£2 fare cap comes to Scotland:

[overthewater]

Why is it disgraceful that it's "become political"?

The thread has been political from the outset. Let's re-visit the opening post from last December:

It shouldn't boil down to Unionist or nationalist or what ever. Can we ever get past that point up here, That the main point here: People can't sperate party and Government. The SNP has been in Government for nearly 20 years... doesn't mater if there Unionist or nationalist the buck stops with the government of the day.

The 1st SNP administration wasn't know for being overly bus friendly at times they did muck up the old Bus route development grant, and also reduced the reimbursement rate paid to operators of the national entitlement card, for the past 20 years.

You've been very clear from the start you don't like this scheme, but when I asked in March what you didn't like, I got no reply. How do you know the scheme isn't well designed?

Please do share your suggestions for making the scheme better. Have you contacted one of your MSPs with these proposals? What did they say? It's easy to sit in your armchair and criticise, but you've so far failed to come up with any better suggestions.

Ive been very clear the scheme has issues from the start, and that its need alot of other factors to make it workable long term.

I said the Scheme was a rushed job, they give unresisted timeframe, they did mad rush to get the scheme started, and I will repeat this bit: It was started on this thread the Scottish government had announced the scheme and not even talked to the bus compaines yet ( it looks like history is repeating it's self) That like cart before the horse. Ember has so little time, they were still trying to fix the tickets sale days after it happened to have the correct value..

The announcement they give an impression they had at least spoke with stakeholders. GusB who lives in the local area didn't release the council routes were included after all, since there was newspaper piece they might not take part? Why has it not been easy for local people to get proper information about it?

There two side to this story:

A: Let be positive, they trying something which has to be good, no matter what.

B: They come out with an idea and rushed it so it looks like there trying to do something: It clear the scheme has issues, but hoping for the best isnt going to help anymore. ( they had oven ready scheme, which they could have taken from England)

Maybe it boils down the fact I can see stuff others can't and the others can see stuff I can't.

I did ask transport Scotland how will it "strengthen local bus services." Again as with someone else they skirted round the issue, saying it will give passengers cheaper fares which will help in cost of living crisis and also allow more people to use the buses as cheaper means of transport etc

How the scheme should have worked:

* Scottish Government announce the scheme: And states we will work with stakeholders to come up with timeframe to allow the scheme to be introduced at the earliest possible date. This makes it clear they about to speak with compaines and councils and have not give unrealistic timeframe.

* After the discussion make it crystal clear who is and who isn't taking part in the scheme, and how it will operate over the following year, outline all possible outcomes. ( Not doing this on the hope like current scheme) Make sure Compaines have enough time to reset there fare bookings to allow for this fare.

* Then Set out a long-term roadmap to help recruit drivers and buses and have monthly stock checks to see if there has been any REAL GROWTH on network. We're giving private company public money, is Scottish Govermernt getting any data?

We're still waiting to found out the actually impact of the Under22 scheme, it's all very well saying well 250million journeys have been taken from 2022-2025, However what impact has been made on those card holders staying with the bus network from the Age 23 onward? That will be the real test. Has there been a reduction in 17-25 year old taking Driver tests? Going by reports there been an increase, and large backlog, that does not give me confidence

• 301 million journeys were made by bus in 2022-23. This is an increase of 29 per cent on 2021-22. Almost a half of these were made under the National Concessionary Travel Scheme.
• 334 million journeys were made by bus in 2024-25. This is an increase of 2% on 2023-24. Over half of these were made under the National Concessionary Travel Scheme.
• Motor traffic also rose in 2024. The distance driven by motor vehicles on Scotland’s roads increased by 2% to 49.3 billion vehicle kilometres in 2024. This is slightly above the 2019 figure of 48.7 billion vehicle kilometres.

It appears around 10million more journeys have been made by Fare payers.. They not made it clear WHO made those extra trips? Is it passengers from Age 22 upwards? is it Car drivers who can no longer afford the car?

The £2 fare ( IF done correctly) is only one piece of a jigsaw that has to happen in conjection with other aspects of the bus network, including improving frequency's and more importantly new routes. Its all well and good having £2 fare but if you need to take 2-3 different buses to get somewhere that £12 already... that unlimited travel ticket starting to look better value..

£2 will only be the last resort if the bus travels take far too long.

 

[johncrossley]

Only some single journeys are £2, so this is misleading, just like the scheme in England. Single journeys that involve one change of bus cost £4, for example.

 

[GusB]

It shouldn't boil down to Unionist or nationalist or what ever. Can we ever get past that point up here, That the main point here: People can't sperate party and Government. The SNP has been in Government for nearly 20 years... doesn't mater if there Unionist or nationalist the buck stops with the government of the day.

