Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[Transilien]

You sit and comment on Railforum, they like to look at and share pictures of the Hitachi fleet. What is the problem?
Each to their own.

I’m not being serious, I don’t actually judge people based on what trains that they like. The Hitachis aren’t my cup of tea but of course others will like them more. As you say, each to their own.

 

[Fincra5]

There is a good reason....
..familiarity.
Staff who have been around for a long time, including Drivers, are used to yellow ends

My TOC has Black Ends and Yellow Ends and Little Yellow Ends.

It's the lights you see on the modern MU!

 

[norbitonflyer]

I believe in the event of a complete failure of headlights, the train would be forced to run at a very low speed (can't remember exactly) and be pulled out of service immediately.

At Bedford the train without a yellow end was not moving at all. (As far as is known its lights were working though)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yellow ends were always about being seen by someone who the train could run down e.g. track workers. It isn't about identifying the rear end of a train - there is no requirement (and never was one) for the rear end of a train to be yellow, LHCS generally isn't. That's why the requirement not to have it is about the headlamps. That DMUs and EMUs have yellow at the back is just because there's a cab there.

 

[vuzzeho]

Yellow ends were always about being seen by someone who the train could run down e.g. track workers. It isn't about identifying the rear end of a train - there is no requirement (and never was one) for the rear end of a train to be yellow, LHCS generally isn't. That's why the requirement not to have it is about the headlamps. That DMUs and EMUs have yellow at the back is just because there's a cab there.

True, and headlights cover that, which is why the requirement has been removed.

Trying to get a bit more back on topic, I don't think we'll see GBR's approach to the yellow front ends until the TPE fleet or LNWR/WMT Aventras are done. I suppose possibly Chiltern's 196s could be an opportunity since they don't have yellow fronts, and at this point I actually don't think they'll ever enter service with Arriva Chiltern, so might just go straight into GBR livery after renationalisation ready for EWR.

 

[RUK]

I don't think we'll see GBR's approach to the yellow front ends until the TPE fleet or LNWR/WMT Aventras are done. I suppose possibly Chiltern's 196s could be an opportunity since they don't have yellow fronts, and at this point I actually don't think they'll ever enter service with Arriva Chiltern, so might just go straight into GBR livery after renationalisation ready for EWR.

If the idea is that it’s a national organisation, and one of the benefits of that is that rolling stock can be more easily cascaded between operators, then presumably everything will get yellow ends, to make that easier, without having to take the time to re-paint them with each cascade? I seem to recall the reason why Greater Anglia still have yellow ends with their new rolling stock is because they have a lot of level crossings on their routes, so if the rolling stock is cascaded to such a route, then it may need to have the yellow ends. Plus, just for consistency of the livery in all places, with all rolling stock, including those which don’t have the brighter lights.

 

[vuzzeho]

If the idea is that it’s a national organisation, and one of the benefits of that is that rolling stock can be more easily cascaded between operators, then presumably everything will get yellow ends, to make that easier, without having to take the time to re-paint them with each cascade? I seem to recall the reason why Greater Anglia still have yellow ends with their new rolling stock is because they have a lot of level crossings on their routes, so if the rolling stock is cascaded to such a route, then it may need to have the yellow ends. Plus, just for consistency of the livery in all places, with all rolling stock, including those which don’t have the brighter lights.

Well, there's not really a requirement to have yellow fronts anymore, so it wouldn't matter when being cascaded if the stock didn't require yellow fronts in the first place, like with the Mk5As and 196s going to Chiltern - no need to add yellow fronts. Units without bright enough lights would have to have the yellow fronts anyway. Besides, the fact that the livery has a region name on the side means some work will need to be done.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Meanwhile, back on topic.... Southern-wise are 387.172 and 701006 the only 2 so far, in GBR wrap?

 

[vuzzeho]

Meanwhile, back on topic.... Southern-wise are 387.172 and 701006 the only 2 so far, in GBR wrap?

Yes. So far...

 

[Northerngirl]

Yes. So far...

We appear to be safe for a little longer

 

[OneOfThe48]

We appear to be safe for a little longer

At least for another 5 days

 

[physics34]

Oooo

At least for another 5 days

Tell us, tell us....

 

[Russel]

Oooo

Tell us, tell us....

From what I've read in a couple of places, there is a 720 tucked away at Ilford in GBR livery ready for the opening of Cambridge South.

Obviously the usual caveats apply around internet rumours!

 

[Mat17]

When are the 150s getting this?

 

[vuzzeho]

When are the 150s getting this?

Honestly, probably never. Other than promo units and vinyls (when GBR starts existing), the plan right now is for units to only get it when they require a repaint. With replacements around the corner, I highly doubt they'll ever be on 15xs (other than the soon-to-be-refurbed SW 158s and 159s), Networkers, or even the IC225 sets. Also would be a bad look for GBR.

 

[Sorcerer]

Honestly, probably never. Other than promo units and vinyls (when GBR starts existing), the plan right now is for units to only get it when they require a repaint. With replacements around the corner, I highly doubt they'll ever be on 15xs (other than the soon-to-be-refurbed SW 158s and 159s), Networkers, or even the IC225 sets. Also would be a bad look for GBR.

I understand that this might be the most cost efficient way of doing things but it does seem rather strange that units will only ever get the new livery when they require a repaint. The Pendolinos got their flowing silk livery in the mid-life repaint, then that was subsequently removed two years later to a plain white livery, then followed by new Avanti West Coats wrapping. I understand not doing old trains but surely there's a compromise for newer stock?

