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D&G Buses

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6Gman

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1 May 2012
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It's worse than that!

Cheshire East has the second lowest passenger journeys per capita in England. Only Rutland is lower. And before anyone then says... ah, well that's testimony to how bad D&G are... in 2010, it was still the 4th lowest ahead of Rutland, Central Beds and Wokingham. Aside from bits of Crewe, the rest is fairly affluent, low density rural operation.
So, Cheshire East inherited a poor performance but made it worse.

Nothing new there then!
 

33117

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24 May 2017
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163
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Macclesfield
Another new arrival for longton is a short wheelbase solo SR YJ69CPY.

Formerly a traws cymru vehicle & was apparently based in cardiff.
 

sonic2009

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Crewe
Another new arrival for longton is a short wheelbase solo SR YJ69CPY.

Formerly a traws cymru vehicle & was apparently based in cardiff.
Used to run for Stagecoach South Wales, out of Merthyr Tydfil/Brecon.
 

Martin1988

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Bristol
Just returned from a few days in the Cheshire East area where I did several bus trips, mainly on the 38 but also going on the 31 between Crewe and Northwich and the 37 between Crewe and Sandbach.

Yesterday afternoon I caught a 38 between Congleton and Haslington at around 1530 and it was full and standing upon leaving Sandbach.

I also had a ride on a 37 between Northwich and Sandbach yesterday and the bus seemed to fill up more the nearer we got to Sandbach, following which there were a good number waiting to travel towards Crewe.

Without going over old ground this does make me think, should the 37 and 38 be more regular and should they maybe have higher capacity buses?
 

Statto

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Before they left the area, Arriva allocated sapphire standard deckers to the 37/38 (well certainly 38), but you would get a Pulsar allocated to the 38 now & again, as for the frequency it's ok as it is, & has been that way for years.

Remember the 37 is every 30 minutes with the 31 between Winsford & Northwich, & every 30 minutes with the 38 between Sandbach & Crewe, so it's tricky to alter the frequencies without affecting the 31/37/38.

D&G could do with deckers for some of the routes, but doubt they will buy any.
 

daodao

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Dunham/Bowdon
D&G could do with deckers for some of the routes, but doubt they will buy any.
Why?

None of D&G's routes are high frequency (every 12 minutes or more often) and there are several low bridges (such as in Macclesfield) that preclude the use of double deck buses.

They are only warranted, given their higher capital and running costs, where extra capacity is needed for much of the day. School traffic is best provided for by additional services at the specific times when a single deck bus can't cope.

The daytime weekday frequency of D&G route 37 between Winsford and Sandbach was recently increased to half hourly.
 
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sonic2009

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Double decker buses won't fit at Crewe depot, it's already full as it is.

The 37/38 between Sandbach & Crewe & Crewe & Sandbach will always be full or busy around the school times as there is children who go to Sandbach schools.
 

markymark2000

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Without going over old ground this does make me think, should the 37 and 38 be more regular and should they maybe have higher capacity buses?
Just remember that the 38s were deckers before D&G took over. Given their lack of taste for deckers though, they would need to look at increasing the frequency. Which is a dead cert not going to happen unless the council pay up for it (because... why do something off your own back when you can beg the council to cough up for it and most of the time they do, and even better you can keep the revenue longer term too).

The 37 is now more frequent than it has been for a while, which may help slightly longer term if young people start to see value in holding back 30 minutes for the next bus (longer chat with mates, go to the shop etc, in return they get a quieter bus)

The 37/38 between Sandbach & Crewe & Crewe & Sandbach will always be full or busy around the school times as there is children who go to Sandbach schools.
if buses are getting full, then bigger buses or higher frequencies are needed around those times. A full bus not only risks people being left behind on lower frequency routes (like the 38), but it's also unpleasant for passengers.
For non students it makes people want to travel less by bus and pushes the 'bus is bad' rhetoric. And for young people, if your experience on a bus is being crammed in to a single decker bus or being left behind due to it being full, it doesn't exactly make you want to use the bus at weekends, school holidays or even generally when they leave school.
In short, full crush loaded buses are a bad advert for local bus services, and as much as some operator staff and management froth at the mouth just at the thought of full, standing and crush loaded buses (I've seen this a few times on social media groups from various levels of office based staff at a large operator), the reality is that it does more harm than good long term.

Plus, maybe if D&G provided more capacity on the 37 and 38, then other bus operators wouldn't have so much of a market for dedicated commercial school services. I always find it quite comical how Mikro manages so many commercial school buses duplicating over D&Gs network, existing purely because D&G point blank refuse to provide sufficient capacity or work with schools unless, as per, someone throws them a few £k from the tax pot.
 

Martin1988

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Thanks to those who have taken the time to respond.

I was under the impression that at the end of Arriva's time in the area, the 38 only had single deck vehicles allocated (Pulsars) with Mellor Stratas and Solos appearing on the late night workings. Certainly when I visited during 2022 that was the case. The frequency was definitely higher then of course as a result of both Arriva and D&G operating over that corridor.