You're right in that it shouldn't be a unionist vs nationalist argument and I honestly don't think anyone's saying that it is! The constitutional question has nothing to do with the subject but you're the one who brought it up! There do seem to be some double standards when the idea of a fare cap was first implemented in England (under a Conservative administration, no less!), yet when the Scottish Government implements a similar scheme it's all wrong (because SNPBaaaad, of course )!

How the scheme should have worked:

* Scottish Government announce the scheme: And states we will work with stakeholders to come up with timeframe to allow the scheme to be introduced at the earliest possible date. This makes it clear they about to speak with compaines and councils and have not give unrealistic timeframe.

* After the discussion make it crystal clear who is and who isn't taking part in the scheme, and how it will operate over the following year, outline all possible outcomes. ( Not doing this on the hope like current scheme) Make sure Compaines have enough time to reset there fare bookings to allow for this fare.

* Then Set out a long-term roadmap to help recruit drivers and buses and have monthly stock checks to see if there has been any REAL GROWTH on network. We're giving private company public money, is Scottish Govermernt getting any data?

I'm glad to see that you've finally put forward some constructive criticism!

In ideal world, yes it would have been better if the planning was a bit longer-term and I agree that there was a distinct lack of information at the very beginning. I wrote to Richard Lochhead, my MSP at the time, to ask if he was aware when the scheme would be rolled out in Moray and he was unable to provide me with a concrete date.

Let's not forget that this policy is also partly a reaction to the cost of living issues that we're currently facing and the government obviously wanted to be seen to be doing something quickly. In any case, even with the most meticulous planning you have to allow some flexibility for change. It's simply not possible to outline all possible outcomes as you suggest.

You're also ignoring the fact that the current scheme is a pilot and the whole point of a pilot scheme is to trial a particular product or service to see how successful (or not) it is before deciding to roll it out to the wider population.

As far as the recruitment of drivers and acquisition of buses is concerned, this is the responsibility of the bus companies rather than the government. Besides, there may not be any need for extra capacity; on many routes, particularly in the HiTrans area, it's simply a case of filling up the empty seats on the buses that do already exist.

The £2 fare ( IF done correctly) is only one piece of a jigsaw that has to happen in conjection with other aspects of the bus network, including improving frequency's and more importantly new routes. Its all well and good having £2 fare but if you need to take 2-3 different buses to get somewhere that £12 already... that unlimited travel ticket starting to look better value..

£2 will only be the last resort if the bus travels take far too long.

I agree that there isn't a single magic bullet and it has to be in conjunction with other measures. However, you're not going to improve frequencies and get more routes when buses are often running less than half-full on existing services.

Why is the scheme being trialled in the HiTrans area where the population is sparse? The obvious, more cynical, answer is that there will be fewer people to disappoint if the fare cap is eventually deemed not to be sustainable and is eventually withdrawn. There's also the issue that many routes in the area are tendered and are becoming increasingly expensive to run, while usage has been declining. Having a few more bums on seats might just be the difference between a route being viable or not. If some of that decline can be halted by encouraging some modal shift, so much the better.

To address your point about the unlimited travel ticket being better value, that may be the case for people who are making multi-leg journeys. On the other hand, having the £2 fare cap means that I don't have to buy an unlimited travel ticket when all I want is a simple out-and-back journey. It all depends on the individual situation, really. The best solution for this would be a tap/cap scheme, but that's a subject for a different thread.

Only some single journeys are £2, so this is misleading, just like the scheme in England. Single journeys that involve one change of bus cost £4, for example.

Not this again. It doesn't really matter whether you class two separate legs of a journey as one single or two single journeys; the point is that in many cases £4 will still be far cheaper than the combined cost of the two legs prior to the cap's introduction.

If I use the Stagecoach journey planner to find out times and fares for a trip to Inverness tomorrow, it is made abundantly clear that it's two separate single tickets at £2 each. Before the cap it would have cost me nearly five times that amount, so I'm still saving money and I'm certainly not being misled about anything.

Please stop nit-picking.

 

[johncrossley]

Not this again. It doesn't really matter whether you class two separate legs of a journey as one single or two single journeys; the point is that in many cases £4 will still be far cheaper than the combined cost of the two legs prior to the cap's introduction.

If I use the Stagecoach journey planner to find out times and fares for a trip to Inverness tomorrow, it is made abundantly clear that it's two separate single tickets at £2 each. Before the cap it would have cost me nearly five times that amount, so I'm still saving money and I'm certainly not being misled about anything.

Please stop nit-picking.

