Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Nicholas Lewis]

I caught 810010 from Kettering this afternoon. It was already 30 late due to technical issues. Apparently only running on 2 (from 4) engines. This meant no USB power and bizarrely the coffee machine wouldn't work either.
When it got to Corby the doors wouldn't open. Another 5 or so minutes delay. It then avoided Leicester in an attempt to recover time. However when it got to Long Eaton the doors wouldn't open again. Another 2 minute delay.
When we got to Derby a set swap had been arranged so we all alighted and marched down the platform to a replacement set (011) which was standing further forward on the same platform.
That then set off and nothing out of the ordinary occurred until we got to Sheffield when the doors of this set wouldn't open either. After a few minutes release came. It was meant to form the 18.00 back to St Pancras but still suffered a technical fault. There then followed a points failure at Ambergate so it wasn't clear what was still causing the delay when my northern train left at 19.05.

So as usual for all the fault free running modern trains get they never survive first contact with passengers. In yonder years a couple of prototypes would have been built first and once they have satisfied the core requirements on safety of the train they were just put into use with travelling fitters to deal with issues. Flush out the problems find fixes and build into the production run.

 

[Mugby]

That then set off and nothing out of the ordinary occurred until we got to Sheffield when the doors of this set wouldn't open either. After a few minutes release came. It was meant to form the 18.00 back to St Pancras but still suffered a technical fault. There then followed a points failure at Ambergate so it wasn't clear what was still causing the delay when my northern train left at 19.05.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. There was an infrastructure problem but EMR are very well versed in dealing with such events and diverting via alternative lines, it's a matter of routine to them so why was 011 held at Sheffield for an hour and a half. Particularly when Hitachi people were inspecting each carriage, it suggested there was an additional issue which wasn't mentioned.

 

[duffield]

The fact that Hitachi still seems to be incapable of getting the doors to work reliably after all this time may point to a fundamental design issue with them, which does not bode well.

 

[superkev]

The fact that Hitachi still seems to be incapable of getting the doors to work reliably after all this time may point to a fundamental design issue with them, which does not bode well.

Have Hitachi changed there door supplier from previous 8xx trains?
K

 

[duffield]

Have Hitachi changed there door supplier from previous 8xx trains?
K

AFAIK The doors are a completely new design due to the squashed/compact nature of the coach ends. This is why I'm concerned the design is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Amos390]

AFAIK The doors are a completely new design due to the squashed/compact nature of the coach ends. This is why I'm concerned the design is fundamentally flawed.

Hasn’t there been talk here in the past of litter left by people getting trapped in the running treads of the doors along the floor and jamming up the system or something? If so then surely that’s one major oversight. Presuming theres also electrical issues baked in there to deal with too right?

 

[duffield]

Hasn’t there been talk here in the past of litter left by people getting trapped in the running treads of the doors along the floor and jamming up the system or something? If so then surely that’s one major oversight. Presuming theres also electrical issues baked in there to deal with too right?

It seems to be happening far too often to be random occurrences of litter just happening to be in the wrong place. I don't remember ever seeing much litter lying around in the vestibules. But that's just my perception, I could be wrong.

 

[dosxuk]

There sounds to be a lot of cases of doors failing to release, which would be odd to be caused by things trapped in the runners - you'd expect that to cause problems with closing, not opening.

I seem to be remember there was another new design introduced years back which had problems with doors when there was any element of cant. They'd work perfectly in the depot / factory, but as soon as they were out in the real world they had problems all over the place. Took a fair while to design out the issue IIRC but it was sorted and they're now reliable.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Got my first ever ride on an 810 earlier, 11.05 from Leicester as far as Kettering (Via Corby this weekend)
Good points:-
Good legroom,
Pleasant inside, not overly loud engine noise, acceleration no worse than a 222, seats OK, arrived early at Corby and Kett, 810s don't seem to be speed restricted as much as 222s on this route

Cons:- as others have mentioned the air con is really loud and it is! Everything else is pretty good. On diesel leaving both Corby and Kett due to some engineering reasons I presume.

All in all a pretty good train, just need them to get more reliable, also multiple working will help as this train was busy.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There sounds to be a lot of cases of doors failing to release, which would be odd to be caused by things trapped in the runners - you'd expect that to cause problems with closing, not opening.

I seem to be remember there was another new design introduced years back which had problems with doors when there was any element of cant. They'd work perfectly in the depot / factory, but as soon as they were out in the real world they had problems all over the place. Took a fair while to design out the issue IIRC but it was sorted and they're now reliable.

That was the case when the 170s were introduced on Midland Main Line, coincidentally.

 

[Amos390]

Got my first ever ride on an 810 earlier, 11.05 from Leicester as far as Kettering (Via Corby this weekend)
Good points:-
Good legroom,
Pleasant inside, not overly loud engine noise, acceleration no worse than a 222, seats OK, arrived early at Corby and Kett, 810s don't seem to be speed restricted as much as 222s on this route

Cons:- as others have mentioned the air con is really loud and it is! Everything else is pretty good. On diesel leaving both Corby and Kett due to some engineering reasons I presume.