 

[CR165022]

From what I've read in a couple of places, there is a 720 tucked away at Ilford in GBR livery ready for the opening of Cambridge South.

Obviously the usual caveats apply around internet rumours!

Let's just hope a rumour is as far as it goes. Don't need another train ruined by this livery!

 

[Russel]

Let's just hope a rumour is as far as it goes. Don't need another train ruined by this livery!

Yeah

To be fair after seeing it in the flesh, I don't actually mind the GBR livery, I still think they need to drop the decals on the middle vehicles but it's not bad... That said, I do really like the GA livery, it's smart, so it'll be a shame to loose it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wasn't it suggested the first two GBR Azumas would emerge in late June, with two per month then after?

 

[800001]

Wasn't it suggested the first two GBR Azumas would emerge in late June, with two per month then after?

That is what my LNER source told me

 

[vuzzeho]

I understand that this might be the most cost efficient way of doing things but it does seem rather strange that units will only ever get the new livery when they require a repaint. The Pendolinos got their flowing silk livery in the mid-life repaint, then that was subsequently removed two years later to a plain white livery, then followed by new Avanti West Coats wrapping. I understand not doing old trains but surely there's a compromise for newer stock?

I agree. While I get that it's cost-effective, it also doesn't make sense at all. Why would we have GWR trains running around in a completely different livery for the next 10 or so years? Being real, I doubt that it's actually going to be the way it happens. They'll probably start to vinyl trains more and then when GBR exists, paint them. I'm pretty sure Avanti trains will need to be rebranded immediately because Avanti is a very branded name (more than, c2c which is also soon to go). It just makes sense, and makes the change more visible and less tacky.

Wasn't it suggested the first two GBR Azumas would emerge in late June, with two per month then after?

They've got 5 days! Maybe this is a thought for another thread, but surely if LNER is to become GBR East Coast, surely this change couldn't really be done without a whole 'switch-of-TOC' style rebrand, could it? LNER is quite a distinct brand and it shares basically no similarity to a potential East Coast name.

 

[Sorcerer]

I agree. While I get that it's cost-effective, it also doesn't make sense at all. Why would we have GWR trains running around in a completely different livery for the next 10 or so years? Being real, I doubt that it's actually going to be the way it happens. They'll probably start to vinyl trains more and then when GBR exists, paint them. I'm pretty sure Avanti trains will need to be rebranded immediately because Avanti is a very branded name (more than, c2c which is also soon to go). It just makes sense, and makes the change more visible and less tacky.

I think come 2028 the GWR 800s will be about ten years old which seems like a fairly decent time for a repaint that could last the rest of it's life. The Pendolinos will need one regardless of it being the fourth change in livery in a decade because those things are going to last as long as the HST in my opinion, and with how badly delayed HS2 is that is very much a good thing!

 

[OneOfThe48]

Maybe this is a thought for another thread, but surely if LNER is to become GBR East Coast, surely this change couldn't really be done without a whole 'switch-of-TOC' style rebrand, could it? LNER is quite a distinct brand and it shares basically no similarity to a potential East Coast name.

‘Great British Railways | LNER’

Might not like it, but solves that problem for you…

 

[physics34]

Yeah

To be fair after seeing it in the flesh, I don't actually mind the GBR livery, I still think they need to drop the decals on the middle vehicles but it's not bad... That said, I do really like the GA livery, it's smart, so it'll be a shame to loose it.

Imdeed the GA livery is smart and wouldve been good enough as a national livery IMO

 

[saismee]

Imdeed the GA livery is smart and wouldve been good enough as a national livery IMO

Maybe swap a bit of the red for blue, either on the doors or somewhere else and it would look quite good still.

 

[Trackman]

When are the 150s getting this?

Dear lord, please no.

 

[Ben Anslow]

Dear lord, please no.

In agreement with that personally think the livery should have been kept exclusive to intercity and cross country trains and had separate regional livery’s like now. It would have been much better to have complete separate identity’s

 

[officewalla]

Monumental waste of time and money as the ToCs will more or less continue doing what they are doing now but with an additional layer of bureaucracy to navigate.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They've got 5 days! Maybe this is a thought for another thread, but surely if LNER is to become GBR East Coast, surely this change couldn't really be done without a whole 'switch-of-TOC' style rebrand, could it? LNER is quite a distinct brand and it shares basically no similarity to a potential East Coast name.

East Coast (and West Coast for that matter) are not very helpful names for "normals" to understand where they go. East Coast serves nowhere on the east coast south of the Tyne, and West Coast nowhere on the coast at all in England (although you get a glimpse of it at Hest Bank, and it does serve the coast of North Wales).

Some members of the general public also get confused by there being separate "Northern" and "Great Northern" operating comapnies, especially as one of them gets no further north than Norfolk. And when SWT ran webchats, they were full of people asking about services in Cornwall.

At least East Midland services all pass through the East Midlands, even if Norwich and Liverpool are not the first places you would expect to find such branding. Likewise, all Chiltern services except the Stratford on Avon shuttle pass through the Chiltern Hills, although Birmingham is a long way from them.

EDIT

And not all Transpennine services actually cross the Pennines.

 

[physics34]

Monumental waste of time and money as the ToCs will more or less continue doing what they are doing now but with an additional layer of bureaucracy to navigate.

Im hoping togetherness cuts bureaucracy and barriers... in fact last week a 377 had a fault at watford... they got a fitter to come from Hornsey to fix it rather than selhurst. Not sure that wouldve happened in privatised days