It may seem like a trivial thing but it is critical when it comes to integrated public transport. By charging more for a single journey that involves a change of bus you inevitably dissuade people from changing, further entrenching the belief that passengers don't want to change. But given that most trips cannot be carried out by direct bus it is essential that we get people to make journeys involving changes, otherwise you won't increase public transport modal share. Many if not most areas of Europe include changes as part of a single trip and slowly the UK is cottoning on. For example London and Manchester now have so-called "Hopper Fares".

 

[GusB]

It may seem like a trivial thing but it is critical when it comes to integrated public transport. By charging more for a single journey that involves a change of bus you inevitably dissuade people from changing, further entrenching the belief that passengers don't want to change. But given that most trips cannot be carried out by direct bus it is essential that we get people to make journeys involving changes, otherwise you won't increase public transport modal share. Many if not most areas of Europe include changes as part of a single trip and slowly the UK is cottoning on. For example London and Manchester now have so-called "Hopper Fares".

Give me strength...

I'm not talking about crossing vast urban areas like London or Manchester; I was talking about making a journey of more than 40 miles in a rural part of the country where there is no integration at all. It has always involved two separate journeys and in no way am I being discouraged from making such a journey because I have to pay for multiple single tickets.

I can't remember the exact prices but, prior to the cap being introduced, the combined single fares would have been well over £20, although if I was going out and back on the same day I would actually have opted for one of the DayRider tickets at £20.80 or £21.30. Now that same journey costs me 4x£2 - that's 38.5% of the cheaper Dayrider and 37.6% of the dearer one. It's not quite 3 days out for the price of 1, but it's not far off. In what way am I, or anyone else, being dissuaded from making that journey?

 

[johncrossley]

Give me strength...

I'm not talking about crossing vast urban areas like London or Manchester; I was talking about making a journey of more than 40 miles in a rural part of the country where there is no integration at all. It has always involved two separate journeys and in no way am I being discouraged from making such a journey because I have to pay for multiple single tickets.

I can't remember the exact prices but, prior to the cap being introduced, the combined single fares would have been well over £20, although if I was going out and back on the same day I would actually have opted for one of the DayRider tickets at £20.80 or £21.30. Now that same journey costs me 4x£2 - that's 38.5% of the cheaper Dayrider and 37.6% of the dearer one. It's not quite 3 days out for the price of 1, but it's not far off. In what way am I, or anyone else, being dissuaded from making that journey?

You may be talking about rural areas, but as I understand it, the idea is to eventually offer this deal across the whole country and therefore in urban areas as well, where most bus trips occur, where traffic problems are most acute and therefore where the issue of attracting people to public transport is most important.

 

[GusB]

You may be talking about rural areas, but as I understand it, the idea is to eventually offer this deal across the whole country and therefore in urban areas as well, where most bus trips occur, where traffic problems are most acute and therefore where the issue of attracting people to public transport is most important.

I'm talking about rural areas because it's where the pilot scheme is operating - it currently has no scope beyond the HiTrans area. While the idea is ultimately to offer the deal across the whole country, it won't be coming into effect in the short term.

You keep going on about hopper fares and, while I sort-of understand where you're coming from, I have questions as to how many people would actually use such fares in the first place.

Let's imagine that I lived in Edinburgh (within the city zone) and worked on the other side of town, a journey that required a change of buses there and back. A "single" journey is currently £2.40 (source:https://www.lothianbuses.com/fares-and-tickets/), so the two legs to get me to work would cost £4.80. It's highly unlikely that I'd go to work and not want to come home at the end of the day, so the total daily cost using single fares would be £9.60.

A cap on single fares at £2 would save me £1.60 for that day's travel - that'd make it £8. But the daily TapTapCap is £5.70, so why would I use singles in the first place? The weekly cap is £26.50. 4 journeys per day, five days a week at current single prices would be £48 and at the capped fare it would be £40. Either way, the existing multi-journey options are significantly cheaper than buying singles for each part of the journey.

The only people who are being penalised are those who make a one-way journey that requires one change of buses on the way, but even then those people are still saving a bit with the individual legs being capped at £2. Realistically, how many people does that affect?

Sorry John, but you've been far too used to the privileged position where it only costs you £1.75 to cover a fairly vast distance. It's about time that you removed your head from your arse the London bubble and made an effort to understand what it's like for the rest of us in the UK.

 

[johncrossley]

I'm talking about rural areas because it's where the pilot scheme is operating - it currently has no scope beyond the HiTrans area. While the idea is ultimately to offer the deal across the whole country, it won't be coming into effect in the short term.

You keep going on about hopper fares and, while I sort-of understand where you're coming from, I have questions as to how many people would actually use such fares in the first place.

Let's imagine that I lived in Edinburgh (within the city zone) and worked on the other side of town, a journey that required a change of buses there and back. A "single" journey is currently £2.40 (source:https://www.lothianbuses.com/fares-and-tickets/), so the two legs to get me to work would cost £4.80. It's highly unlikely that I'd go to work and not want to come home at the end of the day, so the total daily cost using single fares would be £9.60.

