the passport scanner queues and you are not allowed to take water beyond the ticket scanner. A lot of trains yesterday were late because of delays getting everyone processed.

It is something to consider.

I was on one of the cancelled trains so had to move my ticket forward from 1007 to 0738. It was very hot then.

 

[Chriso]

One interesting quirk I've noticed since yesterday is that the additional Great Northern Kings Cross - Peterborough services during the peaks have been calling at Arlesey, but no additional calls at Sandy or Hitchin. Is this something they're doing as part of the mitigations for the hot weather? Or is this actually related to the closure of the MML between Bedford and Luton?

I believe this was at the request of the Flitwick MP so commuters from there could drive over (only 10 min drive)

 

[TUC]

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

 

[dk1]

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

I would call all of them essential and would just be travelling anyway.

 

[TUC]

Yes, but I believe the Avanti have a condition that they don't drive the same piece of track / route twice in a shift.
This may be a global condition, regardless of the route.

Ie, you can't do two return trips (or 1 1/2 round trips even) to the same location on the same route.

Hard to see how that is any more difficult or risky than a bus driver doing the same route all day.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Very hot in the passport scanner queues and you are not allowed to take water beyond the ticket scanner.

Have they changed the rules recently? I travelled in May during the heatwave and there was no restrictions on liquids whatsoever.

You’d probably pass out in Gare du Nord in this weather, without a lot of fluids. It was bad enough in May.

 

[AndrewE]

Hard to see how that is any more difficult or risky than a bus driver doing the same route all day.

I thought about that, but whereas a train driver "just" has to observe and obey a succession of signals on a private right-of-way and control his or her train, a bus driver has a continuously changing environment (with irrational/non-rule-obeying other road users) to monitor and react to - besides steering the thing...

 

[dk1]

Hard to see how that is any more difficult or risky than a bus driver doing the same route all day.

The agreement is just something that was agreed between Virgin West Coast and ASLEF. It’s not something that is commonplace with train driving across the UK.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this is a UK Railway discussion about the effect of the heatwave on rail. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they must start a new thread elswhere.
I have split off some posts about schools which can be found here:

Should schools in the UK be fitted with air conditioning?

Moderator note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heatwave-from-22-june-effect-on-the-uk-railway.303680/ There is a discussion on Good morning Britain about schools closing. That has a wide impact because people then need to find childcare. Clearly we need to install air con in...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Failed Unit]

Have they changed the rules recently? I travelled in May during the heatwave and there was no restrictions on liquids whatsoever.

You’d probably pass out in Gare du Nord in this weather, without a lot of fluids. It was bad enough in May.

They took issue with the fact the bottle was open. If I had a large quantity of water in a seal bottle they might have be happy. It appears they are more concerned about spillage over passengers passing out. The seem to be very different in France, such as in London you can actually take coffee through the scanner and they give you something to keep it upright. In France you have to take electrical equipment out your back (slowing things down which isn’t welcome in the heat). I assume that is French law as if it was Eurostar they would do it everywhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2026 ==

The air con works fine in my office. And my car. Should be fine in a school. I absolutely agree with your point about stopping the sun shining through windows. But I suspect your simple solution would be put in the too difficult pile.

Keeping with trains, they kept the blinds down on the Eurostar yesterday to help the AC. I then travelled on a class 700 after Eurostar. It is amazing how noticeable the heat coming from the sun through the window was making, so much so I swapped sides of the train. Although I think fitting blinds to all trains will bring with it bigger issues.

 

[TUC]

The agreement is just something that was agreed between Virgin West Coast and ASLEF. It’s not something that is commonplace with train driving across the UK.

But that's where the credibility of the arguement breaks down. If something like this is a safety risk then it is a risk in every TOC, or it isn't a risk. Even if one wanted to argue it is a particular risk on specific types of route, then that is the guiding principle, not who the TOC is,

 

[dk1]

But that's where the credibility of the arguement breaks down. If something like this is a safety risk then it is a risk in every TOC, or it isn't a risk. Even if one wanted to argue it is a particular risk on specific types of route, then that is the guiding principle, not who the TOC is,

That may be so but it doesn’t get away with the fact that it’s a binding agreement. Nothing much can be done about that if either side is not prepared to budge. We are where we are.

 

[The exile]

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

But there are plenty of people whose travel fits into none of those categories (a lot represented on this forum, for a start). A lot of people can vary how they get into work (or indeed whether they do so at all). To a certain extent it is also covering the operators’ backs. In this part of the world (Bristol) area it has been noticeable that the morning peak has been relatively unaffected, but by the time those people are heading home, there’s a service meltdown and if the conditions in the cabs of turbos with failed a/c are anything like those in the passenger saloon, I’m not surprised.

