That's interesting to know. TfL must have added TPE's Operator ID to their back-office quite recently.
On that note, are Northern / ScotRail smartcards still 'off the list'?
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Why I avoid e-tickets
- Thread starter Belperpete
- Start date
On that note, are Northern / ScotRail smartcards still 'off the list'?
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Wallsendmag
Established Member
Given the cost of onboarding with TfL I’m surprised that they did that.
Haywain
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My thoughts too.
xotGD
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While that is the demarcation at the gateline (stick it in the slot v waggle in the air), I think the divide between paper in your wallet and file on your phone is more significant.
From another thread:
The choice is increasingly going to be between having your own PDF Aztec ticket - which you can optionally back up to another device and/or print your own copy - or a till roll style Aztec ticket.
Either way, magstripe technology is costly to maintain and is rightly being phased out.
Except, with a paper ticket, there is no backup. E-tickets can be backed up easily.
CCST tickets are being discontinued; paper tickets are increasingly being issued on paper roll (similar to "till roll" paper) stock with barcodes. The new style paper tickets are of poor quality and fade easily.
The choice is increasingly going to be between having your own PDF Aztec ticket - which you can optionally back up to another device and/or print your own copy - or a till roll style Aztec ticket.
Either way, magstripe technology is costly to maintain and is rightly being phased out.
In that case, when travelling alone, you may want to print a copy of the ticket. When travelling in a group, all members of the group can have their own copy of all tickets, which could be presented by the person with the least luggage.
Exactly the same argument could be made about losing a paper ticket. People can and do lose paper tickets, have wallets stolen, etc.
Except, with a paper ticket, there is no backup. E-tickets can be backed up easily.
It's more a case of companies such as Northern not wanting to give a warm glow about train travel; they see passengers as there to be exploited for the maximum amount possible, and as potential criminals. This behaviour is encouraged by the DfT.
But an e-ticket can be a piece of paper in your wallet if you choose to print it out. And some ToD is printed as a barcode on paper rather than CCST.
The railway has realised more than before that you are on the train because you have no reasonable alternative. TOCs have caught up with bus companies in this area, customer service isn't necessary because few are choosing the train for reasons other than it's a journey they had to make with no other option, or the other options are even worse.
Hence the focus on London for the entirety of the railway's history. It's almost impossible to get to/around by any other mode, and is appealing to enough people that many still want to go.
trainophile
Established Member
Just two points relevant to Yorkie’s post above - I don’t have access to a printer, and losing a paper ticket is unlikely to be as costly as breaking a £600+ iPhone.
However I do take on board about CCST being discontinued anyway at some point, which is a bridge I will cross when I come to it!
However I do take on board about CCST being discontinued anyway at some point, which is a bridge I will cross when I come to it!
Do you have an iPhone? If you do then I'm not sure of the relevance here?
trainophile
Established Member
Well yes I do, hence not wanting to risk dropping it and possibly having to replace it.
Must be tough to never use the phone if you're so worried about dropping it all the time.
Scotrail smart cards definitely do not work in England at all. The only TVMs that seem to work with them are the c2c ones, but even then the NR barriers couldn't read a standard anytime day single on a Scotrail smartcard. The issue seems to be that they use a different back office.
I'll try the Northern smartcard at some point. Pretty sure Northern uses the RDG back office so it should be fine.
trainophile
Established Member
Did you miss my point about juggling with luggage in one or both hands while trying to keep the ticket display from timing out while queuing at the barriers? I also find the angle at which you have to place the phone on the scanner can be awkward.
I have no objection whatsoever to showing an e-ticket when I’m sat on a train, it’s either end of the journey that I’m apprehensive about.
Okay I’ll drop it now (no pun intended!).
Haywain
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That is definitely the case.
xotGD
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I don't have a printer at home, so I would always have to ensure that I bought tickets no later than my last day in the office before I needed to travel. While this is often the case, it isn't always.
Also, an A4 sheet is a bit more of a faff than a CCST (or even a bog roll ticket) to keep in your wallet.
Print it out CCST size. I have done before.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or cut it out, which gives you an e-ticket in a size that fits the notes part of your wallet.
You do know that you can adjust screen time out times, or that it takes most people only a few seconds to point their ticket at the barrier?
I suggest changing the lock time (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph7117338a8/ios).
Does your phone have a case?
Also, have you considered the possibility of purchasing a printer and/or a spare phone/tablet?
If your phone is very expensive and easily damaged, then having a spare phone/tablet may be a wise move. Did you have an phone before this? If ait still works, then you could use that at barriers to avoid worrying about breaking your new one.
By all means don't use any of the options to have a backup of an e-ticket, but if you lose your paper tickets, then no backup is possible and you would need to buy replacement tickets.
I'm sure the proportion of occasions of paper tickets that get lost/misplaced/stolen must be higher than occasions of phones breaking due to juggling luggage.
From this discussion, it appears that some users of this forum, as compared to the general population, are disproportionately likely to:
a) lose their phone
b) drop their phone
c) not have back-up set to recover any items on a lost/broken phone
d) have a very old phone
e) have difficulty pointing the phone to the reader at the ticket barrier
f) take a long time to find where on the phone their ticket is stored.
a) lose their phone
b) drop their phone
c) not have back-up set to recover any items on a lost/broken phone
d) have a very old phone
e) have difficulty pointing the phone to the reader at the ticket barrier
f) take a long time to find where on the phone their ticket is stored.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wonder if this is related to the likely age demographic of a forum (given that a lot of young people don't use fora, but instead use Instagram and the likes).
My parents are certainly more likely to do all of those (in their 70s) than I am in my 40s. Though equally someone in their early 20s might be more likely too given the lack of risk appreciation at that age.
My parents do however use e-tickets where possible (though that's not often possible because most of their journeys start on Merseyrail), but they print them out (2 copies I believe). They are certainly not technophobes, but unlike me they didn't grow up with tech.
Of course in 30 years' time there will be basically nobody alive who didn't grow up with tech in some form, even if that was a ZX-81. In 50, almost nobody will be alive who didn't grow up with mobile phones. That will promote a bit of a shift here.
Haywain
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Or is it just that some posters who are implacably opposed to eTickets just need to find lots of excuses to justify their choices?
pitdiver
Established Member
As an ex TfL employee who holds a PTAC I haven't got the option of etickets. It's good old ccst or prt.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Clearly if e-tickets aren't offered for your use case you have to use paper. I have to use paper for anything via London unless I split (which is sometimes cheaper but often not). I would rather I didn't have to.
Or, even simpler, Google and Apple Wallet won't turn off the screen while you're showing a pass anyway.
Haywain
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They also won't rotate the image so it disappears of the edge of the screen.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Apple Wallet (Google may also) also ups the brightness on passes so they are easier to read by a device.
It is very much the best way to use e-tickets.
Wallsendmag
Established Member
Who told you that? You can walk into any LNER ticket office and get an eTicket
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And very soon a ticket in a phone wallet will turn off NFC so avoiding card clash.
Haywain
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It hadn't occurred to me before, but a couple of times I've had problems paying with GooglePay when I've had an eTicket open in the Wallet. Perhaps that explains it.