A cap on single fares at £2 would save me £1.60 for that day's travel - that'd make it £8. But the daily TapTapCap is £5.70, so why would I use singles in the first place? The weekly cap is £26.50. 4 journeys per day, five days a week at current single prices would be £48 and at the capped fare it would be £40. Either way, the existing multi-journey options are significantly cheaper than buying singles for each part of the journey.

The only people who are being penalised are those who make a one-way journey that requires one change of buses on the way, but even then those people are still saving a bit with the individual legs being capped at £2. Realistically, how many people does that affect?

Sorry John, but you've been far too used to the privileged position where it only costs you £1.75 to cover a fairly vast distance. It's about time that you removed your head from your arse the London bubble and made an effort to understand what it's like for the rest of us in the UK.

If a single in Edinburgh cost £2 whether you changed buses or not, then it would only cost £4 there and back, undercutting the current day ticket price of £5.70. Even at the current rate of £2.40 per single you would still save 90p on the £5.70 day ticket.

There are several reasons why you may not want to return the same day. For example, getting a lift back, getting a taxi back and going to the railway station or airport and coming back another day.

The issue is more important where you have multiple modes. In Britain, even in Scotland, it is common practice to charge separately for each mode. So in Glasgow it costs a lot more to get the bus to the station and then use the train, compared to train all the way or bus all the way. This is really where you need a single that allows interchange. Dublin have learned. They now have a single fare for EUR 2.00 that allows unlimited changes for 90 minutes on buses, trams and local trains.

Having a uniform single fare that allows interchange, covering the whole urban area means you can design efficient transport networks where more places have a frequent service by using feeder services instead of trying to connect everywhere to everywhere directly (which is impossible) using a complex web of low frequency buses. This is part of how certain European cities achieve high public transport modal share. You can technically do that without a proper integrated fare system but people will try and avoid changes if it costs more which artificially affects loadings.

London may have the headline grabbing £1.75 single bus fare, but that hides the fact that changing between buses and the tube/local trains costs a fortune. Some people might be prepared to sit on a bus for 2 hours to cross London, but a lot of people don't have the time for that and so need to use a rail based mode. Catching a bus to the tube station and then the tube (zones 1 to 3) costs £5.05 off-peak and £5.65 peak. Yes, you will probably end up on a cap anyway (for example, zones 1 to 3 cap is £10.50), but travellers who only use one mode typically don't reach the cap level. Overall, London has some of the highest fares in the world.

 

[ChrisC]

It may seem like a trivial thing but it is critical when it comes to integrated public transport. By charging more for a single journey that involves a change of bus you inevitably dissuade people from changing, further entrenching the belief that passengers don't want to change. But given that most trips cannot be carried out by direct bus it is essential that we get people to make journeys involving changes, otherwise you won't increase public transport modal share. Many if not most areas of Europe include changes as part of a single trip and slowly the UK is cottoning on. For example London and Manchester now have so-called "Hopper Fares".

Non of this applies, or is indeed relavent, to the £2 fare cap in mostly very rural areas of Scotland. In the same way it is of no use to most areas of England outside of London and some other large cities. If you live in a rural area, or even in many fairly large market towns there are no ”Hopper Fares”, or even fare caps or multi operator tickets available for many journeys. Having to do a journey involving a change of bus requires a fare, be it £2 or £3 for each leg of the journey.

To get to most places relatively quickly from where I live involves a change of bus resulting in it costing £12 for a return journey. That is without the disadvantages of many bus routes being only hourly at best, with no buses in the evenings or on Sunday. Before the £2 then £3 fare cap was introduced in England, the Stagecoach Day Rider here was £7.90, but it has now risen to £11.50! You cannot even save 50p if one of the buses is not operated by Stagecoach.

My local bus route takes a very long roundabout route between a large town at one end of the route and a city at the other. It serves lots of villages but journey times into the city from villages at the far end of the route are up to 90 minutes. There is an opportunity at one location to change to a faster bus but that will then require paying another £3 fare. Also if a bus is delayed and you miss a connection there is an hour to wait for the next bus.

You cannot compare travel and fares in London and large urban areas with other parts of the country which are less densely populated.

 

[Statto]

If a single in Edinburgh cost £2 whether you changed buses or not, then it would only cost £4 there and back, undercutting the current day ticket price of £5.70. Even at the current rate of £2.40 per single you would still save 90p on the £5.70 day ticket.

There are several reasons why you may not want to return the same day. For example, getting a lift back, getting a taxi back and going to the railway station or airport and coming back another day.