All in all a pretty good train, just need them to get more reliable, also multiple working will help as this train was busy.

I definitely agree with all these points, when given all greens and not breaking down, the 810s perform very well, however I also don't like how you can feel the pressure changing as the doors open and close, makes my ears go pop, and was something picked up on by the other people I travelled with. I also like how you can hardly notice the changeover from diesel to electric, just a slight rumble under the seat and that's all really.

 

[londonmidland]

however I also don't like how you can feel the pressure changing as the doors open and close, makes my ears go pop, and was something picked up on by the other people I travelled with.

There’s definitely some weird pressure change going on with the 810s. I noticed it when on a fast service from Nottingham to Leicester.

Strangely, I haven’t had this issue on the other 80x series trains.

 

[Mugby]

There’s definitely some weird pressure change going on with the 810s. I noticed it when on a fast service from Nottingham to Leicester.

Strangely, I haven’t had this issue on the other 80x series trains.

Actually, when 011 arrived at Derby on Saturday evening, I was standing right by the door waiting for the 'Open' button to light up.
Suddenly, the door seemed to be forced outwards by about half an inch, as if someone or something had given it a mighty whack. It immediately settled back into it's true alignment and the release lit up after about ten seconds.
I can only conclude that this strange phenomenon was caused by some sudden interior pressure change, something which hadn't occurred to me until I read the last couple of posts. Next time I travel on one, I'll try to be at the door when the train stops at a station to see if it recurs.

 

[Bald Rick]

Assuming 810s have the same principles of operation (albeit different design) to all the other 800 seroes and the 395s, there is a cam which pushes the door inwwrds against the seal just after closure / moving off, and this releases just before opening. This causes the door to move in/out a little.

 

[43055]

Assuming 810s have the same principles of operation (albeit different design) to all the other 800 seroes and the 395s, there is a cam which pushes the door inwwrds against the seal just after closure / moving off, and this releases just before opening. This causes the door to move in/out a little.

Yes this still happens on a 810.

 

[fgwrich]

Assuming 810s have the same principles of operation (albeit different design) to all the other 800 seroes and the 395s, there is a cam which pushes the door inwwrds against the seal just after closure / moving off, and this releases just before opening. This causes the door to move in/out a little.

Very much this, it’s a standard piece of Hitachi kit used across their high speed designs and I believe originated with one of the Shinkansen designs.

 

[Merle Haggard]

810011 17 minutes overtime at Leicester on 1C11 this morning, I guess door problems.

 

[Amos390]

810011 17 minutes overtime at Leicester on 1C11 this morning, I guess door problems.

Another day another 810011 failure

 

[1D54]

Another day another 810011 failure

But it is currently working 1D43 STP - NOT.

 

[liamf656]

Another day another 810011 failure

It's not failed, it's still out in service

 

[800001]

It's not failed, it's still out in service

I think the poster was meant to comment 'fault' not 'failure'.

 

[Amos390]

I think the poster was meant to comment 'fault' not 'failure'.

Yeah that’s the one, thanks

 

[QSK19]

Another day another 810011 failure

But it is currently working 1D43 STP - NOT.

I’m on it literally now - all seems in order.

 

[liamf656]

I think the poster was meant to comment 'fault' not 'failure'.

Either that or they can tell the future, 1D43 cancelled at Leicester now

 

[Trainman40083]

I had a reasonable run from Derby to London St Pancras this morning, with 810016. I decided not to go double or quits, and caught a Class 91 hauled Leeds train out of Kings Cross instead

 

[43096]

It's not failed, it's still out in service

That depends on your definition of a failure. If it has incurred delay minutes over a certain threshold due to a fault it counts as a failure for reporting purposes.

 

[QSK19]

810011 is showed on RTT as having been cancelled at Leicester. I got off there and, apart from a driver change, nothing looked untoward. Admittedly, I left the platform before the train set off, but I can’t recall passengers being detrained.

 

[Amos390]

810011 is showed on RTT as having been cancelled at Leicester. I got off there and, apart from a driver change, nothing looked untoward. Admittedly, I left the platform before the train set off, but I can’t recall passengers being detrained.

Definitely been cancelled now - M8 ‘Problems with the Train’

 

[Richard Scott]

That depends on your definition of a failure. If it has incurred delay minutes over a certain threshold due to a fault it counts as a failure for reporting purposes.

Thought a delay of 10 minutes or more was considered a failure? Doesn't have to totally sit down and need rescuing to count as a failure.

 

[liamf656]

That depends on your definition of a failure. If it has incurred delay minutes over a certain threshold due to a fault it counts as a failure for reporting purposes.

Thought a delay of 10 minutes or more was considered a failure? Doesn't have to totally sit down and need rescuing to count as a failure.

As far as I'm aware (although someone correct me if I am wrong), the railway recognises the term 'failure' if a train needs removing from a service, either terminating short at a station or if the unit has sat down out of course and needs rescuing or evacuating