 

[Failed Unit]

But there are plenty of people whose travel fits into none of those categories (a lot represented on this forum, for a start). A lot of people can vary how they get into work (or indeed whether they do so at all). To a certain extent it is also covering the operators’ backs. In this part of the world (Bristol) area it has been noticeable that the morning peak has been relatively unaffected, but by the time those people are heading home, there’s a service meltdown and if the conditions in the cabs of turbos with failed a/c are anything like those in the passenger saloon, I’m not surprised.

Likewise when you look at the performce on Great Northern in the evenings over the past few days it is worse then normal. With the significant quantities of cancelations, having a few people less on the route is better for those that have no choice but to travel.

 

[800002]

Hard to see how that is any more difficult or risky than a bus driver doing the same route all day.

But that's where the credibility of the arguement breaks down. If something like this is a safety risk then it is a risk in every TOC, or it isn't a risk. Even if one wanted to argue it is a particular risk on specific types of route, then that is the guiding principle, not who the TOC is,

Welcome to the railway.
It's like the maximum driving time or maximum miles on a diagram will be just short of a double round trip on a medium sized railway.

 

[bramling]

I believe this was at the request of the Flitwick MP so commuters from there could drive over (only 10 min drive)

Yes it was requested by the local MPs as a result of the Bedford mishap. MPs love doing this stuff, they did it after the 2018 timetable issues, look what I have “secured” for you…

 

[Silver Cobra]

I believe this was at the request of the Flitwick MP so commuters from there could drive over (only 10 min drive)

That makes sense. I had a feeling this was more likely related to the MML situation rather than the hot weather.

One bit of 'common sense' I've noticed today is that LNER are seemingly allowing passengers to board their services at Stevenage to travel to Kings Cross. Their services are being shown on the departure boards at Stevenage as bound for Kings Cross, rather than as 'set down only' (Lumo are still showing as 'set down only').

 

[yorkie]

Never mind.
I think I recall a previous discussion on learning after major incidents, and emergency planning exercises, but nothing ever changes.
I doubt there is any long term costed planning for climate change on the railway at all.

That's beyond the scope of this thread.

Feel free to create a new one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2026 ==

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

Yes it's poor wording, as discussed in previous threads. However the railway is addicted to this sort of thing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2026 ==

That makes sense. I had a feeling this was more likely related to the MML situation rather than the hot weather.

One bit of 'common sense' I've noticed today is that LNER are seemingly allowing passengers to board their services at Stevenage to travel to Kings Cross. Their services are being shown on the departure boards at Stevenage as bound for Kings Cross, rather than as 'set down only' (Lumo are still showing as 'set down only').

LNER don't do this willingly even if there is a very sparse GTR service, so I suspect someone has told them to do this at a very high level. And quite right too.

 

[deltic]

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

Completely agree. It would be more sensible to say due to extreme weather conditions there is a high risk of short notice cancellations, delays and uncomfortable travel conditions and you might want to change your travel arrangements. To tell people not to travel in one breath and say trains are running in the next. just sends a very confusing message to people.

I am travelling today but have taken advantage of Avanti's sensible approach of allowing you to travel on a different train than booked to hopefully avoid the hottest part of the day.

 

[The exile]

Completely agree. It would be more sensible to say due to extreme weather conditions there is a high risk of short notice cancellations, delays and uncomfortable travel conditions and you might want to change your travel arrangements. To tell people not to travel in one breath and say trains are running in the next. just sends a very confusing message to people.

I am travelling today but have taken advantage of Avanti's sensible approach of allowing you to travel on a different train than booked to hopefully avoid the hottest part of the day.

Isn’t the actual advice “avoid all but essential travel”, which is a very different thing. OK, people’s interpretation of essential will vary (as indeed will the “neutral” essential hurdle) but it makes it pretty clear to most that they’re taking a risk by travelling.

 

[Russel]

I do find the 'only travel if essential' messages bizarre.

If people need to get to work, then need to get there unless their employer separately has made other arrangements,

If you are travelling because you have tickets for a show, tonight is the night you have tickets for.

If you are attending a family member's birthday, today's the birthday.

Life goes on.

I do agree, I find it's one of those things where you just have to make a judgement decision for yourself, taking into consideration your own level of health, how you cope with heat etc...

I travelled to and from work on Tuesday by train, yes it was a bit unpleasant but I waited in the shade, carried a bottle of water and the train was air-conditioned, at no point did I feel unsafe, I'd be doing the same today but I'm WFH as our sons school is closed.

 

[37069]

I was in London this week for work (having travelled from Cumbria). Our commute in from Zone 6 to Waterloo was as busy as usual, but Waterloo itself seemed considerably quieter. I got the impression that people commuting from outside London weren't travelling, but those within London were. Presumably because a lot of their workplaces will have been cooler than their homes.