The issue is more important where you have multiple modes. In Britain, even in Scotland, it is common practice to charge separately for each mode. So in Glasgow it costs a lot more to get the bus to the station and then use the train, compared to train all the way or bus all the way. This is really where you need a single that allows interchange. Dublin have learned. They now have a single fare for EUR 2.00 that allows unlimited changes for 90 minutes on buses, trams and local trains.

Having a uniform single fare that allows interchange, covering the whole urban area means you can design efficient transport networks where more places have a frequent service by using feeder services instead of trying to connect everywhere to everywhere directly (which is impossible) using a complex web of low frequency buses. This is part of how certain European cities achieve high public transport modal share. You can technically do that without a proper integrated fare system but people will try and avoid changes if it costs more which artificially affects loadings.

London may have the headline grabbing £1.75 single bus fare, but that hides the fact that changing between buses and the tube/local trains costs a fortune. Some people might be prepared to sit on a bus for 2 hours to cross London, but a lot of people don't have the time for that and so need to use a rail based mode. Catching a bus to the tube station and then the tube (zones 1 to 3) costs £5.05 off-peak and £5.65 peak. Yes, you will probably end up on a cap anyway (for example, zones 1 to 3 cap is £10.50), but travellers who only use one mode typically don't reach the cap level. Overall, London has some of the highest fares in the world.

Do everyone a favour & stop trying to compare bus travel in London with outside London, it's annoying, nauseating & completely different, your comparing apples with oranges, outside London buses are less frequent [can be 30 minutes to hourly & longer in rural areas] & passengers are travelling to/from hubs.

 

[johncrossley]

Non of this applies, or is indeed relavent, to the £2 fare cap in mostly very rural areas of Scotland. In the same way it is of no use to most areas of England outside of London and some other large cities. If you live in a rural area, or even in many fairly large market towns there are no ”Hopper Fares”, or even fare caps or multi operator tickets available for many journeys. Having to do a journey involving a change of bus requires a fare, be it £2 or £3 for each leg of the journey.

To get to most places relatively quickly from where I live involves a change of bus resulting in it costing £12 for a return journey. That is without the disadvantages of many bus routes being only hourly at best, with no buses in the evenings or on Sunday. Before the £2 then £3 fare cap was introduced in England, the Stagecoach Day Rider here was £7.90, but it has now risen to £11.50! You cannot even save 50p if one of the buses is not operated by Stagecoach.

My local bus route takes a very long roundabout route between a large town at one end of the route and a city at the other. It serves lots of villages but journey times into the city from villages at the far end of the route are up to 90 minutes. There is an opportunity at one location to change to a faster bus but that will then require paying another £3 fare. Also if a bus is delayed and you miss a connection there is an hour to wait for the next bus.

You cannot compare travel and fares in London and large urban areas with other parts of the country which are less densely populated.

It is unclear to me whether you are complaining that you have to pay again when taking advantage of the English or Scottish fare cap, or whether you think that is a good thing.

You don't have to be in an urban area to benefit from not having to pay to change buses. For example, the Flemish region of Belgium (similar area to Northern Ireland) has a single fare for EUR 3.00 for unlimited changes within 60 minutes, or EUR 2.20 if you buy 10 tickets at once. That applies anywhere where they operate whether it is urban or rural, whether on bus or tram. That's obviously really cheap so arguably an extreme case, but if you look at transport authorities in Germany and Switzerland a single journey in their particular region usually allows interchange whether urban or rural, and usually allows train as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==

Do everyone a favour & stop trying to compare bus travel in London with outside London, it's annoying, nauseating & completely different, your comparing apples with oranges, outside London buses are less frequent [can be 30 minutes to hourly & longer in rural areas] & passengers are travelling to/from hubs.

There are plenty of big cities and larger towns in England and Scotland where the same principles could work given the chance. There are no big cities in Switzerland at all, yet that is considered to have the best public transport in Europe if not the world.

 

[AilsaBus]

It is unclear to me whether you are complaining that you have to pay again when taking advantage of the English or Scottish fare cap, or whether you think that is a good thing.

You don't have to be in an urban area to benefit from not having to pay to change buses. For example, the Flemish region of Belgium (similar area to Northern Ireland) has a single fare for EUR 3.00 for unlimited changes within 60 minutes, or EUR 2.20 if you buy 10 tickets at once. That applies anywhere where they operate whether it is urban or rural, whether on bus or tram. That's obviously really cheap so arguably an extreme case, but if you look at transport authorities in Germany and Switzerland a single journey in their particular region usually allows interchange whether urban or rural, and usually allows train as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==



There are plenty of big cities and larger towns in England and Scotland where the same principles could work given the chance. There are no big cities in Switzerland at all, yet that is considered to have the best public transport in Europe if not the world.

