Revenue blockades at stations NOT managed by their TOC

[scrapy]

that's a bit dodgy......Lancaster is an open station, the ticket office is on the other side of the station across the bridge, and besides the two main entrances there is an unguarded gate on platform 1 and another to the car park at the south end of P3. Anyone using those who needs a ticket is going to hit the block before getting a chance to buy a ticket. And what if you've just met someone off the train? Open station so no ticket

Generally the gate on platform 1 will be locked when these revenue blocks take place. The car park exit will usually be covered those stood by the lift/stairs. Ive seen them done mainly by northern (Carlisle) but with a couple of TPE staff as well. They are mainly targeting their own trains which stop away from the south end with the high amount of evasion from Preston and on peak time Morecambes. When Avanti trains pull in using the full platform, they simply get what they can in lost revenue from the pay when challenged lot.

 

[TUC]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

 

[LowLevel]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

It's at the discretion of the staff members in question whether to allow entry, same as with a ticket barrier.

 

[185143]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

"Hiya mate, am I alright to help my Mum onto the train?"

"Course you can. She's travelling to Edinburgh. *beep*"

5 minutes later.

"Hiya, just helped my Mum onto the train."

"Yep, no problem, have a nice day."

Or alternatively:

"Sorry, I can't let you through without a ticket, but I'll arrange assistance" Radio gets pulled out and a member of staff gets called to assist the passenger.

 

[P Binnersley]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel treat all Train Companies as a collective whole.

Condition 18 says 'a' train company, not the train company you are travelling with.

Acording to the NRCOT Introduction, you only have a contract with "some" train companies

When you buy a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National Rail Network you enter into a binding contract with each of the Train Companies whose trains your Ticket allows you to use.

(although you coud use GWR from Foregate Street to Shrub Hill on a Worcester-Birmingham ticket).

I think the byelaws are a better justification.

 

[CapabilityB]

There's a semi regular check by Northern when the Leeds via Harrogate service arrives into York. All runs very efficiently, they provide enough staff to make sure delay to customers is barely noticeable given they'd hit the bottleneck of the stairs a few meters beyond anyway.

I welcome it, it's proven to generate revenue and help with subsidy reduction, which is just what the railway needs at the moment.

 

[Farang]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

TFL were conducting a revenue block at my local station. I wanted to enter to use the ticket machine to top up an Oyster. I explained and he let me through.

 

[Bevan Price]

It is probably because GWR have a fare evasion problem between Evesham and Worcester. The last few times I have been that way there have been revenue checks on the train catching several people (and further people hiding out in toilets etc).

Probably due to layout constraints, but Worcester Shrub Hill/Foregate not being gated surprises me. Especially given other similar stations are gated.

Yes at Worcester Foregate Street, the long steep staircases between ground level and platforms could become a safety hazard if long queues develop due to slow operation of barriers.

 

[DesDobramento]

Not completely the same situation, but a few weeks ago LNWR platform staff at Euston p. 8-11 had closed every barrier on the gateline supposedly to help with crowds while awaiting a late arriving train (this just caused more trouble as when the train arrived people couldn't leave the gateline well as people were waiting in front of it), and for ages would not let passengers get through to catch the LO train.

Surprised yesterday by a manual exit check at Euston for all passengers leaving the arrival of the 0940 from Glasgow, despite a diligent on-train ticket check south of the last station call (Coventry).

 

[DarloRich]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

you say: Excuse me, I need to meet my elderly mother off the train and help her with her bags. Would you mind letting me through?

Just be polite and there will be no issue. I have never had a problem in those circumstances. The worst I have had is being asked to hang on a minute while the police dealt with someone who got uppity/lippy!

 

[FinsburyPark]

What happens at stations like Lockerbie, it's owned by Scot Rail but no Scot Rail services stop there.

 

[AlterEgo]

What happens at stations like Lockerbie, it's owned by Scot Rail but no Scot Rail services stop there.

If it's blocked it will be by Avanti or TPE if there is such agreement.

 

[Starmill]

Thameslink revenue on the Luton - Rainham is conducted by SE between London Bridge and Rainham and I believe on the Blackfriars - Sevenoaks but may be wrong. It’s not common in these parts unless mob handed

I think this does still happen. This is more unusual in that it specifically includes on train ticket checks.

 

[Acathater]

Never knew there was an entrance from P1 although haven't looked either tbh.

It's a gap in the palisade fence just by the buffers. Leads into the Giant Axe field

 

[Millisle]

What happens at stations like Lockerbie, it's owned by Scot Rail but no Scot Rail services stop there.

I have never known an in inspection at Lockerbie in 43 years of frequent use.

 

[Tetchytyke]

What's the approach at revenue blocks where a passenger without a ticket wishes to enter the station for a legitimate reason, such as to meet and assist a disabled passenger disembarking, or just to help someone with heavy luggage?