My experience of the 37 last week was that the loadings were lighter at the start of the journey (Northwich) but the bus increasingly filled up as we reached Sandbach and then departed for Crewe with a good load on. This says to me that Sandbach to Crewe is the busier section of the route but admittedly I've not experienced the 37 enough to know for certain. I was definitely the only person on board who went all the way from Northwich to Sandbach, as was the case when I did that trip a few years ago with Arriva and I've also previously had that in the other direction from Crewe to Northwich.

In addition, whilst I was riding the 31 towards Northwich we passed a service heading in the other direction which looked to be virtually full. I definitely remember Arriva using deckers on the 31 and 37 throughout 2022 and early 2023 but I don't think it was every journey.

I understand there are a variety of dedicated school bus services between Haslington and Sandbach. With this in mind, why would there be any need for school passengers to have to use the public bus service to make this journey?
 

Simon75

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I understand there are a variety of dedicated school bus services between Haslington and Sandbach. With this in mind, why would there be any need for school passengers to have to use the public bus service to make this journey?
Historical PMT did run a few double deckers for a K36/36 services , from Crewe to Sandbach schools
 

TheSel

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Always wondered what the 'K' stood for.
It didn't really "stand for" anything. It was a legacy from Crosville days, when - from July 1959 - Crosville's route numbering system was [generally] one letter followed by one or two digits. 'K' was for Crewe area routes.

Much more on Ron Hughes excellent website, in particular here. Link to When PMT took over much of Crosville's Crewe area operations, the system was perpetuated for operations in that area - partly because the guy in charge was very much a Crosville enthusiast, despite working for PMT.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Going back to @Martin1988 original point... There's a few journeys where passenger numbers are higher and that is leading to standees. Does that really indicate an enhancement of frequencies, or a need to have deckers running all day when the majority of journeys are not that busy - as @daodao says, there's a capital cost and the running cost of an e400 vs an e200. On the latter, I reckon with some fag packet maths that it's about an extra £50k a year in fuel on the 38. Start adding extra vehicles on enhanced frequencies and that is soon dwarfed.

People should remember that this isn't superb bus operating territory, not helped by rather lukewarm operators (Arriva, First) and councils in the past.
 

capitalpotter

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It didn't really "stand for" anything. It was a legacy from Crosville days, when - from July 1959 - Crosville's route numbering system was [generally] one letter followed by one or two digits. 'K' was for Crewe area routes.

Much more on Ron Hughes excellent website, in particular here. Link to When PMT took over much of Crosville's Crewe area operations, the system was perpetuated for operations in that area - partly because the guy in charge was very much a Crosville enthusiast, despite working for PMT.
Thanks for clearing that up
 

markymark2000

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I understand there are a variety of dedicated school bus services between Haslington and Sandbach. With this in mind, why would there be any need for school passengers to have to use the public bus service to make this journey?
They only exist because Arriva and D&G have for a long time not provided sufficient capacity. You very rarely get commercial school buses which are viable when the core bus network accommodates the journeys.
 

DS25

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DG Buses are venturing further into Shropshire (and Wales!) after winning 5 Shropshire Council tendered routes:

23: Town - Belvidere
26: Town - Meole Village
64: Hanley - Market Drayton - Shrewsbury
301: Market Drayton Town Service
558: Shrewsbury - Montgomery
 
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SeanM1997

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2 Feb 2016
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18 Hanley - Leek

We operate this service on behalf of Staffordshire County Council and following contract renewal, Stantons of Stoke will be operating this service from Monday 29th June 2026.

Last day of service for D&G Bus will be Sunday 28th June.
DG Buses are venturing further into Shropshire (and Wales!) after winning 3 Shropshire Council tendered routes:

64: Hanley - Market Drayton - Shrewsbury
301: Market Drayton Town Service
558: Shrewsbury - Montgomery
Wonder how they will be operated - thats a big dead run from both Crewe and Stoke - I know they won't, but it would be good to get a daily Crewe - Market Drayton service, reducing dead mileage and connect the two towns
 

DS25

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Wonder how they will be operated - thats a big dead run from both Crewe and Stoke - I know they won't, but it would be good to get a daily Crewe - Market Drayton service, reducing dead mileage and connect the two towns
Yeah, especially the 558, which I presume would end up interworking with the 64 now, very shocked D&G won that, I presumed either Tanat, Minsterley or Lakeside would win that one.
On the page it says the 558 will be operated by ’New buses’ and the 64 by ’Over 5 years old’ buses

 

SeanM1997

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Yeah, especially the 558, which I presume would end up interworking with the 64 now, very shocked D&G won that, I presumed either Tanat, Minsterley or Lakeside would win that one.
On the page it says the 558 will be operated by ’New buses’ and the 64 by ’Over 5 years old’ buses

I wonder if the Hanley - Market Drayton section will survive, as only Shrewsbury - Market Drayton is subsidised
 

capitalpotter

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nonabrow

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18 Hanley - Leek

We operate this service on behalf of Staffordshire County Council and following contract renewal, Stantons of Stoke will be operating this service from Monday 29th June 2026.

Last day of service for D&G Bus will be Sunday 28th June.
Note that this is only the Sunday service as First operates it during the week. Nice to see Stantons gaining more tenders, a great company which deserves more praise.
 

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