If you buy a ticket that allows unlimited changes within 60 minutes on a bus that takes over an hour or more to get to the point where you need to change buses, it renders that ticket pretty much useless.

 

[Statto]

If you buy a ticket that allows unlimited changes within 60 minutes on a bus that takes over an hour or more to get to the point where you need to change buses, it renders that ticket pretty much useless.

Particularly if your connecting bus is every 30 minutes or longer (20 minutes can be enough too if the connecting bus takes 45 minutes) which is the norm for many interurban routes in the UK.

 

[johncrossley]

If you buy a ticket that allows unlimited changes within 60 minutes on a bus that takes over an hour or more to get to the point where you need to change buses, it renders that ticket pretty much useless.

It's not perfect but arguably you have got a good deal if you have got one hour travel out of it. In other countries they give you more time to complete the journey the longer the distance but it won't be a flat fare.

 

[RT4038]

Non of this applies, or is indeed relavent, to the £2 fare cap in mostly very rural areas of Scotland. In the same way it is of no use to most areas of England outside of London and some other large cities. If you live in a rural area, or even in many fairly large market towns there are no ”Hopper Fares”, or even fare caps or multi operator tickets available for many journeys. Having to do a journey involving a change of bus requires a fare, be it £2 or £3 for each leg of the journey.

To get to most places relatively quickly from where I live involves a change of bus resulting in it costing £12 for a return journey. That is without the disadvantages of many bus routes being only hourly at best, with no buses in the evenings or on Sunday. Before the £2 then £3 fare cap was introduced in England, the Stagecoach Day Rider here was £7.90, but it has now risen to £11.50! You cannot even save 50p if one of the buses is not operated by Stagecoach.

My local bus route takes a very long roundabout route between a large town at one end of the route and a city at the other. It serves lots of villages but journey times into the city from villages at the far end of the route are up to 90 minutes. There is an opportunity at one location to change to a faster bus but that will then require paying another £3 fare. Also if a bus is delayed and you miss a connection there is an hour to wait for the next bus.

You cannot compare travel and fares in London and large urban areas with other parts of the country which are less densely populated.

I really do not understand what you are arguing with @johncrossley about? I think everybody knows that London (or indeed any big City) is not the same as the Highlands of Scotland. However, the advantages of having a Hopper fare, for passengers, is nonetheless just as valid.

I live in a semi-rural County not dissimilar to yours. There are four main towns (of a variety of sizes) and [over the border] abuts up to a Metropolitan City and has cross boundary routes to other nearby market towns. Each of those towns/City has educational facilities, retail park(s), hospitals, railway stations, some or all of which are in the suburbs (or at least a bus journey from the centre of town). Having to change buses in many cases (suburb/suburb or country/suburb journeys) is very off-putting to some, and having to pay a fare penalty doubly so to most; hence the requests / demands to provide a through bus from everywhere to everywhere.

I think a lot of people just do not consider the public transport option for these kinds of journeys (just blank them out of their mind as being too impracticable/inconvenient/costly); hence the impression that nobody actually wants to make them. I think there is a lot of unfulfilled demand there, the quantity of which is pretty much statistically unknown (judging by the number of enquiries/requests/complaints that are received, and that will be only the tip of the iceberg). I accept that having to change is a barrier, and that service frequencies in these towns and rural areas is never going to be enough to provide seamless trips everywhere.

I rather suspect that the issue with the posts of @johncrossley is that it seems anything that is done to improve the lot of public transport outside of London is never good enough - it must just be spend, spend, spend in the areas which have been starved of funds over the last 20 or more years compared to London, for which there is often no clear funding source. Walk before you can run and all that. Clearly a hopper fare in the provinces/nations is going to save some existing passengers a lot of money (either by reducing the number and value of tickets bought or by short distance riders using the hopper as a return). These passenger savings are at the cost of the operator or subsidising Authority (who have got to pay the bills), and are very difficult to quantify, so the risk does not want to be taken at the moment. Of course there may well be additional business generated, but this is speculative and will take time to materialise; in the meantime it has to be funded by someone with no clear view of the exposure.

If you buy a ticket that allows unlimited changes within 60 minutes on a bus that takes over an hour or more to get to the point where you need to change buses, it renders that ticket pretty much useless.

Well yes, but then such a long journey deserves to be more expensive? The return journey would still get the advantage.

 

[Volvodart]

Ember has a long article about the £2 bus fare cap including stating what the reimbursement mechanism is.