Just ask nicely. I’ve never ever had an issue, including at the likes of Manchester Piccadilly P13/14.

 

[185143]

Just ask nicely. I’ve never ever had an issue, including at the likes of Manchester Piccadilly P13/14.

Exactly. It's not difficult!

"Tickets please?"

"I'm not travelling, my 90 year old Mum is on the train due from Glasgow in 5 minutes."

"No problem. Come back to me and I'll let you both straight out."

Or: "I've left my bag on the train from Liverpool yesterday, they said Lost Property is this way?"

"Yes, head along this platform and it's on the right."

I'd imagine conversations like that go on at gatelines and revenue blocks multiple times a day!

If someone is regularly coming up with a story, and regularly disappearing, then they can take it further. And presumably often do.

If it's a Compulsory Ticket Area, then platform tickets will presumably be available? If not, then on you go.

 

[david l]

Regular blocks at Wigan NW by Northern (before Avanti put the barriers in and the 'emergency exit' was properly set up.
Also at Preston -but tended to be on platforms 1 & 2 - and sometimes the subway.

 

[BurtonM]

I'm guessing NR managed stations don't count. Northern have their perpetual block on the travelators at Manchester Piccadilly.

Have Northern ever done a block on Stalybridge - I think so but can't recall for certain. However I'm sure that there have been TOC-specific revenue blocks there on P4/5, where inspectors were checking one TOC's passengers and letting the other's pass through.

 

[FinsburyPark]

So are all TOCs seen as one entity in law for revenue protection purposes?

This would mean in theory RP's from Northern could run a Blockade at Bournemouth (a SWR station).

I've picked an over the top (never going to happen) example to get an idea of how the process works in a matter of law.

 

[Dr Day]

There are probably numerous examples where an 'InterCity' TOC, say Avanti, manage a station but are comfortable enough protecting their own revenue through on-board checks on their own trains with plenty of time between stations for somene to go through. Other TOCs, such as Northern or TfW may serve the same station with busier, frequently stopping services where they don't have a chance to check on-board hence station revenue blocks provide a means of protecting *their* revenue.

This may all change under GBR, but I would still expect for accounting purposes there will be some sub-division of revenue, and of course TfL, Merseyrail, TfW etc will still keep all *their* revenue separately so may continue to have a vested interest in carrying out their own blocks at their own expense at stations shared with GBR.

 

[AlterEgo]

So are all TOCs seen as one entity in law for revenue protection purposes?

This would mean in theory RP's from Northern could run a Blockade at Bournemouth (a SWR station).

I've picked an over the top (never going to happen) example to get an idea of how the process works in a matter of law.

Correct.

 

[TreacleMiller]

LNER manage Doncaster station but Northern sometimes do a revenue block at the top of the stairs as you exit onto the station forecourt. When I've been there they've only done it at the top of one of the two staircases.

Yeah this is quite frequent. Its been interesting to explain to them what a box card is for staff travel on occasion.

 

[chris53]

I’ve seen them a couple of times this year. Always on the northbound side (forget the platform number). They block the exit from the platform out to the taxi rank/shop/footbridge/lifts.

Always Northern I’ve seen.

I assume it’s done due to the short distance between Preston and Lancaster

I almost always exit the other side by the station near the castle, not entirely sure why, just prefer it

 

[Adlenviro]

How bizarre! I wonder what he was so afraid of.

You would be amazed the amount of staff in all industries that are found on social media due to names being on badges and ID cards. All a customer needs to know is a number for your employee to identify you, like PSV badges were for with bus drivers in the good old days.

 

[scrapy]

So are all TOCs seen as one entity in law for revenue protection purposes?

This would mean in theory RP's from Northern could run a Blockade at Bournemouth (a SWR station).

I've picked an over the top (never going to happen) example to get an idea of how the process works in a matter of law.

In theory a TOC does have to ask permission of the TOC managing the station, however this cannot reasonably be refused especially when a TOC serves that station.

Station safety remains the responsibility of the managing TOC so they may stipulate things like the location of revenue blocks to prevent crowding and to maintain disabled access.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have had an incident with GwR revenue working at a tfl operated station not recognising that bus drivers and controllers are allowed to walk on a platform to use the toilets and lying about staff members getting off trains.

I was tempted to file a grievance as I lost my lunch break because of it

 

[Pinus contorta]

It's a gap in the palisade fence just by the buffers. Leads into the Giant Axe field

It is occasionally closed . I find it an easy way to get out of the station onto the castle park west road way into the city off the Barrow / Corkickle trains.

So what's the score with the station egress when you can get to the tite and lock ( and in the future) the curry place?

 

[redreni]

All revenue blocks at Network Rail-managed stations would fall under the heading in the thread title, I suppose, since afaik Network Rail isn't doing them.

I've also seen Southeastern RPIs on Thameslink trains between London Bridge and Rainham.