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A Better Way to Cut Bus Fares
The Scottish Government has been trialling a £2 bus fare cap in parts of Scotland since earlier this year. This has developed into an SNP manifesto commitment to roll out a similar scheme across the country.
This sounds simple and attractive. Many households are under pressure and bus fares are one of the costs people notice. Capping fares at £2 sounds like a good way to reduce the cost of living immediately and drive increased bus usage over the longer-term.
The problem is not the goal. The problem is the mechanism.

 

[Sealink]

Ember has a long article about the £2 bus fare cap including stating what the reimbursement mechanism is.

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It is an absolutely fascinating article. They know what they are talking about!

 

[The exile]

If you buy a ticket that allows unlimited changes within 60 minutes on a bus that takes over an hour or more to get to the point where you need to change buses, it renders that ticket pretty much useless.

I suggest you look at how these things actually work elsewhere. Typically, a multi mode urban ticket will be valid for changes within 60 minutes (with a shorter time limit, or no changes permitted for really short fares) whereas a larger outer zone ticket will be valid for changes up to 3 or 4 hours. The limits will vary by what is reasonable.

 

[overthewater]

As expected the Scottish Government has pushed out some promotion on Social Media saying it also planning a £2 bus fare cap But alas there is no meat on the bones, no proper date or clues when it will happen. All that has been said is Strathclyde will be next but when? Will the Highland and island pilot carry on aswell?

We are supporting people with the cost of living by expanding our £2 bus fare cap across Scotland.
The cap will go beyond the Highlands and Islands pilot, starting in the Strathclyde region.
Our nationwide £2 bus fare cap will ensure that more people can benefit from more affordable public transport.

 

[GusB]

As expected the Scottish Government has pushed out some promotion on Social Media saying it also planning a £2 bus fare cap But alas there is no meat on the bones, no proper date or clues when it will happen. All that has been said is Strathclyde will be next but when? Will the Highland and island pilot carry on as well?

Do you honestly expect the government to put every minute detail in a social media post?

Which social medium did you see this on? Would you post the link?

 

[davp]

As expected the Scottish Government has pushed out some promotion on Social Media saying it also planning a £2 bus fare cap But alas there is no meat on the bones, no proper date or clues when it will happen. All that has been said is Strathclyde will be next but when? Will the Highland and island pilot carry on aswell?

This was already in the public domain before today's announcement. It is reported that money is being made available to devolved nations as part of this initiative. It will be up to the Scottish Government to decide what to do, but I would be surprised if Scotland doesn't follow suit from January. I imagine it potentially solves a problem for them as someone else has found the money to pay for it.

 

[overthewater]

Do you honestly expect the government to put every minute detail in a social media post?

Which social medium did you see this on? Would you post the link?

Yes, especially when they trying be smart saying oh look were doing the same.

TWO days Andy been in office and and has been clear what his plan is, two days. Scottish Government is dragging its feet

https://www.facebook.com/TheScottishGovernment Should be the Second post down.

This was already in the public domain before today's announcement. It is reported that money is being made available to devolved nations as part of this initiative. It will be up to the Scottish Government to decide what to do, but I would be surprised if Scotland doesn't follow suit from January. I imagine it potentially solves a problem for them as someone else has found the money to pay for it.

So you think they might for Scotland wide scheme from January?

 

[davp]

Yes, especially when they trying be smart saying oh look were doing the same.

TWO days Andy been in office and and has been clear what his plan is, two days. Scottish Government is dragging its feet

https://www.facebook.com/TheScottishGovernment Should be the Second post down.



So you think they might for Scotland wide scheme from January?

That post relates to information already in the public domain. The manifesto commitment was to put legislation for a £2 bus cap in Scotland by the end of this Parliament - that's by 2031. They separately said they would prioritise some areas including Strathclyde. Today's announcement in England may well change that.

I don't know what they'll decide to do. It would be very quick for them to be announcing it so soon, but who knows. As I said earlier I think it's probable they will go for a £2 cap across Scotland from January too. But I have no inside knowledge.

 

[GusB]

Yes, especially when they trying be smart saying oh look were doing the same.

TWO days Andy been in office and and has been clear what his plan is, two days. Scottish Government is dragging its feet

https://www.facebook.com/TheScottishGovernment Should be the Second post down.



So you think they might for Scotland wide scheme from January?

There was criticism that the operators hadn't been properly consulted when the initial pilot was introduced, and further criticism when it was only rolled out in part of the pilot area. More criticism when ticket machines of a certain operator hadn't been configured to issue the relevant tickets.

Considering the amount of work that has to go on behind the scenes, maybe the government wants to make sure that everyone is on board and ready to go this time, before actually announcing the date - you know, actually learning from the mistakes that were made before.

However, the criticism will still fly no matter what happens; some people would still find cause to grumble if they were provided with a chauffeur-driven, gold-plated Rolls-Royce as personal transport.

Maybe you should stand for election - I hear that Labour is looking for a new leader at Holyrood now that "Andy" will be elevating Mr Sarwar!

 

[Deerfold]

As expected the Scottish Government has pushed out some promotion on Social Media saying it also planning a £2 bus fare cap But alas there is no meat on the bones, no proper date or clues when it will happen. All that has been said is Strathclyde will be next but when? Will the Highland and island pilot carry on aswell?

Do you not want them to plan properly before their full announcement?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2026 ==

Yes, especially when they trying be smart saying oh look were doing the same.

TWO days Andy been in office and and has been clear what his plan is, two days. Scottish Government is dragging its feet

https://www.facebook.com/TheScottishGovernment Should be the Second post down.



So you think they might for Scotland wide scheme from January?

Link to the post is https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19KVBpjrei/

(As it's now 6 posts down and will get harder to find from that link).

 

[HighlandStorm]

Do you not want them to plan properly before their full announcement?

You need to understand how this works.

£2 fare cap returns in England = Andy's only been in 3 days, he's amazing, look what Labour is doing for you.

£2 fare cap going to be expanded in Scotland = SNP Baaaaadddd!

 

[overthewater]

Wow, That's rebuttal? If it helps you I think there ALL BAD:

The Scottish Government announced this policy and hoped to have it going within 6 weeks without any prep and over xmas. There has yet to be a proper defence of there poor handling of this policy.

Why are we talking about it this week? Andy made an announcement, give a reason time line. The Scottish Gov HAD to get some attention saying look were doing the same, but forgot to say how and when. So what are people saying to the Lothian's having to wait up to 5 years for the policy? Go and look at newspaper and soical media, growing people are asking question. Will Strathclyde get £2 fare on 15 August? I suspect any reply will just be more of the = SNP Baaaaadddd!

 

[AilsaBus]

Wow, That's rebuttal? If it helps you I think there ALL BAD:

The Scottish Government announced this policy and hoped to have it going within 6 weeks without any prep and over xmas. There has yet to be a proper defence of there poor handling of this policy.

Why are we talking about it this week? Andy made an announcement, give a reason time line. The Scottish Gov HAD to get some attention saying look were doing the same, but forgot to say how and when. So what are people saying to the Lothian's having to wait up to 5 years for the policy? Go and look at newspaper and soical media, growing people are asking question. Will Strathclyde get £2 fare on 15 August? I suspect any reply will just be more of the = SNP Baaaaadddd!

Where precisley did the SNP state they hoped to have it going within 6 weeks? State a clear and official source with a link please.

 

[GusB]

Wow, That's rebuttal? If it helps you I think there ALL BAD:

The Scottish Government announced this policy and hoped to have it going within 6 weeks without any prep and over xmas. There has yet to be a proper defence of there poor handling of this policy.

Why are we talking about it this week? Andy made an announcement, give a reason time line. The Scottish Gov HAD to get some attention saying look were doing the same, but forgot to say how and when. So what are people saying to the Lothian's having to wait up to 5 years for the policy? Go and look at newspaper and soical media, growing people are asking question. Will Strathclyde get £2 fare on 15 August? I suspect any reply will just be more of the = SNP Baaaaadddd!

Actually, this was announced on 26th June this year, before Burnham became Prime Minister.

Plans set out to expand £2 bus fare cap across Scotland | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

To support people with the cost of living, plans to expand a £2 bus fare cap across Scotland have been set out by the Scottish Government.

Opening a debate on affordable bus fares, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport confirmed that work is now underway to extend the cap beyond the Highlands and Islands pilot, with early expansion planned for the Strathclyde region.

The Scottish Government’s commitment to a nationwide £2 bus fare cap will ensure that more people benefit from more affordable public transport.

Why did the ScotGov post it on Facebook just after Burnham made the announcement? Probably to reassure people in Scotland that a similar scheme will be coming to them and it's not just people in England that will benefit from it. It won't stop people complaining, though!

As for the timescale, it's not likely that anyone on the forum will be able to provide the answers; anyone who does have that information probably won't be at liberty to divulge details until the plans are ready to be announced.

In the meantime, have you either contacted the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport himself, or perhaps one of your local MSPs to ask if they have further information? I'd go there for answers before believing the newspapers (especially the Scotsman's transport correspondent) and social media.

 

[overthewater]

Where precisley did the SNP state they hoped to have it going within 6 weeks? State a clear and official source with a link please.

Again Were on about Scottish Government;

The Very first post in the thread: https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...-from-ps2-trial-bus-fare-cap-revealed-5450313
Dated 20th December 2025.

The start date has been officially announced, but the Scottish Greens said it would in late January.

The scheme was launch in Shetland six weeks later; https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/new...apped-at-2-from-today-as-part-of-trial-425883